(Topic ID: 266948)

2020 Recap - Greatest Pinball Game of All-Time - Tournament Edition

By AFM95

4 years ago


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  • 68 posts
  • 21 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by LukyDuck
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “Should we do this next year?”

    • Yes 83 votes
      90%
    • No 9 votes
      10%

    (92 votes)

    Topic Gallery

    View topic image gallery

    Capture Rankings (resized).JPG
    Re-Rankings by Voting.JPG
    Pinball Records vs. Manufacturer.JPG
    Record by Era.JPG
    NonCannibalism Record by Manufacturer.JPG
    Record by Company.JPG
    Vote Stats.JPG
    Sweet Sixteen Bracket.JPG
    BracketBottom.JPG
    BracketTop.JPG
    Round 6 Results.JPG
    Round 5 Results.JPG
    Round 4 Results.JPG
    Round 3 Results.JPG
    Round 2 Results.JPG
    Round 1 Results.JPG

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    11
    #1 4 years ago

    Hi Everyone,

    First off, I want to thank every single Pinsider who voted. If it wasn't for you guys, this would have flopped.

    Now for the million dollar question, should we do this next year? Feel free to vote in the poll or leave a comment below. I'm also open to feedback. No promises, as I'd like to avoid reinventing the wheel, but there could be some ideas where we can tweak the formula.

    With that aside, congrats to all Attack from Mars owners. You own the great pin of all-time... well, according to Pinside. Oh, and we all know Pinside is always right. Kidding aside, I think we can come to the conclusion from the voting that there are a lot of great pins out there that have great flow, fun themes, awesome bash toys, easy rules for newbs - there is really something for everyone.

    Again, thank you to all who participated and I hope you enjoy this as much as I did. Stay safe everyone.

    #2 4 years ago

    Final Bracket, including Final 16 bracket for better visibility.

    BracketTop.JPGBracketTop.JPGBracketBottom.JPGBracketBottom.JPGSweet Sixteen Bracket.JPGSweet Sixteen Bracket.JPG
    #3 4 years ago

    Results for Rounds 1-6:

    Round 1 Results.JPGRound 1 Results.JPGRound 2 Results.JPGRound 2 Results.JPGRound 3 Results.JPGRound 3 Results.JPGRound 4 Results.JPGRound 4 Results.JPGRound 5 Results.JPGRound 5 Results.JPGRound 6 Results.JPGRound 6 Results.JPG
    #4 4 years ago

    Statistics
    ________________________________

    1. A total of 21,424 votes were recorded, with a peak of 637 Pinsiders voting in Round 5. (See attachment #1 below)

    2. 52nd ranked Fish Tales provided the biggest upset of the tournament, edging out 13th ranked Elvira's House of Horrors - 54% to 46%.

    3. Largest margin of victory was by 2nd ranked Medieval Madness over 63rd ranked Indianapolis 500 in the 1st Round by a whopping margin - 90% to 10%.

    4. Bally takes home the title of "Best Record by Pinball Company," winning 57.1% of their matches. JJP takes 2nd winning 54.4% of hteir matches, followed by Williams in 3rd at 54.2%, and Stern in 4th place winning 53.1%. (See attachment #2)

    5. Continuing with "Best Record by Pinball Company," if we throw out matches where pinball manufacturers face themselves (eliminate cannibalism), the ranking order does not change, only their winning percentage. A total of 14 matches were thrown out in this scenario. (See attachment #3)

    6. From a winning percentage (and let's be honest, Lord of the Rings carried this category), "Record by Era" title goes to 2000-2009, winning 63.6% of their matchups. 1990-1999 took 2nd winning 50.8% of their matches, and 2010-2019 took 3rd at 47.3%. (See attachment #4)

    7. We had four main pinball companies that took up most of the Top 64. How did they fare against each other? By best overall winning percentage, Williams was the best at 54.2%, Bally in second at 50.0%, Stern in third at 46.2%, and JJP in fourth at 44.4%. You can see how each manufacturer did against each other by looking below. (See attachment #5)

    8. Last but not least, new rankings. How this was determined was from three variables. First, #1-#4 was done by your voting. Next, I went backwards through each round, starting with the Round 4, then Round 3, and so on. In these rounds, I ranked them based on who had the highest percent of vote in their losing matchup. For example, in Round 3, Iron Maiden is at the top of Tier 3 because it had 48% of its vote in its losing matchup. Next was Metallica because it had 45% of the vote in their losing matching. Following Metallica, it was Star Trek (Williams) who had 42%, Deadpool 35%, and so on. Then I took the same logic, starting at #33-#64 by using the consolation bracket. It wasn't a perfect science using the highest percentage of votes in a losing matchup; however, the strong games typically hold up better in any matchup, even if it loses. You can see the results below using my formula. (See attachment #6)

