(Topic ID: 281397)

25% punitive tariff on pinball machines for EU customers


By master_of_chaos

73 days ago



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  • 329 posts
  • 91 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 days ago by Dr-pin
  • Topic is favorited by 25 Pinsiders

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    There are 329 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 7.
    #51 71 days ago

    I’d just hold off any new pins until after this tariff issue blows over. Can not imagine how much a GnR CE would cost.

    #52 71 days ago

    Is this coin op or actual consoles? Seems like this would be a bad time to have a huge tax on the new Xbox and not on the new Playstation.

    #53 71 days ago

    Things like this can kill a niche Market that never recovers. Can Stern survive on US sales only? Can any pinball manufacturer?
    Sure, there will always be SOME sales to wealthy collectors.
    Wholesale order cancellations with customers waiting for an end to tariffs could turn Black Swan with people deciding they didn't need it after all when the initial excitement waned and another Title launched.

    #54 71 days ago

    I will never buy nib pin anymore as long as this taxe will exist. I assume mostly EU buyers are in the same boat

    I received my AIQ LE last week, and then happy to have been taxe free

    I hope Biden and EU could find an agreement unless everyone stands to lose

    #55 71 days ago

    Play trade war games with your trade partners, they will play them back.

    Problem is... Consumer pays for the protectionism.

    Google "Smoot–Hawley"

    #56 71 days ago
    Quoted from elcolonel:

    Which new regime? The increase on machines will be essentially split. Increase on domestic game prices will accelerate at a faster clip now.

    Not sure I follow what you're saying, but it seems reasonable for manufacturers (and buyers) to hope that whatever trade dispute spurred this 25% tariff will get a fresh look and may be resolved after January 20.

    #57 71 days ago

    Its short term political positioning, IMO.
    They are pushing the new administration to make changes using the "easy to win" Trade war game.
    I believe it will be short lived.

    -5
    #58 71 days ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    Its short term political positioning, IMO.
    They are pushing the new administration to make changes using the "easy to win" Trade war game.
    I believe it will be short lived.

    Why should they? Doesn't that $ go right to the US Treasury via general budget to fund education, health care and climate change?

    #59 71 days ago
    Quoted from Methos:

    Why should they? Doesn't that $ go right to the US Treasury via general budget to fund education, health care and climate change?

    EU tariffs on American goods go into EU treasuries.

    #60 71 days ago
    Quoted from Methos:

    Why should they? Doesn't that $ go right to the US Treasury via general budget to fund education, health care and climate change?

    US Tariffs, say on China, are paid by US importing companies into US Gov. How they are budgeted out is another story.
    The EU tariff here, and specific to Pinheads, is the cost increase of a Minimum of 25% to their bottom line on an imported pin.
    (There are fees, above the 25%)

    The question really is when tariffs are used in theory to help local companies compete with overseas, in this case, Boeing.
    They are also used for revenue, of course.
    So while there is a long term dispute on this, the new tariff is also used as a "weapon", to force a change in US Policies.
    The hope is for negotiation. This step is always needed.

    #61 71 days ago
    Quoted from Methos:

    Why should they? Doesn't that $ go right to the US Treasury via general budget to fund education, health care and climate change?

    Yeah, as others noted, this is an EU tariff, not a US tariff.
    And I think you mean to fund waste, graft, and interest on debt.

    #62 71 days ago
    Quoted from RCA1:

    Yeah, as others noted, this is an EU tariff, not a US tariff.
    And I think you mean to fund waste, graft, and interest on debt.

    Lol, sadly true....

    -9
    #63 71 days ago
    Quoted from RCA1:

    Yeah, as others noted, this is an EU tariff, not a US tariff.
    And I think you mean to fund waste, graft, and interest on debt.

    I'm guessing that the revenue collected by the EU also goes into their general budgets to support infrastructure, health care, etc?

    Assuming this is the case, don't understand the criticism. I know it hits our pocket book - but climate change is every country's responsibility. If it pays interest on debt, it has to come from somewhere..Isn't it for the greater good?

    #64 71 days ago
    Quoted from Methos:

    Our elected leaders are using the latest science and data available to them to make the best decision for us. Let's just take a deep breath and not be hasty in our judgements.

    Tariffs quickly can turn into tit-for-tat and backfire. Tariffs were one of the driving forces that augured in the Great Depression in the 30s.

    You put tariffs on my products coming to your country. Look here at my middle finger salute as I boost tariffs on the stuff you are shipping to us.

    And pretty soon products are loaded up with tariffs to a price that no one can afford to buy anything.

    To get around EU tariffs, Harley-Davidson moved some production to the UK.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-it-doesnt-matter-if-a-harley-davidson-is-made-in-america/

    " Harley-Davidson was one of the president's favorite companies less than six months ago. Now it's the latest business to feel his wrath."

    "That's because on June 25, Harley-Davidson announced it will move some of its production overseas. The iconic American motorcycle brand said it was doing this to avoid retaliatory tariffs imposed by the European Union in response to U.S. import taxes."

