(Topic ID: 281397)

25% punitive tariff on pinball machines for EU customers

By master_of_chaos

11 months ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 382 posts
  • 100 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 months ago by RipleYYY
  • Topic is favorited by 26 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    View topic image gallery

    20210316_210312 (resized).jpg
    Screenshot_20210102_002433_nl.marktplaats.android (resized).jpg
    cdf968bd7a04033c43d864c489db4188f33b6952.jpeg (resized).jpg
    Road Deaths (resized).JPG
    Drug Use (resized).JPG
    027b60262a371002c393c2fffb42b7eb4b4027d98755fa3e0b38af617bcaff65 (resized).jpg
    AE5D51B6-5B7C-4C45-B8BE-18FC7475F6F6 (resized).png
    0A5F2947-3B68-41D8-9551-CE4A042DA5F5 (resized).jpeg
    ACEEABCF-37C5-48B6-8FBD-80DACF25C6FE.gif
    16066429843051906989092988412651 (resized).jpg
     (resized).png
    6D005986-9035-4AB7-BB23-78EF9F82D419 (resized).png
    Screenshot_20201116_140132_com.android.chrome (resized).jpg
    image-asset (resized).jpeg

    There are 382 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 8.
    #251 10 months ago

    Incendium said the contracts got re-written while the HM sat in the warehouse 2 weeks.
    I wonder what changed?
    I see the new Zepplin premium is cheaper than my 'premium'.

    #252 10 months ago
    Quoted from Dr-pin:

    No news on this?
    You would think the producing companies, would do their best checking if you could curcumvent using no coin mech etc.......

    No it’s all pinball machines or parts a pinball machine without coin mech is still a pinball machine.

    #253 10 months ago
    Quoted from rai:

    No it’s all pinball machines or parts a pinball machine without coin mech is still a pinball machine.

    I do not see any specific refference to Pinball in their list

    95042000 billiards of all kinds and accessories
    95043010 games with screen, operated by coins, banknotes, bank cards, tokens or by other means of payment
    95043020 games without screen, operated by coins, banknotes, bank cards, tokens or by other means of payment (excl.
    bowling alley equipment)
    95043090 parts of games, operated by coins, banknotes, bank cards, tokens or by other means of payment (excl. of
    bowling alley equipment)
    95044000 playing cards
    95045000 video game consoles and machines (excl. operated by any means of payment)
    95049010 electric car racing sets, having the character of competitive games
    95049080 tables for casino games, automatic bowling alley equipment, and other funfair, table or parlour games, incl.
    pintables (excl. operated by any means of payment, billiards, video game consoles and machines, playing
    cards and electric car racing sets having the character of competitive games)
    95069110 exercising apparatus with adjustable resistance mechanisms
    95069190 articles and equipment for general physical exercise, gymnastics or athletics (excl. exercising apparatus with
    adjustable resistance mechanisms)

    #254 10 months ago
    Quoted from PeterG:

    95043010 games with screen, operated by coins, banknotes, bank cards, tokens or by other means of payment

    Right there. It's deliberately vague to be all-encompassing. And for the SS/EMs:

    Quoted from PeterG:

    95043020 games without screen, operated by coins, banknotes, bank cards, tokens or by other means of payment (excl.
    bowling alley equipment)

    #255 10 months ago

    Prices from Pinball Universe (Germany)

    Led Zeppelin LE 12990 Euro (15.927 Dollar)
    Led Zeppelin Premium 10490 Euro (12862 Dollar)
    Led Zeppelin Pro 7790 Euro (9551 Dollar)

    And that'sthe same with the older titles

    #256 10 months ago

    yes this market is as good as dead. Pro buyer is never going to buy for that money. The LE buyer is not going to downgrade.

    #257 10 months ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    Right there. It's deliberately vague to be all-encompassing. And for the SS/EMs:

    It´s completely puzzling, we dont hear anything from the companies. Stonewall.

    They dont care?

    European customers and that part of their economy so miniscule?

    You think companies like jjp and stern would have lawyers all over this by now?

