(Topic ID: 281397)

25% punitive tariff on pinball machines for EU customers

By master_of_chaos

3 years ago


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  • 100 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by RipleYYY
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    There are 382 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 8.
    #302 3 years ago

    that link is to a paid new site so we can not read whatever you were trying to post.

    #303 3 years ago

    All in my Heavy Metal (8K usd) was 12.7K cdn out the door.
    It's not all rainbows and par dollars here either.

    #304 3 years ago
    Quoted from BMHouze:

    All in my Heavy Metal (8K usd) was 12.7K cdn out the door.
    It's not all rainbows and par dollars here either.

    We get a similar thing here is Australia, having customs fees and a 10% Goods & Services Tax (on the cost + shipping) - eg Alien SE the US price is equivalent to 10k Aust but we pay 13k once all the fees and costs are added on

    #305 3 years ago
    Quoted from Manny65:

    We get a similar thing here is Australia, having customs fees and a 10% Goods & Services Tax (on the cost + shipping) - eg Alien SE the US price is equivalent to 10k Aust but we pay 13k once all the fees and costs are added on

    Disgusting! Transport there is no way around, but another approximate 15%, is terrible.

    #306 3 years ago
    Quoted from Manny65:

    We get a similar thing here is Australia, having customs fees and a 10% Goods & Services Tax (on the cost + shipping) - eg Alien SE the US price is equivalent to 10k Aust but we pay 13k once all the fees and costs are added on

    So basicalli the same as europeans, before the extra 25%?

    #307 3 years ago
    Quoted from elcolonel:

    Disgusting! Transport there is no way around, but another approximate 15%, is terrible.

    Yep agree, although if a distributor is able to bring in a full container then the shipping costs per pin are relatively small. Actually the cost for us in shipping parts or mods is the worst - a distributor would likely bring a pin in Australia for less than what I can bring a PF in (I've seen quotes of $400-600 for shipping alone to bring a PF in)

    Quoted from Dr-pin:

    So basicalli the same as europeans, before the extra 25%?

    Yep it's much the same, but luckily no tariff. While Norway is not subject to the tariff, if you brought a game in from Norway then you'd need to pay the EU tariff - is that right?

    #308 3 years ago
    Quoted from Manny65:

    Yep it's much the same, but luckily no tariff. While Norway is not subject to the tariff, if you brought a game in from Norway then you'd need to pay the EU tariff - is that right?

    I dont know. Usually as swedish you can travel to norway, buying used games with no tariffs crossing the border.
    Also the border, well it's more of a line on the map. Well abit beefier during corona.
    There's also the issue of jjp not having any distro in norway.

    My plan as it stands with tariffs having friends in norway buying games, then buying used from them.

    #309 3 years ago

    a new Stern pro cost now 8k in the Netherlands.
    9700 dollar that's include tax.
    Game over for the dutchies, most of them.
    New sales wil drop 50%.
    Secondhand machine prices are going true the roof now.

    Screenshot_20210102_002433_nl.marktplaats.android (resized).jpgScreenshot_20210102_002433_nl.marktplaats.android (resized).jpg
    #310 3 years ago
    Quoted from Dr-pin:

    I dont know. Usually as swedish you can travel to norway, buying used games with no tariffs crossing the border.
    Also the border, well it's more of a line on the map. Well abit beefier during corona.
    There's also the issue of jjp not having any distro in norway.
    My plan as it stands with tariffs having friends in norway buying games, then buying used from them.

    I think technically the origin of the used games are still the US, but not necessarily something needed to put on the customs declarstion, and dont know if the swedish border patrol will sctually investigate in depth. I think its much more strict into norway from sweden, than the opposite.

    #311 3 years ago
    Quoted from Dr-pin:

    I dont know. Usually as swedish you can travel to norway, buying used games with no tariffs crossing the border.
    Also the border, well it's more of a line on the map. Well abit beefier during corona.
    There's also the issue of jjp not having any distro in norway.
    My plan as it stands with tariffs having friends in norway buying games, then buying used from them.

    UK does not have the 25% anymore.

    How many GnR's are going to make their way to Europe as 'lovely HUO' games?

    #312 3 years ago
    Quoted from Shapeshifter:

    UK does not have the 25% anymore.
    How many GnR's are going to make their way to Europe as 'lovely HUO' games?