    #65 71 days ago

    Tariffs have always been a huge political issue in the United States going back to 1776. That was one of the main issues early presidents dealt with other than foreign/indeginous wars. You had the north that wanted tariffs to protect their industrial base, but the tariffs hurt the south. Many presidential/congressional campaigns were focused on this issue.

    #66 71 days ago

    Let's see the bright side: no tariff increase on Homepin. Thunderbirds for the win!!

    I kid, I kid...

    #67 71 days ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    So while there is a long term dispute on this, the new tariff is also used as a "weapon", to force a change in US Policies.
    The hope is for negotiation. This step is always needed.

    Indeed. EU did not start this war... it's a retaliation against new taxes on EU goods.
    Your Cognac is more expensive.
    My Pinball is more expensive.
    Everyone loses.

    #68 71 days ago
    Quoted from jlm33:

    Everyone loses.

    Maybe you can ask TH Bergmann to reopen

    #69 71 days ago
    Quoted from jlm33:

    Let's see the bright side: no tariff increase on Homepin. Thunderbirds for the win!!
    I kid, I kid...

    Ah but you have to think about it from all angles, I mean if someone had a gun to your head and said you must order a pin right now!

    Would you take the 25% hit or go with a thunderbirds? No way I’d pay the 25% extra so I’d seriously be considering the bullet before buying a thunderbirds

    #70 71 days ago
    Quoted from jlm33:Let's see the bright side: no tariff increase on Homepin. Thunderbirds for the win!!

    Quoted from J85M:

    Would you take the 25% hit or go with a thunderbirds?

    I think Celts by Haggis in Australia would be a better option here

    #71 70 days ago
    Quoted from ReadyPO:

    I think Celts by Haggis in Australia would be a better option here

    Luckily for us in the U.K. this tariff should hopefully end on Jan 1st when we officially leave the EU.

    I’ve had a lot of great pinheads in Europe help me out with stuff in the past, so if any of those guys need something and that 25% is going to make it un-buyable for them, I’ll happily ship them some pinball stuff marked as Made in the U.K.

    #72 70 days ago

    We have to make a new special EU version of the meme.... "12.5K by Christmas"....

    #73 70 days ago
    Quoted from J85M:

    Luckily for us in the U.K. this tariff should hopefully end on Jan 1st when we officially leave the EU.
    I’ve had a lot of great pinheads in Europe help me out with stuff in the past, so if any of those guys need something and that 25% is going to make it un-buyable for them, I’ll happily ship them some pinball stuff marked as Made in the U.K.

    That's very kind from you, could be VERY useful for expensive spare parts too.

    #74 70 days ago
    Quoted from Crrispy:

    That's very kind from you, could be VERY useful for expensive spare parts too.

    No problem at all mate! We get absolutely hammered already on the price of pins in Europe and the U.K, this new 25% tariff makes buying games impossible to justify, unless your one of those with bottomless pockets and more money than sense.

    The fact it hits parts/anything made in the U.S. is a major strain on EU pinheads and the businesses that rely on a lot of sales to the EU, got to look out for eachother, governments sure as shit won’t.

    #75 70 days ago

    I just had a game (expensive one) in transit from the USA. I’ll probably get taxed so I’m looking into returning it to the US.... I didn’t realize this when I bought it (2 weeks ago).

    #76 70 days ago
    Quoted from Faust:

    I just had a game (expensive one) in transit from the USA. I’ll probably get taxed so I’m looking into returning it to the US.... I didn’t realize this when I bought it (2 weeks ago).

    Yes me too !
    I have ordered a GnR LE the 7th of Oktober from Freddy.
    I hope this 25% extra is only for NIB games that have been ordered after.
    Maybe someone knows this ??

    #77 70 days ago

    The way I read into the info on our Gov website is that anything that arrives at customs after 10/11/20 is subject to the tariff tax.

    It’s definitely worth calling your local import/excise and confirm if it will effect you, knowing these governments we have they will return your item but still expect you to pay the bill for all their hard work handling it.

    #78 70 days ago
    Quoted from Faust:

    I just had a game (expensive one) in transit from the USA. I’ll probably get taxed so I’m looking into returning it to the US.... I didn’t realize this when I bought it (2 weeks ago).

    From what I heard it's not when the game was already in transit..

    #79 70 days ago
    Quoted from aeneas:

    From what I heard it's not when the game was already in transit..

    Yeah the date it lands seems to be when you get hit, so anything arriving after 10/11/20 is going to be subject to the new tariff rates.

    No idea how the EU think this is going to help EU business that rely on trade with the U.S. anyone who’s business involves buying anything subject to the new tariffs from the U.S. like Freddys, pu-parts etc, it’s going to hit them hard.