    #258 10 months ago
    Quoted from PeterG:

    95049080 tables for casino games, automatic bowling alley equipment, and other funfair, table or parlour games, incl. pin-tables (excl. operated by any means of payment, billiards, video game consoles and machines, playing
    cards and electric car racing sets having the character of competitive games)

    Right there. Pin-tables

    #259 10 months ago
    Quoted from PeterG:

    I do not see any specific refference to Pinball in their list
    95042000 billiards of all kinds and accessories
    95043010 games with screen, operated by coins, banknotes, bank cards, tokens or by other means of payment
    95043020 games without screen, operated by coins, banknotes, bank cards, tokens or by other means of payment (excl.
    bowling alley equipment)
    95043090 parts of games, operated by coins, banknotes, bank cards, tokens or by other means of payment (excl. of
    bowling alley equipment)
    95044000 playing cards
    95045000 video game consoles and machines (excl. operated by any means of payment)
    95049010 electric car racing sets, having the character of competitive games
    95049080 tables for casino games, automatic bowling alley equipment, and other funfair, table or parlour games, incl.
    pintables (excl. operated by any means of payment, billiards, video game consoles and machines, playing
    cards and electric car racing sets having the character of competitive games)
    95069110 exercising apparatus with adjustable resistance mechanisms
    95069190 articles and equipment for general physical exercise, gymnastics or athletics (excl. exercising apparatus with
    adjustable resistance mechanisms)

    It’s there...

    https://www.datamyne.com/hts/95/9504300020

    #260 10 months ago
    Quoted from Dr-pin:

    It´s completely puzzling, we dont hear anything from the companies. Stonewall.
    They dont care?
    European customers and that part of their economy so miniscule?
    You think companies like jjp and stern would have lawyers all over this by now?

    They do care, but they are US companies and this is an EU tariff, not much they can do. I also doubt jjp and stern have huge legal departments, let alone trade experts, to fight this. I’m sure they’ve complained to their state/local reps, but they are also tiny when compared to the bigger underlying trade issue between Boeing and airbus.

    #261 10 months ago

    Holy crap, I ordered some mods at Tim Mezel.... had to pay 134 euros import fees!!!
    So the 25% is charged over the value, plus the shipping costs. Then over this they add 21% VAT.
    Apparently applied also to mods and pinball parts.
    I'm not ordering anymore from the US.

    #262 10 months ago
    Quoted from Faust:

    Holy crap, I ordered some mods at Tim Mezel.... had to pay 134 euros import fees!!!
    So the 25% is charged over the value, plus the shipping costs. Then over this they add 21% VAT.
    Apparently applied also to mods and pinball parts.
    I'm not ordering anymore from the US.

    yup. My GNR LE is coming in a whopping 2800 euro heavier in price than originally billed. I was lucky that the titan rubber band set for the GNR slipped by without the increase in price.

    #263 10 months ago
    Quoted from cybevenom:

    yup. My GNR LE is coming in a whopping 2800 euro heavier in price than originally billed. I was lucky that the titan rubber band set for the GNR slipped by without the increase in price.

    what is the total cost?

    I feel bad for you guys.

    #264 10 months ago
    Quoted from rai:

    what is the total cost?
    I feel bad for you guys.

    15.700 $ +/- Le dolce & gabbana edition
    AE5D51B6-5B7C-4C45-B8BE-18FC7475F6F6 (resized).png

    #265 10 months ago

    Well, i guess europeans will have to make do with alien and big lebowski.

    I just hope games like gnr will still be available when/if the blockade comes to an end.

    #266 10 months ago
    Quoted from Dr-pin:

    Well, i guess europeans will have to make do with alien and big lebowski.
    I just hope games like gnr will still be available when/if the blockade comes to an end.

    Alien it will be assembled in Italy by pedretti gaming

    #267 10 months ago
    Quoted from Faust:

    Holy crap, I ordered some mods at Tim Mezel.... had to pay 134 euros import fees!!!
    So the 25% is charged over the value, plus the shipping costs. Then over this they add 21% VAT.
    Apparently applied also to mods and pinball parts.
    I'm not ordering anymore from the US.

