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If this is true, it's the smothering death for pinball in the eu.
(Topic ID: 281397)
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Quoted from Faust:I doubt the pinball manufacturers will mind; if only 15% is export and export drops with 40-50% then Gary Stern’s 5000 games backlog shrinks just with a tiny bit hehe
Do you honestly think half of the orders will stick at an extra 25% cost?
I dont.
I wonder if the norwegian pinball market will still be available. Granted it´s currently locked down due to covid, but atleast before that you could buy used games in norway and transport to sweden with no taxation.
Sadly JJP doesn´t have a distro in norway, but stern does.
Maybe it´s a viable option unpacking games there and sell as used.
Quoted from Faust:You mean it will be much higher or much lower? For me the tax is too high and I’m the typical LE buyer. So I guess then that for premium and pro buyers it will be a big no
I think it will be much lower, would you buy a new gnr-le if the price suddenly was bumped up to ce-level, knowing it might normalize in a couple of months
Quoted from nicoy3k:What % stern sales are to the EU?
I dont know what it was, but after the new taxation it should be really close to 0%
Quoted from BMHouze:My NiB is day to day for arriving.
US dollar is 1.30
Looks like the same thing here.
Pinball is not dead here, not by far.
This years pins may end up being a bit rarer in EU.
I ordered in late June, this could be the catch up they need.
A bit?
You do realise europe has 20-25% sales tax. Add another 25% eu tax.
Basically it means a jjp le will end up about 15k usd a collector ed gnr will go well above 20k dollars.
Honestly i'd be surprised if eu reach 10% of normal sales.
Quoted from BMHouze:Mine will be close to 13K for my 8K pin
Are you talking about different currencies with different numeric values?
In that case mine will be 150k.
Quoted from PeterG:I would still like to challenge item 7 of this regulation. I think europe is substantially dependent for its supply of pinballs from the US.
[quoted image]
Yea, obviously. Unless they argue dutch pinball can provide all nib-needs.
What are they producing? Two games a week?
However i dont think a single elite in brussels give a fuck about other people.
Quoted from cybevenom:i ordered a GNR LE in the first week and am still torn on how to act when it arrives. It all boils down to wether if i am willing to miss out on this game or not. Sure there will be 5000 made but i have no idea on how long this bullshit will go on. I let go of my fairly new Iron Maiden premium in order to have the money for this one so that says alot of how much i like this game. And for now i am at the point of taking the hit if it really comes to it since i have been looking forward to this game. Not happy about the situation but missing out on my #1 game JJP POTC because of a completely other clusterfuck taught me one thing. Jump on it if you really really want it. And can afford it (even if barely).
I understand the reasoning. It's just biting me really hard giving eu an extra 3000 dollar.
I aint willing to do that.
Quoted from rodclemen:I ordered a pinball machine from Norway a few days ago (avengers: IQ) and that got stopped in customs because they want the extra tariff so it doesn't matter when the machines left the US, it applies to all machines regardless.
just as you thought 2020 couldn't get any worse.
Get a norwegian friend to buy it and then collect it there.
Or rather if you dont want to smuggle it, buy it from the friend as used.
Quoted from NeilMcRae:just to check though an import from Norway to Denmark should be:
25% Import Duty Tariff
25% Value added tax (sales tax)
Are you paying 50% more? if not then you got off lightly!
As it stands you can buy used pinball machines in norway and just transport them to sweden. There is no customs on pinball machines.
If you buy new from norway, i'd guess the same applies, you're not paying 25% vat in both countries.
So, to my understanding, you can buy nib in norway, but then you have to smuggle it across the border, which is nothing since there are litterally thousands of unguarded crossings.
If you can unpack it in norway and have a friendly norwegian attest to you, that you've bought a used machine, you dont have to worry about customs at all.
Quoted from cybevenom:Well today the hammer dropped for the German prices from my distributor from which i ordered my GNR LE in October:
I recieved an email today with the following changes to their prices.
