This tariff takes an already expensive Stern LE and knocks it up to £13k GBP that’s approx $18k USD. A pro here in the U.K. will be pushing towards £8.5k that’s $11.2k USD!

There’s a few that may still buy who have bottomless pockets but the majority of the NIB market here in the U.K. and E.U. has just been obliterated by this tariff, I’ve been buying NIB since 2009 and I’m now out!

I would still like to challenge item 7 of this regulation. I think europe is substantially dependent for its supply of pinballs from the US.

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Yea, obviously. Unless they argue dutch pinball can provide all nib-needs.
What are they producing? Two games a week?

However i dont think a single elite in brussels give a fuck about other people.

i ordered a GNR LE in the first week and am still torn on how to act when it arrives. It all boils down to wether if i am willing to miss out on this game or not. Sure there will be 5000 made but i have no idea on how long this bullshit will go on. I let go of my fairly new Iron Maiden premium in order to have the money for this one so that says alot of how much i like this game. And for now i am at the point of taking the hit if it really comes to it since i have been looking forward to this game. Not happy about the situation but missing out on my #1 game JJP POTC because of a completely other clusterfuck taught me one thing. Jump on it if you really really want it. And can afford it (even if barely).

I understand the reasoning. It's just biting me really hard giving eu an extra 3000 dollar.

I aint willing to do that.

Still no idea what price will be or even if my machine is underway. Could even be that when it arrive this tradewar will have blown over because of new management in the USA. For all i know the silence from JJP on production an shipping is deafening.

I ordered a pinball machine from Norway a few days ago (avengers: IQ) and that got stopped in customs because they want the extra tariff so it doesn't matter when the machines left the US, it applies to all machines regardless.

just as you thought 2020 couldn't get any worse.

Welcome to Pinside but that sucks. Just hope this situation gets sorted but it doesn't look good at the moment

Get a norwegian friend to buy it and then collect it there.
Or rather if you dont want to smuggle it, buy it from the friend as used.

im not even sure that it would work - but if you're 100% that it would you could be my friend

Man, that sucks.

If this doesn't get sorted out in 2021, there are going to be huge ramifications in the pinball industry.

How many Led Zep LE would have gone to Europe as opposed to how many will go now??

If UK is sorted in Jan 2021 I'm going to start a pinball smuggling cartel to mainland Europe

You may want to find other goods to move through your cartel, according to this the UK is sticking with the war on US pinball ...

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/25-punitive-tariff-on-pinball-machines-for-eu-customers/page/3#post-5983663

Norway is not in EU, so it would work - but you still have to smuggle it across to Denmark. Anyway, since between Nordic countries the borders are quite free, it probably will be OK.

We will all soon have pin dealers

Please post pics if this pin is hauled across the border on cross-country skis ...

It's when you import it the tax is due. so the date the item is presented to clearance is the date that counts. This is why when the UK leaves the EU it won't be possible to import games cheaper via that route. Sadly even with Biden coming in this is liable to be around for a long time.

I've got a JJP GNR and a R&M in Chicago somewhere waiting to be shipped until after the new year when the UK is out of the EU. Hopefully we stick to the 0% tariff otherwise its money back or my dealer swallows it.

On this though; I have a £10K limit on pinball machines and No F**king Way am I paying £8200 for a Stern Pro. Only a nutcase would. A LE will be $14550 or £12K.

Cheers,
Neil.

just to check though an import from Norway to Denmark should be:

25% Import Duty Tariff
25% Value added tax (sales tax)

Are you paying 50% more? if not then you got off lightly!

Nobody's perfect.

yep that's how it will be until they remove the tariff.

and I chose not to buy it! gonna look for a used Jurassic Park instead, and hopefully in a couple of months the avengers IQ will start showing up used as well (probably not, but I can dream)

/rod

What you reckon will be the case for deposits - GnR for example if tariffs remain.
I’m def not paying additional 25% either... surely that will be deposit back?
How will the Distro claw that back from JJP?
At the end of the day from a retail point - I put a deposit on an item for 9.5 GBP LE sale price.
A shitty situation though.... but here’s hoping all is well for Jan 2021.