    I've changed the terminology I put on the customs form - I now write "voltage circuit" instead of "pinball circuit". I've also got the first class mail option active again for several European countries - it's slow but about half the cost of the Priority mail packages for my small parts. The big companies making games can't do such things but small vendors like me can be pretty adaptable - it can't hurt to ask.

    -Rob
    -visit https://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or my Pinball 2000 H+V Video Sync Combiner kit

    #268 10 months ago
    Quoted from rkahr:

    I've changed the terminology I put on the customs form - I now write "voltage circuit" instead of "pinball circuit". I've also got the first class mail option active again for several European countries - it's slow but about half the cost of the Priority mail packages for my small parts. The big companies making games can't do such things but small vendors like me can be pretty adaptable - it can't hurt to ask.
    -Rob
    -visit https://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or my Pinball 2000 H+V Video Sync Combiner kit

    Nice work mate!! Thumbs up for your Kahr boards

    #269 9 months ago
    Quoted from rai:

    what is the total cost?
    I feel bad for you guys.

    Total cost is gonna be 12.790€. Prolly forget about it the moment it is plugged in and playing it. Also know someone who has an CE incoming when they are made which wil be around 17000€. Ouch!!

    #270 9 months ago
    Quoted from pascal-pinball:

    Prices from Pinball Universe (Germany)
    Led Zeppelin LE 12990 Euro (15.927 Dollar)
    Led Zeppelin Premium 10490 Euro (12862 Dollar)
    Led Zeppelin Pro 7790 Euro (9551 Dollar)
    And that'sthe same with the older titles

    How to make money with stock on the backs of buyers!
    Anyway, i don’t care, no NIB game anymore till this taxe will exist.

    #271 9 months ago
    Quoted from colonel_caverne:

    How to make money with stock on the backs of buyers!
    Anyway, i don’t care, no NIB game anymore till this taxe will exist.

    not sure as old titles are still at the old prices... see : https://pinball-universe.de/neue-flipperautomaten
    but of course, surelly when these small stock will be empty, new order will be at the new price

    and i'm with you on the second sentence :/

    #272 9 months ago
    Quoted from RipleYYY:

    not sure as old titles are still at the old prices... see : https://pinball-universe.de/neue-flipperautomaten
    but of course, surelly when these small stock will be empty, new order will be at the new price
    and i'm with you on the second sentence :/

    Yes you are right, so it is fair

    #273 9 months ago
    Quoted from Dr-pin:

    Well, i guess europeans will have to make do with alien and big lebowski.
    I just hope games like gnr will still be available when/if the blockade comes to an end.

    anyone buying alien is mad.

    #274 9 months ago

    I played Alien at VFW.
    I would buy one in a heartbeat.
    The original is incredible.

    #275 9 months ago
    Quoted from NeilMcRae:

    anyone buying alien is mad.

    Can I ask why?

    #276 9 months ago
    Quoted from Manny65:

    Can I ask why?

    made with stolen money
    super unreliable
    repetitive gameplay
    manufacturer stuffed all their customers first time around for thousands.

    #277 9 months ago
    Quoted from NeilMcRae:

    made with stolen money
    super unreliable
    repetitive gameplay
    manufacturer stuffed all their customers first time around for thousands.

    027b60262a371002c393c2fffb42b7eb4b4027d98755fa3e0b38af617bcaff65 (resized).jpg

    -1
    #278 9 months ago

    Do not expect the EU additional tariff to go away any time soon. In fact, expect more imbedded taxes, whatever they may be named, to appear. With a population that is already conditioned to accept shut downs, and a fragile economy when it is hitting on all cylinders, the future looks as if the EU will have to squeeze every last euro from those that have them.

    #279 9 months ago
    Quoted from rkahr:

    I've changed the terminology I put on the customs form - I now write "voltage circuit" instead of "pinball circuit".