    #80 70 days ago

    Well mine was planned fortransport, but not picked up yet.
    Now my new plan is to keep it in the US in storage until the tariff is removed. 25% is senseless (note that after this you get also a 21% VAT if it’s a private purchase).
    So suppose you buy a part of 100 euro, then its 125 after the tariff making it roughly 150.
    To make it extra fun: shipment costs are taken into this calcation.

    So normally when I buy mods from
    the US I get the 21% only over value+shipment.
    So people can’t buy mods at normal prices either anymore.

    This rule does exactly what it is supposed to: stop everyone from buying anything from these category of items.

    #81 70 days ago
    Quoted from Faust:

    Well mine was planned fortransport, but not picked up yet.
    Now my new plan is to keep it in the US in storage until the tariff is removed. 25% is senseless (note that after this you get also a 21% VAT if it’s a private purchase).
    So suppose you buy a part of 100 euro, then its 125 after the tariff making it roughly 150.
    To make it extra fun: shipment costs are taken into this calcation.
    So normally when I buy mods from
    the US I get the 21% only over value+shipment.
    So people can’t buy mods at normal prices either anymore.
    This rule does exactly what it is supposed to: stop everyone from buying anything from these category of items.

    As of next year mate order the stuff send it to my UK address and I’ll send it over to you with “made in the U.K” printed on the box, EU can suck it on that 25%!

    #82 70 days ago

    This will be a big hit to the pinball industry, perhaps more than was anticipated given that pinball is lumped in with other gaming industries that are affected. I’d venture to guess that the E.U. market might represent 15% of global pinball sales and that the market for new games is about $1 billion annually (15000 games produced/year x $6500 average price). If the EU market dries up, that’s $150 million potentially gone. Totally guessing on the numbers so take them with a large grain of salt, but there is no doubt this will hit hard. Think about manufacturers that have sales for games not built yet, but pre-sold/committed, and all the parts they bought to build those games, now could be a loss. The whole thing is crazy, done by politicians who have no idea the impacts that they are causing, just trying to grab headlines. We can only hope that cooler heads will prevail. This would be a great time for the industry to band together and make their voices heard. All the manufacturers in Illinois should be all over their elected officials.

    #83 70 days ago

    Link?

    If this is true, it's the smothering death for pinball in the eu.

    #84 70 days ago

    Time for a few more (Br)exits?

    #85 70 days ago
    Quoted from Dr-pin:

    Link?
    If this is true, it's the smothering death for pinball in the eu.

    https://www.pinballnews.com/site/2020/11/12/eu-imposes-pinball-tariff/

    #88 70 days ago

    We might see a return to normal for some tariffs once this occurs...

    #89 70 days ago
    Quoted from Nysbadmk8:

    We might see a return to normal for some tariffs once this occurs...

    Time will tell.

    #90 70 days ago

    At least Gary Stern will be able to catch up
    On his 5000 pin backlog..

    #91 70 days ago

    Which will probably be around 1000 now as no EU sales..

    #92 70 days ago

    Big government and taxes suck!! They hurt businesses. Vote properly people!!!

    #93 70 days ago
    Quoted from J85M:

    As of next year mate order the stuff send it to my UK address and I’ll send it over to you with “made in the U.K” printed on the box, EU can suck it on that 25%!

    Stupid Move False declarations will cause the game to be seized and a big fine and tax Fraud

    Do you really think they are stupid to think the game was made in the UK

    #94 70 days ago
    Quoted from Ballypinball:

    Stupid Move False declarations will cause the game to be seized and a big fine and tax Fraud
    Do you really think they are stupid to think the game was made in the UK

    I'm pretty damn sure J85M was joking. Why is everyone so serious?

    #95 69 days ago

    So, I guess you hope that the American Dollar plunges against the Euro and your purchasing power increases to offset the added tax? Although to offset 25% that pretty unimaginable.

    I remember when I bought my GoT nib, from when I ordered it, to when I received (purchased) the game our Canadian dollar dropped and my cost changed to almost a grand more expensive. The game was the same price in US$, it just cost more in Canada.

    #96 68 days ago

    I told you, but it sucks.

    Screenshot_20201116_140132_com.android.chrome (resized).jpg

    #97 67 days ago

    For those who still doubt if it’s true, see attachment.

    Freigjt forwarder also confirmed that I will be charged.

    My shipment got cancelled fortunately.

    https://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2019/april/tradoc_157861.pdf

    6D005986-9035-4AB7-BB23-78EF9F82D419 (resized).png

    #98 67 days ago

    I doubt the pinball manufacturers will mind; if only 15% is export and export drops with 40-50% then Gary Stern’s 5000 games backlog shrinks just with a tiny bit hehe

    #99 67 days ago

    It should be illegal to call them “pintables”.

    #100 67 days ago
    Quoted from Faust:

    I doubt the pinball manufacturers will mind; if only 15% is export and export drops with 40-50% then Gary Stern’s 5000 games backlog shrinks just with a tiny bit hehe

    Could be misreading your post but isn’t export about 60% of Sterns business?

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