I think pinball market share is more than 15% in Europe. I wouldn't count on being aligned to tariffs but its possible.

note though, in Europe this was not decided by elected people, it was decided by an undemocratic quango called the European commission who can do what they like but are accountable to nobody.

sadly the law both now and in the new year says the distributor either ponies up the game or refunds you in full; shitter for our distributor who is a good guy...

ok, 25% so no NIB pinball anymore. Together with no vacation, no dining out, no new clothes, no need for a new car, I am working from home since march. Where do I leave my money? I will be filthy rich

Cost of free healthcare. Wont debate much, but people think its all green grass on the other side. VAT is a BS tax that I cannot even believe didn't result in an uprising lol.

and wtf is there a punitive tax for? please post more info on this or the reasoning behind it? In the US this is like the LITERAL reason we fought for taxation without representation haha. /s

The response from the US retaliating to the EU's initial Boeing BS or what not and now this is like the biggest pissing contest I have ever seen lol.

As it stands you can buy used pinball machines in norway and just transport them to sweden. There is no customs on pinball machines.
If you buy new from norway, i'd guess the same applies, you're not paying 25% vat in both countries.

So, to my understanding, you can buy nib in norway, but then you have to smuggle it across the border, which is nothing since there are litterally thousands of unguarded crossings.

If you can unpack it in norway and have a friendly norwegian attest to you, that you've bought a used machine, you dont have to worry about customs at all.

If you buy something in one country in the EU and take it to another EU country it you should only pay vat were you bought it agreed.

If you buy something outside the EU then import it into the EU then the process is you are meant to reclaim the VAT in the origin country and then pay VAT as it enters the EU. (Same for most countries). I suspect if you declare a pinball machine properly going from Sweden to Norway you will pay VAT and Duty on it.

Interesting about the border - same thing the U.K. wants in Ireland but apparently it would be unworkable yet works in hubdreds of locations across the EU!

You mean like sales tax in the US?

We pay tariffs in the US too. I know that we heard dumb shit like "China will pay for it!" but that's not how it works. The costs are always passed to the consumer.

At least with taxes you can see the benefits. If you like roads and schools and all kinds of good stuff, hey, taxes pay for it all. You might not like paying them, or everything they pay for, but the end results are tangible on a level you can see.

Tariffs are just pissing matches. It's hard to see any winners right now, we're all just getting wet.

Sucks, but did you not clarify this with your distributor beforehand, what did they say?
I said fuck it and the machine is returned?

Being in norway, rs-pinball confirmed i will not be paying the tariff for Rick n Morty, as I hoped/assumed.. djeez.. first time since i came into this hobby i am glad we are not part of eu :O

retro Norway was of the idea that as long as the pinball machine had left (and entered Norway) before the punitive tax was introduced, it wouldn't apply (only on new machine ordered in the us after the punitive tax was set in motion). But that was not the case and he didn't have any problems canceling the order as soon as he learned about it from the danish customs.

so to be on the safe side I will not be buying any pinball machines outside EU, even used ones as you never know
But I am confident that the punitive tax will go away "soon" as it doesn't really help anyone

Stern should build a factory in Europe and the problem would be solved.
In addition reduced delivery costs
The only downside would be a higher exposure to currencies exchange risks !

This would be a HUGE cost to stern I don’t think it will happen, either the customer eats the price hike or go without will be what happens here

If Europe is really 40-65% of Stern's market as some in this thread have speculated, then it might not be so crazy to build those machines locally. Of course in addition to all the hassles of learning how to do business in a new regulatory environment, there's the problem of what Stern would do with that nice big facility they moved to in 2015.

They could easily cover that portion of the new facility lost to a production line in EU, just rent that portion of it out to JJP so they can finally get 2 titles out a year

Didn't Stern already set up manufacturing in Brazil for the same reasons? So they've already done it, and if the market is as big as we're led to believe, this is a lot bigger than Brazil.

they won't build in Europe, likely too high manufacturing costs. if they build anywhere, it will be a low cost country and then export to the EU.