    Same. I used to note that my translites were for pinball on custom forms, now I just say "art". There's no reason why some prints should be hit with some stupid tariff.

    #280 9 months ago

    I guess a container of used pins would just bankrupt a buyer.
    Funny, I never thought about this the other way sooner.

    #281 9 months ago
    Quoted from elcolonel:

    Do not expect the EU additional tariff to go away any time soon. In fact, expect more imbedded taxes, whatever they may be named, to appear. With a population that is already conditioned to accept shut downs, and a fragile economy when it is hitting on all cylinders, the future looks as if the EU will have to squeeze every last euro from those that have them.

    what a load of nonsense - the population in EU is demanding lockdown so we don't kill our own people.

    #282 9 months ago
    Quoted from NeilMcRae:

    what a load of nonsense - the population in EU is demanding lockdown so we don't kill our own people.

    Lock down is not the main point of my comment, it is just the factor dujour, in a population that is quite well conditioned to various and sundry taxation. Hardly nonsense. That the US is now becoming quite like the very status, that the Revolutionary War sought to repel, is distressing to many here.

    #283 9 months ago
    Quoted from elcolonel:

    Lock down is not the main point of my comment, it is just the factor dujour, in a population that is quite well conditioned to various and sundry taxation. Hardly nonsense. That the US is now becoming quite like the very status, that the Revolutionary War sought to repel, is distressing to many here.

    With these tariffs, isn’t the US doing exactly the same thing? It just doesn’t happen to be on pinball so none of us notice it. But if we were on a cognac collectors forum, we’d be having this exact same conversation in reverse. It’s a trade war tool designed to hurt the other country’s industries, not intended as a long-term cash grab since the entire point is to kill sales.

    So I’m not sure these tariffs are any indication that the EU is populated by easily taxed sheep or whatever.

    #284 9 months ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    With these tariffs, isn’t the US doing exactly the same thing? It just doesn’t happen to be on pinball so none of us notice it. But if we were on a cognac collectors forum, we’d be having this exact same conversation in reverse. It’s a trade war tool designed to hurt the other country’s industries, not intended as a long-term cash grab since the entire point is to kill sales.
    So I’m not sure these tariffs are any indication that the EU is populated by easily taxed sheep or whatever.

    Historically the US has been able to rely on the threat of tariffs, certainly since the industrial revolution, and that has achieved, most trade related goals. In that same time frame, European nations have always had more imbedded taxes on their own populations, and that basically is a tariff, because it results in higher cost to it's consumers. Historically higher taxation in Europe, is a matter of fact, not invective.

    #285 9 months ago
    Quoted from elcolonel:

    Historically higher taxation in Europe, is a matter of fact, not invective.

    Can’t disagree with you there, I just question whether this particularly tariff has anything to do with long term taxation trends on either side of the Atlantic.

    #286 9 months ago

    The indicator is, the population on both sides of the Atlantic are letting it happen, without so much as a collective wimper. As far as shut downs go, in the US alone on a yearly basis there are a minimum of 71000 drug overdose related deaths, and 38000 automobile deaths(and 4.4 million injuries that require hospitalization). I would imagine the numbers are around the same, per 100000 people, in most industrialized nations. You cannot shut down life because of death, and what about Sweden, look at their Covid statistics with virtually no shut downs or mandates. I myself prefer a dangerous freedom to a safe captivity.

    #287 9 months ago
    Quoted from elcolonel:

    I would imagine the numbers are around the same, per 100000 people, in most industrialized nations.

    You got me curious ... here's a website I found https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/road-traffic-accidents/by-country/ using WHO 2018 data (you can select the different causes of death and the actual figures per 100,000 people are shown below the map - there is a large range in each of the colours mapped). I wasn't able to find a map version of Covid related deaths but https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/ lists them - the death rate by comparison is scary.

