(Topic ID: 281397)

25% punitive tariff on pinball machines for EU customers


By master_of_chaos

70 days ago



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  • 329 posts
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  • Latest reply 1 day ago by Dr-pin
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    There are 329 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 7.
    #1 70 days ago

    i just read, that the European Union just decided to add a 25% punitive tariff on gaming consoles and pinball machines.
    This will add 2500€ on a GNR LE pinball.

    What a clusterf*ck.

    Even if i had placed an order and payd 1000€ in front, i would cancel my order an would have saved 1500€ , if i replace an order if the punitive tariff is cancelled.

    #2 70 days ago

    My condolences from across the pond.

    #4 70 days ago

    Many in certain industries are already -Very- aware of the term, as well as the taxpayers who are subsidizing such tariffs already.

    #5 70 days ago

    The taxes EU countries put up with are crazy and not really sure what
    they accomplish other than hurting business.

    Yeah, its coming to the USA too. Its just a matter of how bad and how soon.

    #7 70 days ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    Many in certain industries are already -Very- aware of the term, as well as the taxpayers who are subsidizing such tariffs already.

    You are astute. The Americans to which I refer, are the 80% to 90%, that live their lives on Facebook. Draw your own conclusions, on my opinion of the plebiscite, political affiliations notwithstanding.

    #8 70 days ago

    WTF .... I read this news also today.
    I was in the process to order some parts for my TBL from mustangpaul but will wait until this punitive tarifs is from the table, but right now we are full in the shit.
    Stern and JJP will be hurt, thats for sure.
    Hopefully they will find a solution ....

    Good news .... DutchPinball is not involved

    #9 69 days ago
    Quoted from TomDK:

    WTF .... I read this news also today.
    I was in the process to order some parts for my TBL from mustangpaul but will wait until this punitive tarifs is from the table, but right now we are full in the shit.
    Stern and JJP will be hurt, thats for sure.
    Hopefully they will find a solution ....
    Good news .... DutchPinball is not involved

    Hi Tom, yes that's the shits isn't it and here your order is ready to go. Just WHAT are they thinking to kill business with ANOTHER tax like that. When is this gonna stop.

    #10 69 days ago
    Quoted from MustangPaul:

    Hi Tom, yes that's the shits isn't it and here your order is ready to go. Just WHAT are they thinking to kill business with ANOTHER tax like that. When is this gonna stop.

    looks like its a usa thing? is your country of origin suddenly taiwan perhaps?

    #11 69 days ago

    So few Manufactured products from the US I am not surprised. When the wine and cheese and unique European Products are targeted their has to be some retaliation.
    This is the nature of Tariffs. They usually escalate after producing some few gains.
    The alternative is to fully embrace a true global economic system with dictates, Not sure we are there yet.
    Folks getting territorial.

    #12 69 days ago

    Usually tariffs are to protect local goods. Except for Dutch Pinball, what are they protecting, or is it a money grab from the people that have disposable income?

    13
    #13 69 days ago
    Quoted from RyanStl:

    Usually tariffs are to protect local goods. Except for Dutch Pinball, what are they protecting, or is it a money grab from the people that have disposable income?

    It looks like it's part of some sort of trade dispute. I suspect that it's not intended to be permanent, but rather a means to apply pressure in a negotiation.

    -28
    #14 69 days ago

    Our elected leaders are using the latest science and data available to them to make the best decision for us. Let's just take a deep breath and not be hasty in our judgements.

    47
    #15 69 days ago
    Quoted from Methos:

    Our elected leaders are using the latest science and data available to them to make the best decision for us. Let's just take a deep breath and not be hasty in our judgements.

    You got to be kidding.

    #16 69 days ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    It looks like it's part of some sort of trade dispute. I suspect that it's not intended to be permanent, but rather a means to apply pressure in a negotiation.

    Yes, this is the european answer on punitive tarifs from US side.
    It all started, as I understand that, with supposed hidden promotions for Airbus, the answer were hidden promotions for Boeing. At the end we customers have to pay for that shit going on in the boardrooms of the big companies. Now we have taxes on gameconsoles, pinballs and parts , whisky , tomato ketchup and peanutbutter.
    Same for US industries on steal and metal products. This was decided to protect the US steelindustries. The joke is that the US side hits big european players, the european side hits mostly private persons.
    Hopefull this all will turn back.