    Vote Stats.JPGVote Stats.JPG
    Record by Company.JPGRecord by Company.JPGNonCannibalism Record by Manufacturer.JPGNonCannibalism Record by Manufacturer.JPGRecord by Era.JPGRecord by Era.JPG
    Pinball Records vs. Manufacturer.JPGPinball Records vs. Manufacturer.JPG
    Re-Rankings by Voting.JPGRe-Rankings by Voting.JPG

    #5 4 years ago

    Index - All Links
    _____________

    "Greatest Pinball Game of All-Time - Tournament Edition - 2020"

    Round 1 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/greatest-pinball-game-of-all-time-tournament-edition

    Round 2 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/round-2-greatest-pinball-game-of-all-time-tournament-edition

    Round 3 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/round-3-greatest-pinball-game-of-all-time-tournament-edition

    Round 4 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/round-4-greatest-pinball-game-of-all-time-tournament-edition

    Round 5 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/final-four-greatest-pinball-game-of-all-time-tournament-edition

    Round 6 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-finals-greatest-pinball-game-of-all-time-tournament-edition

    3rd Place Voting - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/3rd-place-voting-greatest-pinball-game-of-all-time-te
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________

    "Consolation Bracket - Greatest Pinball Game of All-Time - Tournament Edition - 2020"

    Round 1 - Non-existent - Round 1 above had to be completed to determine the consolation bracket.

    Round 2 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/consolation-bracket-greatest-pinball-game-of-all-time-te

    Round 3 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/consolation-bracket-round-3-greatest-pinball-game-of-all-time-te

    Round 4 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/consolation-bracket-round-4-greatest-pinball-game-of-all-time-te

    Round 5 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/consolation-bracket-final-4-greatest-pinball-game-of-all-time-te

    Round 6 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/consolation-bracket-final-greatest-pinball-game-of-all-time-te

    #7 4 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    You did it the right way of keeping it on site, at times before it was linked to a bracket manager or something somewhere else and many are lost to history.
    Also, all games should be eligible again next year.
    EM bracket as well.
    Thread title with the year
    Not a fan of the consolation Brackets personally, it's a bit much.
    Great job

    Thank you for the feedback TheLaw . I have also updated all topic threads as you requested with "2020" in them for easy reference (although the Index Links above should suffice).

    #11 4 years ago

    Wrapping a few more stats guys, then the recap will be completely. I appreciate your patience.

    #12 4 years ago

    All right - this thread recap is officially complete.

    Again, I appreciate everyone's support and kind words.

    Please take a minute to review the final bracket, results, and stats.

    From the looks of it, most people would like to see this done again. My thoughts would be sometime in February, since it's cold, not much is going on, and people are still typically hanging out at home.

    Until then, take care everyone!

    #14 4 years ago
    Quoted from Dr-pin:

    Thanks a whole lot to AFM95 for all the fine work you have put into this.

    Thanks Dr-pin!

    I'm wondering who the two people who voted "no, we shouldn't do this again next year." If I had to guess, o-din must be one of them.

    #20 4 years ago
    Quoted from NevadaNutJob:

    I think following the sports tourney seeding is flawed - putting #1 against #64 is designed to reward 1 with an automatic win and trip to round two . It makes much of the tournament a foregone conclusion . I would rather see a random seeding . The best games will still make it to the end ( mostly except when they meet early ) but the rest of the match-ups become more interesting and give us something to discuss . It was good fun tho and would like to see it continue . Thanks !

    You make a good point. It rewards good teams (in our instance - rewards top rated pins) an easy path to victory. Although we had some random upsets, there weren't many.

    I like your idea. Playing devil's advocate though, I think randomizing matchups, although exciting, completely changes the dynamic of the tournament. What if the "randomizer" matched up MM versus AFM in the first round? I'm assuming a good chunk of Pinsiders would dislike that. Also, by not having heavyweights in the later rounds because of a poor draw, typically your audience will lose general interest later in the tournament. From the number of Pinsiders who voted per round, more and more joined the vote as the top pins started facing each other.