    From what I've read in this thread, the EU tariff is on any US made machine (new or used) or any part

    #313 3 years ago
    Quoted from Manny65:

    From what I've read in this thread, the EU tariff is on any US made machine (new or used) or any part

    Yes but UK is no longer part of the EU.

    #314 3 years ago

    What if you separate the head from the playfield and ship them separately as parts, research projects, art, etc.? This won't work for brick and mortar stores, but private sales might have some luck. Maybe you want to just have some art in your house of a pinball head that doesn't function?

    What is the exact definition of a pinball machine anyway?

    #315 3 years ago
    Quoted from happyclan:

    What if you separate the head from the playfield and ship them separately as parts, research projects, art, etc.? This won't work for brick and mortar stores, but private sales might have some luck. Maybe you want to just have some art in your house of a pinball head that doesn't function?
    What is the exact definition of a pinball machine anyway?

    It’s not just machines, but also parts subject to the tariffs.

    #316 3 years ago
    Quoted from Bundy:

    Yes but UK is no longer part of the EU.

    Yes I understand there is no tariff when they arrive in the UK but I believe Shapeshifter was implying that they could then be on-sold as "used" machines into the EU - however my understanding is that the person in the EU would be subject to the tariff as it applies to any US manufactured pinball machine whether it be new or used

    #317 3 years ago
    Quoted from NeilMcRae:

    Sweden is a disaster they've got one of highest rates and the reality is that they have voluntarily gone into lockdown because their health administrator has a serious confidence problem in their own country, history will tell us more in the coming years.

    Isn't this old news that has been stated since april, just courious about what your criteria and how you draw the line between success and disaster since you apperently know the statistics and whats going on in Sweden?
    Im free as a bird but volunterely choose not to participiate in stupid things in compliance with 75% of the Swedish population just like during the spring and in accordance of the health department recomendations.
    There is a specific thread about this subject in which you will be praised for lack of knowledge and objectivity about Sweden, sorry if Im grumpy but the story about Sweden is quite missleading.

    #318 3 years ago
    Quoted from Manny65:

    Yes I understand there is no tariff when they arrive in the UK but I believe shapeshifter was implying that they could then be on-sold as "used" machines into the EU - however my understanding is that the person in the EU would be subject to the tariff as it applies to any US manufactured pinball machine whether it be new or used

    Pure speculation on my part - no idea what the actual realities will be.

    Except, surely this will hurt Stern the most due to the amount of games that get sent to Europe?

    Are people really going to suck up an extra 25% on what is already a super expensive toy??!

    #319 3 years ago
    Quoted from Shapeshifter:

    Pure speculation on my part - no idea what the actual realities will be.
    Except, surely this will hurt Stern the most due to the amount of games that get sent to Europe?
    Are people really going to suck up an extra 25% on what is already a super expensive toy??!

    any pinball machine imported to Europe regardless of age, if declared at the border will get a 25% duty applied to it. Now I'm sure you could call some guy, lets call him MeilNcRae and ask him to buy a game on your behalf, he could then meet you in Kent give you the game to put in your van and you could declare it as chopped wood for £200 and probably get away with not paying the duty... I pretty much do this every time I come back from the USA with cases stuffed fool of pinball parts Of course remember, if you can't do the time or pay the fine, don't do the crime

    The good news is that now the UK is out of the EU, we no longer have this ridiculous tariff and my GNR and R&M have set sail for our beautiful island!

    #320 3 years ago
    Quoted from darkpinball:

    Isn't this old news that has been stated since april, just courious about what your criteria and how you draw the line between success and disaster since you apperently know the statistics and whats going on in Sweden?
    Im free as a bird but volunterely choose not to participiate in stupid things in compliance with 75% of the Swedish population just like during the spring and in accordance of the health department recomendations.
    There is a specific thread about this subject in which you will be praised for lack of knowledge and objectivity about Sweden, sorry if Im grumpy but the story about Sweden is quite missleading.

    to be honest I couldn't really care about what's going on in Sweden other than I hope nobody is dying, but Sweden is used, wrongly, to defend bad policy choices with about as much understanding as you rightly call me out for. I think its fair to say that I think only Australia and NZ have got this right and the countries next closest those hit by SARS (mostly Far East), no country in the west has done a good job.