Old prices:
Standard Edition 7.457,14€ incl. 16% VAT (6428,57€ netto)
Limited Edition 9.991,60€ incl. 16% VAT (8.613,45€ netto)
Collectors Edition 13.500,84€ incl. 16% VAT (11.638,66€ netto)
revised prices after 25% EU theft and reinstated VAT to 19% per 1-1-2021( it was temporarilly lowered to 16%):
Standard Edition 9.490€ incl. 19 VAT (7.974,79€ netto)
Limited Edition 12.790€ incl. 19% VAT (10.747,90€ netto)
Collectors Edition 16.990€ incl. 19% VAT (14.277,31€ netto)
So here is something to think about for me this weekend.
That is just not doable.
European pinball will come to a standstill.
Quoted from rai:The EU retaliation tariff are (I think) due to US tariff on wine, cheese etc. the rationale was that EU was subsidizing Airbus that hurt Boing. It was affirmed that EU was subsidizing Airbus so it’s not as if US just started throwing tariffs for no reason.
I will agree that these things should be negotiated away but there has to be some sort of rules or else some company like Airbus would have an unfair advantage.
However it’s true that many US companies get tax breaks for example so I’m not sure how it’s all decided who is playing fair and who isn’t.
A lot of companies get help from government such as banks when they need bailout or drug companies get money for vaccine research. It’s not all clear to me what is acceptable and what is unreasonable (maybe Airbus subsidies are unreasonable).
I’m just saying it’s not all US fault, I mean there was a cause of why the US put its tariff on imported wine etc.
I dont think there has been any blame on the us specific.
If this is all part of production and competition for production between us and eu, it´s seriously odd, that it´s affecting pinball, since there is no, or almost no production in the eu.
Quoted from andrewket:100% this. This is what I expect the pin manufacturers will do - remove the coin doors.
Remove coin mech and use the money to paint the "service door"
I for one would like a gnr le with a cinnamon door plz.
1 week later
Quoted from metallik:Right there. It's deliberately vague to be all-encompassing. And for the SS/EMs:
It´s completely puzzling, we dont hear anything from the companies. Stonewall.
They dont care?
European customers and that part of their economy so miniscule?
You think companies like jjp and stern would have lawyers all over this by now?
1 week later
Quoted from Manny65:We get a similar thing here is Australia, having customs fees and a 10% Goods & Services Tax (on the cost + shipping) - eg Alien SE the US price is equivalent to 10k Aust but we pay 13k once all the fees and costs are added on
So basicalli the same as europeans, before the extra 25%?
Quoted from Manny65:Yep it's much the same, but luckily no tariff. While Norway is not subject to the tariff, if you brought a game in from Norway then you'd need to pay the EU tariff - is that right?
I dont know. Usually as swedish you can travel to norway, buying used games with no tariffs crossing the border.
Also the border, well it's more of a line on the map. Well abit beefier during corona.
There's also the issue of jjp not having any distro in norway.
My plan as it stands with tariffs having friends in norway buying games, then buying used from them.
Quoted from darkpinball:Isn't this old news that has been stated since april, just courious about what your criteria and how you draw the line between success and disaster since you apperently know the statistics and whats going on in Sweden?
Im free as a bird but volunterely choose not to participiate in stupid things in compliance with 75% of the Swedish population just like during the spring and in accordance of the health department recomendations.
There is a specific thread about this subject in which you will be praised for lack of knowledge and objectivity about Sweden, sorry if Im grumpy but the story about Sweden is quite missleading.
I dont agree at all, but it's off-topic.
2 weeks later
1 month later
Quoted from RipleYYY:Pascal, i think he was more talking about the 2nd hand market...
as about NIB, yes, it should go back to normal
I think this will lower the 2nd market, since people will gonna go back buying nibs=they want to get rid of other games.
1 week later
Quoted from Nepi23:https://www.natlawreview.com/article/us-eu-and-uk-suspend-airbus-boeing-retaliatory-tariffs
"The suspension of duties is effective March 11- July 10."
Which mean that it is practically useless, since most games are on backorders atm?
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