    I wonder if we could do a matchup randomizer, but allow the Top 16 pins to retain their "seed," while the other 48 get randomly assigned. That would avoid a MM versus AFM, but MM or AFM could face a tougher matchup against Star Trek, Dialed In, Spider-Man, for example in the 1st Round.

    #30 4 years ago
    Quoted from titanpenguin:

    I voted no because I think it’s to arbitrary. It’s basically a popularity contest. It doesn’t really reflect how good a game really is.

    I'm giving you an upvote for honesty.

    #32 4 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Yep, I'd hate to be one of those guys that uses the pinside top 100 or any of these polls as a reference when buying games for myself.

    I think where I see the value of the Top 100, it gives newbs a chance to get familiar with the most popular games.

    But to your point, and I think I posted this in Round 1's thread, I consider NBA Fastbreak as a Top 20 game personality. Most people would laugh at that. But again, as you said (and I agree), you should be buying on personal preference and what you like to play.

    #33 4 years ago
    Quoted from ViperJelly:

    Thanks for the effort AFM95, was a lot of fun.
    But...I would like an independent committee to investigate the results. AFM won and the tournament that was run by....AFM95.
    Coincidence? Probably

    Haha! Someone did PM me about that. They said I was potentially sending subliminal messages to vote for AFM. They were saying it in jest of course.

    Do you want to be president of that committee? Or should we be formal about it and hire a law firm?

    #45 4 years ago
    Quoted from titanpenguin:

    I really appreciate the time and effort you put into this. It’s a fun concept. I just wish it was based on something more than what’s most popular at the moment.

    Thanks @titanpenguin. I agree, it has been fun.

    To your point, maybe anything that is released in the last six months is excluded to avoid "the new hot pin" popularity.

    If you have any ideas, or out of the box suggestions, feel free to share.

    #50 4 years ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    I do agree that its a bit of a popularity contest, but the classics are still at the top (remakes or not). The only way to really do this contest, and address your issue is to have it done by era....whats really impressive about MM, AFM, TZ, IJ, LOTR, and MB is that they have stood the test of time

    I don't think we need to break the bracket down by era (if we're talking the last 30 years), because the data shows that the 90's and 10's (weird to say), were fairly equal when matching up against each other. Same goes for manufacturer - not one was significantly better than the other.

    However, I could see eliminating any new game (not remakes) from the contest that has been produced in the last six months to a year. This way, we can avoid popular games that haven't been vetted out yet. I do see some value here.

    As other Pinsiders have mentioned, the Top 10 gets littered with the "latest and greatest" pins that get released, only to see those games slink down quite a few spots after a few months of game play in the wild.

    #53 4 years ago
    Quoted from mbeardsley:

    I agree, not to mention that there are a lot of "new" games that are hard to find in the wild. It took me a long time to find a place that had a JP to play, and the one place that has it is not close by.

    You're right. A lot of the games, especially new ones are hard to find on location. It really depends where you live from an access standpoint. We're lucky to have SS Billiards & Tilt (along with a few others) in Minneapolis - usually you can find the newest releases there.

    Going back to the bracket, most probably haven't played all 64 pins. It's hard to do. On top of that, even playing it on location 10x doesn't give you a good feel of how good the game really is.

    At the end of the day, there is no exact science as we could slice and dice a bracket 100 different ways. However, it doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.

    #56 4 years ago

    First off, you have a fantastic username.

    Thank you for the kind words. It will be interesting to see how people feel about JP2 a year from now.

    #58 4 years ago
    Quoted from mbeardsley:

    Umm...no. You don't seem to understand. Those games were at the top of the list (like TZ for example) even before they were remade (and therefore not "in production"). Yes, new games do tend to enjoy a "honeymoon phase", but MM, MB, and AFM are not at the top of the list because of it. They were there long before their "re-make honeymoon" and will likely be there long after the remake production finishes.

    I don't want to speak on Titanpenguin's behalf, but what I think he means is that AFM, MM, and MB have all been remade recently, which reinvigorates excitement to those games.

    To your point, which I agree with, they have been classics well before their remakes, and should be top games in the future. I don't believe the remakes of these classic games swung the vote one way or another.

    #67 4 years ago
    Quoted from ectobar:

    So since everyone is bored, why wait until next year?
    Shuffle the initial seedings and start it over now. Then when it's over we could argue over the 2 sets of data plus their averages.

    Because it takes a lot of time behind the scenes to track, manually produce, record, and publish the data.

    I also feel the law of diminishing returns comes into play here if we fired up a new bracket right away.

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