    #17 69 days ago

    The document states:
    'These measures concern imports of products originating in the United States on which the European Union is not
    substantially dependent for its supply'

    So we could argue that Pinball machines are mostly manufactured in USA, or is Homepin, Haggis, and Dutchpinball now a substantial part of the manufacturing base? I think there is no alternative to Stern, JJP, Spooky, CGC, American Pinball. So let's see how this is interpreted. I would not draw conclusions that fast.

    Other way out would be for Stern to open a factory in EU. And ship half product to there and just do the assembly there. Like Tesla does.

    #18 69 days ago

    The genius of the EU is truly on display with this one, from reading the various articles it seems to be their idea of kicking back at Trump due to a breakdown in relations and trade negotiations.

    But all this does is hurt their own businesses in the EU that rely on products from the US, talking pinball there’s no way Stern and JJP will swallow up the increase at their end, so that will fall to the distributors and customers in the EU.

    Other than the guys with more money than sense, is anyone else over this side of the pond going to pay £8100 ($10,700) for a Pro!?

    Hopefully this is just temporary, otherwise Stern and JJP are going to take massive hits on orders, prices where already reaching a ceiling over this side of the pond, with this tariff prices just blew the roof off!

    #19 69 days ago

    Curious... does this effect prices of used machines? Is there going to be a surge of re-import import demand? Spike in demand for lightly used machines?

    15
    #20 69 days ago

    2020 sucks

    #21 69 days ago
    Quoted from sataneatscheese:

    Curious... does this effect prices of used machines? Is there going to be a surge of re-import import demand? Spike in demand for lightly used machines?

    I heard Used Games as well

    #22 69 days ago

    So should i buy a few machines and sell them later? 2.000 € profit for each machine!

    #25 69 days ago

    But he said that China is paying for the tariffs implemented here, not the people paying more for the Chinese products imported. By that logic doesn't it mean that the U.S. will be covering the increases in pinball prices for you EU guys?

    #26 69 days ago
    Quoted from MikeS:

    But he said that China is paying for the tariffs implemented here, not the people paying more for the Chinese products imported. By that logic doesn't it mean that the U.S. will be covering the increases in pinball prices for you EU guys?

    Can’t tell if you are being facetious, but the only people paying for the Chinese tariffs are the US importers and consumers. No Chinese company pays any tariff imposed by the US. The “billions” being collected by the US treasury are coming out of US taxpayer pockets. In many cases, the US doesn’t even produce the good subject to tariff so you have no choice but to buy from China and either the importer eats the cost of the tariff or passes it on to the consumer in the form of a higher price.

    These tariffs from the EU also affect parts and accessories, not just games. It will really hurt the pinball industry in the EU and those US companies who have customers in the EU.

    #27 69 days ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    Can’t tell if you are being facetious, but the only people paying for the Chinese tariffs are the US importers and consumers. No Chinese company pays any tariff imposed by the US. The “billions” being collected by the US treasury are coming out of US taxpayer pockets. In many cases, the US doesn’t even produce the good subject to tariff so you have no choice but to buy from China and either the importer eats the cost of the tariff or passes it on to the consumer in the form of a higher price.

    Sarcasm emoji added. I think most citizens have a better idea of how tariffs work than our elected officials.

    #28 69 days ago
    Quoted from MikeS:

    But he said that China is paying for the tariffs implemented here, not the people paying more for the Chinese products imported. By that logic doesn't it mean that the U.S. will be covering the increases in pinball prices for you EU guys?

    That was my first thought Stern and JJP will cover this for all their European customers... then I laughed and came back to reality

    #29 69 days ago

    The EU tariff includes game consoles. Why do they consider pinball machines game consoles?

    #31 69 days ago
    Quoted from luvthatapex2:

    The EU tariff includes game consoles. Why do they consider pinball machines game consoles?

    the tariff code refers to coin-operated games and video games.

    #32 69 days ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    the tariff code refers to coin-operated games and video games.

    leave the coininsert from my machine then Home use is always free play

    #33 68 days ago
    Quoted from PeterG:

    leave the coininsert from my machine then Home use is always free play

    That would be the simple solution.
    Just put a blank door on the games, no coin operation, problem solved.