    Drug Use (resized).JPGRoad Deaths (resized).JPG
    #288 9 months ago

    This year US had the most deaths ever something like 400K more than last year.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1252078

    #289 9 months ago

    Hopefully most understand my underlying point. Not discounting the moral responsibility for people to take action, to not contract, or transmit Covid 19. I subscribe that there is an individual responsibility, to not drive like an idiot, or abuse drugs(prescribed or otherwise).
    None of this takes away the fact that taxation in all forms is more prevalent in Europe.

    #290 9 months ago
    Quoted from elcolonel:

    and what about Sweden, look at their Covid statistics with virtually no shut downs or mandates.

    Sweden ain’t looking so hot anymore. This isn’t a good defence of no lockdowns. Their King came out 2 weeks ago and said they have failed.

    #291 9 months ago
    Quoted from elcolonel:

    Historically higher taxation in Europe, is a matter of fact, not invective.

    And historically lower costs in Europe for a lot of things, like healthcare. We may have more taxes, but in the end in total we don't pay more than in the US for what we get.

    #292 9 months ago

    Well for my 2 mods, Leg Lights and Cup lights I put no comment on the customs form that they are for pinball machines. I just write down plastics and led strips and/or bolts and I put the price on the form low also. LOL

    cdf968bd7a04033c43d864c489db4188f33b6952.jpeg (resized).jpg
    -1
    #293 9 months ago
    Quoted from MustangPaul:

    I put the price on the form low also. LOL[quoted image]

    You take a risk doing that as it's technically tax evasion, be careful.

    #294 9 months ago
    Quoted from MustangPaul:

    Well for my 2 mods, Leg Lights and Cup lights...

    "libations for everybody !"

    #295 9 months ago
    Quoted from MustangPaul:

    Well for my 2 mods, Leg Lights and Cup lights I put no comment on the customs form that they are for pinball machines. I just write down plastics and led strips and/or bolts and I put the price on the form low also. LOL[quoted image]

    Your our hero

    #296 9 months ago
    Quoted from elcolonel:

    Lock down is not the main point of my comment, it is just the factor dujour, in a population that is quite well conditioned to various and sundry taxation. Hardly nonsense. That the US is now becoming quite like the very status, that the Revolutionary War sought to repel, is distressing to many here.

    It's total nonsense and almost gaslighting and the second part is even more nonsense given the hugely wide and different taxation approaches across Europe and the EU, and more so the folly that the US is a low tax economy; Since the banking crisis all of your administrations have fooled you into believing that you are a low tax economy when your debt has more than doubled in the last ten years - who is paying that back? - The US taxpayer! But the biggest tax folly is the medical system and the education system in the US with the biggest waste in healthcare in the world in the US and most folks who go to university with a crippling $250K debt hanging around their neck. Taxation is the same ultimately it's just in the US someone makes a margin out of health and education whereas in Europe we're looking for way to be more efficient and get more value.

    China is laughing because your current administration has conned you all into thinking China is paying tariffs when they've paid almost nothing and the US is paying on both sides: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-trade-china-tariffs-explainer/explainer-trumps-china-tariffs-paid-by-u-s-importers-not-by-china-idUKKCN1US003

    Quoted from elcolonel:

    The indicator is, the population on both sides of the Atlantic are letting it happen, without so much as a collective wimper. As far as shut downs go, in the US alone on a yearly basis there are a minimum of 71000 drug overdose related deaths, and 38000 automobile deaths(and 4.4 million injuries that require hospitalization). I would imagine the numbers are around the same, per 100000 people, in most industrialized nations. You cannot shut down life because of death, and what about Sweden, look at their Covid statistics with virtually no shut downs or mandates. I myself prefer a dangerous freedom to a safe captivity.