    #322 3 years ago
    Quoted from darkpinball:

    Isn't this old news that has been stated since april, just courious about what your criteria and how you draw the line between success and disaster since you apperently know the statistics and whats going on in Sweden?
    Im free as a bird but volunterely choose not to participiate in stupid things in compliance with 75% of the Swedish population just like during the spring and in accordance of the health department recomendations.
    There is a specific thread about this subject in which you will be praised for lack of knowledge and objectivity about Sweden, sorry if Im grumpy but the story about Sweden is quite missleading.

    I dont agree at all, but it's off-topic.

    #323 3 years ago
    Quoted from NeilMcRae:

    to be honest I couldn't really care about what's going on in Sweden other than I hope nobody is dying, but Sweden is used, wrongly, to defend bad policy choices with about as much understanding as you rightly call me out for. I think its fair to say that I think only Australia and NZ have got this right and the countries next closest those hit by SARS (mostly Far East), no country in the west has done a good job.

    It's about as bad as most places but should of course be discussed elsewhere, I agree with you and how it's being misused for other purposes.

    #324 3 years ago
    Quoted from NeilMcRae:

    any pinball machine imported to Europe regardless of age, if declared at the border will get a 25% duty applied to it. Now I'm sure you could call some guy, lets call him MeilNcRae and ask him to buy a game on your behalf, he could then meet you in Kent give you the game to put in your van and you could declare it as chopped wood for £200 and probably get away with not paying the duty... I pretty much do this every time I come back from the USA with cases stuffed fool of pinball parts Of course remember, if you can't do the time or pay the fine, don't do the crime
    The good news is that now the UK is out of the EU, we no longer have this ridiculous tariff and my GNR and R&M have set sail for our beautiful island!

    Your R&M shipped already? What number you got?

    #325 3 years ago
    Quoted from Edenecho:

    Your R&M shipped already? What number you got?

    its been ready for months and ships this week along with about 8 other games for the UK.

    #326 3 years ago
    Quoted from NeilMcRae:

    its been ready for months and ships this week along with about 8 other games for the UK.

    Ah great, you got an early number then

    #327 3 years ago
    Quoted from Edenecho:

    Ah great, you got an early number then

    Spooky said they do foreign games as a batch no matter what the game numbers are so they can ship them at once. I’m sure there are games from all over the number range going to the UK, and good for them that it can finally happen.

    2 weeks later
    1 week later
    1 week later
    #331 3 years ago

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-05/eu-weighs-temporary-tariff-freeze-ahead-of-first-call-with-biden

    European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen is considering offering a six-month tariff suspension to U.S. President Joe Biden when they speak on the telephone, according to people with knowledge of her preparation.

    The call is expected soon, according to the people, suggesting it could take place in the coming days. The commission’s chief spokesman, Eric Mamer, couldn’t confirm details on the timing when contacted via text message.

    Von der Leyen’s trade advisers have recommended that she seek a freeze on levies related to aircraft and metal disputes that have hit $18 billion worth of European and American products, said the people, who asked not to be identified because the call will be private. This would allow the two sides time to negotiate a longer term agreement.

    The conversation between the two, the first since Biden’s inauguration last month, will come at a pivotal moment in transatlantic relations. The EU is keen to put an end to the long-running spats -- the aircraft dispute has lasted 17 years -- while also resetting relations with the U.S., which hit a low point during Donald Trump’s term when he said the bloc was a “foe” of Washington.

    “It’s very important that we put those bilateral trade irritants behind us and really concentrate on the broader international trade agenda,” EU Trade Commissioner Valdis Dombrovskis told an online event organized by the German Marshall Fund on Feb. 1.

    Top WTO Award
    The EU will be allowed to impose tariffs on $4 billion worth of U.S. exports

    Source: World Trade Organization

    Note: *Awarded in C$; **=certain country of origin labeling; ***=foreign sales corporations

    The World Trade Organization authorized the EU and U.S. to impose tariffs on $11.5 billion of each other’s exports over illegal aid provided to Airbus SE and Boeing Co. The levies hit aircraft parts as well as an array of unrelated sectors such as wine, spirits, olives, tractors and video games. Attempts to reach a settlement stalled last year after the U.S. boosted the punitive tariffs on Dec. 30.

    “We think there can be a fresh start with the Biden administration and the EU,” Airbus Chief Executive Officer Guillaume Faury said in a Jan. 27 interview. “Both of them want to have a good start together.”

    Motorcycles, Jeans
    In 2018, Trump turned to a Cold War-era law to introduce a 25% duty on steel and a 10% levy on aluminum products on the basis of national security concerns. The EU disputed the legality of that measure and responded with retaliatory tariffs on about $3.4 billion of U.S. goods.

    The EU targeted U.S. goods including Harley-Davidson Inc. motorcycles, Levi Strauss & Co. jeans and bourbon whiskey. If an agreement isn’t reached by June, the EU will be able to impose tariffs on an extra 3.6 billion euros ($4.3 billion) of American goods.

    Any easing of the tariffs would build on other signs of agreements between the allies. Europeans are optimistic that a long-running dispute over how to tax global tech companies could be reached, and a deadlock over who would become the next head of the WTO appeared to be close to a resolution.

    #332 3 years ago

    There is hope. I just really hope we get allong on our transatlantic friendship. We have no need to be in this trade war. We have bigger fights to fight in this pandemic. Also looking at other bigger economies and 'not so' democratic countries that want a leading position. We need a strong US-EU-GB realtionship in this world. Not only on WTO but also on NATO. Hope Joe and Ursula see the importance on all of this.

    #333 3 years ago
    Quoted from melappels:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-05/eu-weighs-temporary-tariff-freeze-ahead-of-first-call-with-biden
    European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen is considering offering a six-month tariff suspension to U.S. President Joe Biden when they speak on the telephone, according to people with knowledge of her preparation.
    The call is expected soon, according to the people, suggesting it could take place in the coming days. The commission’s chief spokesman, Eric Mamer, couldn’t confirm details on the timing when contacted via text message.
    Von der Leyen’s trade advisers have recommended that she seek a freeze on levies related to aircraft and metal disputes that have hit $18 billion worth of European and American products, said the people, who asked not to be identified because the call will be private. This would allow the two sides time to negotiate a longer term agreement.
    The conversation between the two, the first since Biden’s inauguration last month, will come at a pivotal moment in transatlantic relations. The EU is keen to put an end to the long-running spats -- the aircraft dispute has lasted 17 years -- while also resetting relations with the U.S., which hit a low point during Donald Trump’s term when he said the bloc was a “foe” of Washington.
    “It’s very important that we put those bilateral trade irritants behind us and really concentrate on the broader international trade agenda,” EU Trade Commissioner Valdis Dombrovskis told an online event organized by the German Marshall Fund on Feb. 1.
    Top WTO Award
    The EU will be allowed to impose tariffs on $4 billion worth of U.S. exports
    Source: World Trade Organization
    Note: *Awarded in C$; **=certain country of origin labeling; ***=foreign sales corporations
    The World Trade Organization authorized the EU and U.S. to impose tariffs on $11.5 billion of each other’s exports over illegal aid provided to Airbus SE and Boeing Co. The levies hit aircraft parts as well as an array of unrelated sectors such as wine, spirits, olives, tractors and video games. Attempts to reach a settlement stalled last year after the U.S. boosted the punitive tariffs on Dec. 30.
    “We think there can be a fresh start with the Biden administration and the EU,” Airbus Chief Executive Officer Guillaume Faury said in a Jan. 27 interview. “Both of them want to have a good start together.”
    Motorcycles, Jeans
    In 2018, Trump turned to a Cold War-era law to introduce a 25% duty on steel and a 10% levy on aluminum products on the basis of national security concerns. The EU disputed the legality of that measure and responded with retaliatory tariffs on about $3.4 billion of U.S. goods.
    The EU targeted U.S. goods including Harley-Davidson Inc. motorcycles, Levi Strauss & Co. jeans and bourbon whiskey. If an agreement isn’t reached by June, the EU will be able to impose tariffs on an extra 3.6 billion euros ($4.3 billion) of American goods.
    Any easing of the tariffs would build on other signs of agreements between the allies. Europeans are optimistic that a long-running dispute over how to tax global tech companies could be reached, and a deadlock over who would become the next head of the WTO appeared to be close to a resolution.

    This would be good news for us Europeans who have been hit by this tariff in getting new pinball machines.

    Quoted from PeterG:

    There is hope. I just really hope we get allong on our transatlantic friendship. We have no need to be in this trade war. We have bigger fights to fight in this pandemic. Also looking at other bigger economies and 'not so' democratic countries that want a leading position. We need a strong US-EU-GB realtionship in this world. Not only on WTO but also on NATO. Hope Joe and Ursula see the importance on all of this.

    There can only be winners when this pissing contest is finally put to bed.

    3 weeks later
    #334 3 years ago

    And gone....seems this dispute has been buried. At least for coming 4 months. Good for all business.

    #335 3 years ago
    Quoted from PeterG:

    And gone....seems this dispute has been buried. At least for coming 4 months. Good for all business.

    nice, thx for posting!

    #336 3 years ago

    As of today the tax is gone and prices are back to normal:

    https://www.google.nl/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2AX1Z0

    Good news for those who bought the GnR CE’s in Europe, they pay now the normal price again of 13K and not the 17K, because none of these games shipped yet.

    Too bad for LE owners in the EU who got their games delivered already and laid 12.5K for it, they paid now almost the CE price.

    Also second hand market will go back to normal now, because this also increased 25%
    at least.

    #337 3 years ago

    Super!

    Yes!

    #338 3 years ago

    Awesome news!!!

    #339 3 years ago

    Good news for you all.

    #340 3 years ago
    Quoted from Faust:

    As of today the tax is gone and prices are back to normal:
    https://www.google.nl/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2AX1Z0
    Good news for those who bought the GnR CE’s in Europe, they pay now the normal price again of 13K and not the 17K, because none of these games shipped yet.
    Too bad for LE owners in the EU who got their games delivered already and laid 12.5K for it, they paid now almost the CE price.
    Also second hand market will go back to normal now, because this also increased 25%
    at least.

    Do you really think the prices will go back to normal? really? They SHOULD go back, but i would be very surprised, if they will.

    #341 3 years ago

    If the prices won’t go back to normal, they will not sell a lot of new pins.

    #342 3 years ago

    Pascal, i think he was more talking about the 2nd hand market...
    as about NIB, yes, it should go back to normal

    #343 3 years ago
    Quoted from RipleYYY:

    Pascal, i think he was more talking about the 2nd hand market...
    as about NIB, yes, it should go back to normal

    I think this will lower the 2nd market, since people will gonna go back buying nibs=they want to get rid of other games.

    #344 3 years ago

    fingers crossed...

    #345 3 years ago

    What is Stern's production in this 4 month period?

    #346 3 years ago

    Anyone know what date the tax will be gone ? I have parts coming from the USA and hoping that when they arrive that I don’t have to pay the 25% extra.

    #347 3 years ago

    As I understand from the article presented last friday, immidiately. So I would expect no 25% anymore as of saturday. But there is no link to the EU agreement yet.

    #348 3 years ago
    Quoted from PeterG:

    As I understand from the article presented last friday, immidiately. So I would expect no 25% anymore as of saturday. But there is no link to the EU agreement yet.

    That would be great

    #349 3 years ago

    Unfortunatley not directly......

    Joint Statement of the European Union and the United States on the Large Civil Aircraft WTO
    Disputes (05/03/2021)
    The European Union and the United States today agreed on the mutual suspension for four months of
    the tariffs related to the World Trade Organization (WTO) Aircraft disputes. The suspension will cover
    all tariffs both on aircraft as well as on non-aircraft products, and will become effective as soon as the
    internal procedures on both sides are completed.
    This will allow the EU and the US to ease the burden on their industries and workers and focus efforts
    towards resolving these long running disputes at the WTO.
    The EU and the US are committed to reach a comprehensive and durable negotiated solution to the
    Aircraft disputes. Key elements of a negotiated solution will include disciplines on future support in
    this sector, outstanding support measures, monitoring and enforcement, and addressing the trade
    distortive practices of and challenges posed by new entrants to the sector from non-market
    economies, such as China.
    These steps signal the determination of both sides to embark on a fresh start in the relationship.

    #350 3 years ago

    Matter of a few days, it took also only 3 days to put the tariff in place (voting 9th, in place 11th).
    I already got confirmation that my game will not be charged the extra 25%.

    There are 382 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 8.

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