    #34 68 days ago

    Wow, most distributors in Germany stopped their orders on new machines. This might be a bigger thing for pinball than i thought.

    #35 68 days ago

    It's happened at a good time for Stern and JJP... they have a big backlog of non-EU demand... so they can shift their work and take up the slack of missing EU orders with other orders.

    For now...

    Long term though, the EU market is a huge segment for Stern especially.

    #36 68 days ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    That would be the simple solution.
    Just put a blank door on the games, no coin operation, problem solved.

    Nope, you forgot absolut the TFT Displays..

    #37 68 days ago

    Another way to look at it..... all the Pinballs already in EU have just gone up 25%

    #38 68 days ago

    As if the continuing upward spiral in the cost of international postage wasn't damaging enough to small US-based businesses trying to have their products. Used to be small, light items could go in a padded envelope for about $3.50 worldwide. That class of mail is now restricted to documents and the smalls take priority mail which starts at $35. So postage has gone up 10x and now the products are going up 1.25x... jeez.

    -Rob
    -visit https://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or my Pinball 2000 H+V Video Sync Combiner kit

    #39 68 days ago

    So what happens to orders paid for before the tariff increase but the container has not arrived yet?

    Your $7,700 Premium now costs $9,625?!

    This sucks for EU pinball owners.

    #40 68 days ago

    I don’t think anything can clear customs if the tariff isn’t paid regardless of when the order was made. Can’t say I’m 100% on that, but I believe that’s how it works.

    #41 68 days ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    I don’t think anything can clear customs if the tariff isn’t paid regardless of when the order was made. Can’t say I’m 100% on that, but I believe that’s how it works.

    That is the way it works. The tariff is applied the day it reaches port, not the day it is ordered or the day it leaves the US port.

    #42 68 days ago
    Quoted from luvthatapex2:

    The EU tariff includes game consoles. Why do they consider pinball machines game consoles?

    So really a tariff on Japan. They make the consoles or maybe all made in China, so Tariff on China. I don't think they thought tax Pinball, which is really the only truly American made product in this category.

    #43 68 days ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    I don’t think anything can clear customs if the tariff isn’t paid regardless of when the order was made. Can’t say I’m 100% on that, but I believe that’s how it works.

    No, if the order was on the water or in the air by 11/11/2020 it won't attract the charge. This is the UK position anyway. It is under the conditions element of the law passed.

    The UK will revert back to 0% as of the 1.1.2021 as things currently stand. You can read my take on it as someone who has just set up a supply business for the UK for spares, I also managed to get a statement from the main NIB supplier here in the UK. Really, at this time I feel for NIB owners and people looking to mod or upgrade their machine in the EU. As well as all those whose business is to supply these items. I doubt that 25% in increased revenue (which won't be there, becuase it will just hammer demand) - will be redistributed to the affected industries to prop them up.

    https://www.theukpinballclub.co.uk/news/25-pinball-tariff-on-all-usa-imports-to-eu/

    #44 68 days ago

    With this tax applied, the pro model from Stern will be something around 9800/10000$.

    Pray for us

    #45 68 days ago
    Quoted from November:

    With this tax applied, the pro model from Stern will be something around 9800/10000$.
    Pray for us

    As per my article - "At current exchange rates, that makes a JJP GNR $11492.32 in USD."

    #46 68 days ago
    Quoted from JamesUK:

    The UK will revert back to 0% as of the 1.1.2021 as things currently stand. /

    You a refering to Brexit I assume?
    Would it be possible for UK distributors to sell stuff to other countries after that and dodge the tariff?

    #47 68 days ago

    Who wants to join my new pinball smuggling scheme?
    Also, anyone know a way to hide a pinball machine in my luggage? (Asking for a friend.)

    24
    #48 68 days ago
    Quoted from RCA1:

    Also, anyone know a way to hide a pinball machine in my luggage? (Asking for a friend.)

    This should do the job.

    image-asset (resized).jpeg
    #49 68 days ago

    Incendium (Stern Heavy Metal) told me EU orders are paid for. Distributors can opt to hold off shipping for now.
    Hoping the new regime will settle things.

    #50 68 days ago

    Which new regime? The increase on machines will be essentially split. Increase on domestic game prices will accelerate at a faster clip now.

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