Looks to me like there might be a huge lift in the amount of the pins ordered by the norwegian people

what about going through Switzerland?

Their borders are much more controlled..

Anyway - the whole situation is a major problem for big importers.

Yes one private person (especially in scandinavian countries) could try to buy a new machine in Norway and literally smuggle it illegally over the border - either by finding a small ungarded country backroad, or by hoping they don't get control when passing the border.
But for dealers who import containers full of pins, these illegal practices are impossible (or much too risky) as the paperwork remains and if they sell dozens of pins they have to be able to show where they got them from.

I'd rather pay 6 or 7 Percent than 6 to 7 Percent AND 25% vat tax AND now this?? Lol.

Plus it's not literally taxation without representation here because we can Vote. We have a say in what our leaders do. By voting on things and who's running it.

You guys get to vote for prime minister u believe. So I was just being funny.

Taxes yes. A terrif not really. They are generally punative.
However they already also pay a 25% vat on anything else. On top of their normal sales tax.

That would be like going to buy milk in the US. Paying 3 bucks for it. Plus the 6% sales tax. AND the. Another 25% vat tax. I'm pretty sure that doesn't apply to everything but I know it's on a lot of stuff.

And of course it's always passed on. That's what the terrif here does. It will be a 25% tax. Which is egregious.

The EU imposed one. Then we retaliated by putting one on some of their shit. Then they retaliated again with this one. If you don't call that a pissing contest idk what is lol)

..and then they go to college, the hospital, etc. for free. Much less stress overall.

Universities ain’t free.

They could do assembly in EU. Many companies just get modules (half-product) in and assemble (add value) in EU. I think Tesla is doing this with their manufacturing.

Almost free - at least compared to other countries.

Just looked up how much the uni I went to charges now - 950eu/yr is standard charge.
If your parents income is low it can get reduced to 500eu/yr and even down to 120 eu/yr.

Non-EU students pay 6000/9000eu/yr depending on their degree.

Books/material are extra but also don't cost thousands..

No you're wrong, VAT is our sales tax. It doesn't get added on top of it.

In all EU countries the tariffs may differ but in general there are three: low, medium, high: around 6 / 11 / 20 pct.

Food and other necessities have 6pct vat (or sales tax as you want to call it). So our milk is also 6pct.
Others goods are 11pct, and luxurious goods have 20 (21, 22, up to 25 depending on the country - but the 25pct in scandinavia is considered as very high by most other countries).

Pinball machines are considered luxurious goods and in most countries you pay around 20pct vat.
Germany lowered their vat temporary from 19 to 16pct because of covid - so earlier this year pinball machines were suddenly cheaper there.

Different here in Europe is that all taxes are included in the price labelled - and not added on top at the cash register.
If something says in the shop it costs 5eu then you pay 5eu.

The vat is paid by the final consumer, companies can deduct it from what they sell.
I know some collectors that have their own company / are contractors and they buy pinball machines on their company and can get the 20pct vat back.

The import tariff now is 25pct, but that is now very exceptional and has nothing to do with our regular vat..

If around 9k a year is pretty much free to you i wish i had your income (this is one i went to)
https://www.uwe.ac.uk/courses/fees

The concept of a tariff was originally introduced by governments looking after their people and it's own local industries - for example here in Australia for many decades we had a tariff on imported cars as we had local car manufacturers. People wanting imported cars had to pay significantly more, the government then used the money collected from tariffs to help subsidise the local car manufacturers. This created a whole industry of local manufacturing suppliers and lots of jobs. In more recent years, free trade agreements with other countries has meant getting rid of tariffs and imported cars have taken over and the last of our local manufacturers has now closed. The impact to us is huge, as we have a high cost of living and don't have the critical mass (population) to have the volume needed to support a local manufacturer. So the overall concept of a tariff was good.

Unfortunately we now see governments around the world applying tariffs to totally unrelated products, which ends up impacting their own people with no real up side ... this just goes against the whole concept of what a tariff was there for (looking after your own people).

We still have the same import Tax and luxury car tax on imports