    Sweden is a disaster they've got one of highest rates and the reality is that they have voluntarily gone into lockdown because their health administrator has a serious confidence problem in their own country, history will tell us more in the coming years. Note here in the UK we've totally mishandled Covid, we have the biggest clown on the planet running our track and trace system that has been a dismal failure and smart people in our parliament not able to participate in the administration because of the stupid farce that our political system caused over mishandling our vote to leave the EU, so politicians have gone tribal and only allow their most trusted yes men in the cabinet.

    on Covid - here in the UK we are in as much mess as the US perhaps even more, my point isn't about who is better my point for clarity is that government is failing us all, all around the western world. I believe in smaller government and the private sector leading on core things but with a set of KPI's that aren't only_ about margin and stock price I also believe governments need stronger smarter people because right now we just don't have that. Instead we have bumbling fools allowing power to be given to other bumbling fools where we have no say in what they do, the UK said, "hell no", to that and we've left the EU because of it, now if Boris puts a tariff on something, I can go hold him account. with the EU, its faceless idiots who have zero_ accountabilty and I have no way to influence the policy of that part of our government. The rest of the EU counties are going to realise this soon enough.

    Regards,
    Neil.

    #297 9 months ago
    Quoted from elcolonel:

    Lock down is not the main point of my comment, it is just the factor dujour, in a population that is quite well conditioned to various and sundry taxation. Hardly nonsense. That the US is now becoming quite like the very status, that the Revolutionary War sought to repel, is distressing to many here.

    You obviously did not understand my post, as most here in the US, are not fooled into thinking that we are taxed considerably lower than the EU.
    The US has been taking cues from Europe for years, concerning taxation in all forms and immigration policies, and it does not bode well for western civilization.

    #298 9 months ago
    Quoted from NeilMcRae:

    I believe in smaller government and the private sector leading on core things but with a set of KPI's that aren't only_ about margin and stock price I also believe governments need stronger smarter people because right now we just don't have that.

    The problem with so many countries now is they're run by people who say "government doesn't work" and then go on to prove it by being spectacularly bad at it. Neither of us win having an argument about who's got the bigger clowns.

    Still, I'm at least happy to have discussions with people about tax policies. We don't have to agree, it's a complicated topic with lots of room for nuance.

    It's when you get this reality denying stuff, like people who think covid is a hoax, that I just slap the ignore button. Our ICUs in Los Angeles are at 0% free capacity. The wait time for an ambulance to actually unload you at the hospital is averaging 4 hours. This isn't a policy disagreement, this is real life. Take your anti-mask it's-all-a-hoax nonsense and get out of my life, I'm not trying to even discuss it with people anymore.

    Managing a pandemic is exactly the sort of reason we need government, run by smart people, who believe in science. Global issues can't be handled piecemeal by companies, or cities, or even states. It takes leadership. And we're sorely lacking in that all over right now.

    #299 9 months ago

    You will always have greedy ppl in charge or high up just pocketing tax or wasting it, that will never change. I dread to think how much of my tax I pay is pissed away or just ends up in one guys pocket. The system will always be Corrupt. Until robots are in charge just imagine how much better things would be if that money was used efficiently and 100% ended up where it should be. World would truly be a better place but long as we are human that will never ever happen and you just have to accept govs will twat your money away.

    #300 9 months ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    The problem with so many countries now is they're run by people who say "government doesn't work" and then go on to prove it by being spectacularly bad at it. Neither of us win having an argument about who's got the bigger clowns.
    Still, I'm at least happy to have discussions with people about tax policies. We don't have to agree, it's a complicated topic with lots of room for nuance.
    It's when you get this reality denying stuff, like people who think covid is a hoax, that I just slap the ignore button. Our ICUs in Los Angeles are at 0% free capacity. The wait time for an ambulance to actually unload you at the hospital is averaging 4 hours. This isn't a policy disagreement, this is real life. Take your anti-mask it's-all-a-hoax nonsense and get out of my life, I'm not trying to even discuss it with people anymore.
    Managing a pandemic is exactly the sort of reason we need government, run by smart people, who believe in science. Global issues can't be handled piecemeal by companies, or cities, or even states. It takes leadership. And we're sorely lacking in that all over right now.

    Again you can use certain situations to prove points. I agree pandemics are the sort of thing government should be able to deal with and with the exception of a few countries nobody had done a great job in this. So if they do a shit job then I want them out of it.

    But global issues can be handed by with the right culture and mindset, that's how we are all here connected to the Internet able to exchange our views.

    There are 382 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 8.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside