(Topic ID: 233111)

2019 New Pinball purchase will be taxed.


By mnpinball

3 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 585 posts
  • 153 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by Buzz
  • Topic is favorited by 17 Pinsiders

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    Topic index (key posts)

    8 key posts have been marked in this topic

    Post #297 Comments from a distributor. Posted by KingPinGames (3 months ago)

    Post #304 More info from a distributor. Posted by KingPinGames (3 months ago)

    Post #355 Economic nexus test, uses Louisiana as an example. Posted by iceman44 (3 months ago)

    Post #415 Comment from distributor. Posted by Gexchange (3 months ago)

    Post #465 State by state tracker. Posted by flynnibus (3 months ago)

    Post #505 Some expierence for 2019 and suggestions. Posted by Pinzap (3 months ago)

    Post #513 Break down of thresholds state by state Posted by Hemispheres (3 months ago)


    Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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    #61 3 months ago
    Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

    If it were just 50 different tax rates for the 50 different states, it wouldn't be quite that bad. At least in MN, the tax rate can be different from county to county and also city to city. It's not just 50 tax rates you need to keep track of. It could literally be thousands.

    You are 100% correct Bryan. Walker, MN (Leech Lake) has the highest sales tax of 8.875%, while the lowest tax by any county or city is 6.875%. Minneapolis is at 8.025%.

    I don't know what the new laws say about collecting sales taxes on Internet purchases, but I feel for the small businesses out there that have to track it.

    #64 3 months ago
    Quoted from WackyBrakke:

    You should support local businesses. I buy my games from Game Exchange, even before the tax collection rules went into place.

    Says the guy with the 6th lowest state sales taxes.

    Kidding aside, I know the taxes are higher than that in Colorado depending on the local sales taxes that are added in, correct? I believe the rough average is right around 7.5%?

    #72 3 months ago

    I'm curious to what everyone's thoughts are about what will happen with the pricing in the secondary market?

    DILE for example, was $9,000 NIB (with no sales tax). The rough estimate for resale currently is $8,000 give or take. If I bought DILE today NIB, it's going to be $9,675 (with a 7.5% sales tax).

    Does the NIB buyer eat the extra $675? Will a few hundred extra dollars be built into the resale price?

    It will be interesting to see how the secondary market evolves moving forward.

    #78 3 months ago
    Quoted from flashinstinct:

    Wait you guys have different tax brackets within the state of Colorado as well. So Federal tax and then a varying state tax pending where you live within that state?

    Four states in the US have no sales tax. Every other state has a "baseline" sales tax (which is different than the taxes you pay to the state and federal government on your paycheck). Local counties and cities can add taxes to that "baseline" tax.

    For example, the lowest sales tax in Minnesota is 6.875%. In Minneapolis, it's just over 8%. That extra 1.2% tax is to help for other amenities in Minneapolis like roads, sports stadiums, and other local government programs.

    With that said, there are even more taxes on certain goods/items. Liquor gets taxed at an extra 2.5%, restaurants downtown charge an extra 3% on your food bill, hotel rooms get extra taxes, etc.

    #95 3 months ago
    Quoted from flashinstinct:

    So If I get this right.
    Let's say I live in an area close to Minneapolis that only charges the baseline tax and someone from Minneapolis buys something from my online store. I would have to charge the baseline tax + the Minneapolis tax?

    That I am not sure. I don't know if the tax law would be based on the baseline state tax on where your store is, or if you would have to charge me the tax to where I live .

    #271 3 months ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    The top 10 percent have NO IDEA how bad the bottom 45 percent have it.

    Can I politely ask if you've ever lived in a 2nd or 3rd world country? I have, and most of the bottom 45 percent have it pretty good in the United States.

    #323 3 months ago
    Quoted from bigdaddy07:

    Here's a pretty good read on this.
    https://blog.taxjar.com/economic-nexus-laws/
    Make all the judgments you want, but for me, what keeps me in NIB purchases is not as much the price of the pin overall, but the hit I'm willing to take whenever I decide to sell. Losing potentially ~1k or so after playing and enjoying the game for 2+ years, is acceptable to me. I consider this against other areas where discretionary funds could be spent like boats, autos, and RVs. Pinball is cheap and can be played all year and not just seasonal. However, things like shipping and taxes throws that off a bit, as those funds, generally, are not recouped on resale. So throwing another $700 plus $300 shipping on a new JJP game, already sets up a 1k loss out of the gates. I live in Missouri, which appears to have no Nexus law in place at this time, so I'm still in the same boat as before. However, once that changes, I'll have to rethink my own spending on NIB purchases.

    I'm in the same thought process as you. If I sell my DILE today, I would take a $1,000 loss which I'm okay with.

    If I bought a DILE now at $9,700, I'm now taking a massive $1,700 hit when I sell (not including $300 for shipping if you paid for it).

    1. That makes me wonder if the secondary market will see an increase in price on NIB games.
    2. I will be much more cautious on what I buy, the frequency that I buy NIB, and I will certainly hold on to my NIB longer.

    11
    #432 3 months ago

    luckydogg420

    Not to pick on you, but because you've been the most vocal on this thread, this response is pointed to you.

    Your over the top political commentary needs to stop. No one likes someone spilling their political views all over a thread, especially pushing their agenda, telling everyone else what they should or shouldn't do. This "moral obligation" point you keep making is a detractor from the thread and is pissing people off.

    We get it. You lean left, believe everyone should have access to everything even if they don't pay for it (i.e. healthcare), and if you make more money than others, you should pay more taxes, etc., etc., etc. That's great, that's your opinion, and I respect that. However, you need to remember that half of the world will disagree with you on every viewpoint you have, and they're not wrong either.

    My ask (and I'm sure some others would like this too) is to stay on topic moving forward. This new tax law is a big deal here in the US and most of us are trying to figure out what the best options are for us moving forward.

    Thank you Luckydogg.

    #492 3 months ago
    Quoted from rai:

    Maybe some people won’t but some will do whatever the hell they want.

    rai zablon

    I think both of you guys make some great points.

    Although I'm just one guy, with one opinion, I believe a decent chunk of the pinball community has the same sentiment as I do. I'll give you my example.

    I have a strict three pin lineup: WOZ, AFMr LE and DILE. WOZ and AFMr are bolted for awhile. My third game, DILE (which I love BTW), is my rotational game. My plan was to rotate that game out every year, replacing it with a NIB, most likely with a JJP each time. Here's where the conundrum comes into play.

    1. I'm already paying a hefty sum of $9,000 for a NIB pin. Resale value will typically be about 85%-90% of what you paid for it after a year (unless it's the Thunderbirds of course). It pains me to pay $9,000 in cash for a pin, let alone knowing I'm taking a 10%-15% hit a year later.

    2. Now we add in the 6.825% sales tax (for Minnesota), and my all-in cost is $9600+ for a DILE if I purchased it in 2019. OUCH. At the price for any NIB, I'm probably out.

    3. What happens in the resale market? Are folks going to pay $8500-$8700 for my DILE? Or is the expectation that it still should be around $8,000 and I need to eat that 6.825% sales tax? It will be interesting to see how the market changes, but to be frank, when #2 happens, I'm probably out on NIB and consistently buying as a 2nd owner.

    4. Another point to make is competition. If I'm buying my DILE with sales tax, there are states around me that haven't implemented the nexus law, or they have a lower sales tax than Minnesota, that puts me at a huge disadvantage when selling my game. It gets even worse when I open up the purchase to anyone in the US. A seller in Oregon, New Hampshire, Montana, or Delaware can sell their DILE at a lower price than I ever could, forcing me to take on 100% of the sales tax I paid.

    I hope that gives some insight to my thought process. Unless there is a second "holy grail" pin being created, I'm probably either A) hanging on to my NIB for a lot longer, or B) I'm on the sidelines waiting patiently in the secondary market.

    #494 3 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Well AFM95 you'll have to slum it like the rest of us and drop down to Standard Editions.

    That's my worst nightmare.

    I guess I could start driving for Uber on the weekends...

    1 week later
    #516 3 months ago
    Quoted from Hemispheres:

    So here is what I see based off The homework we have done with our accountant.
    The 2 states to stay out of are OK and PA: 10K plus in a year and you're filing taxes... so one game and your done... so those of you living in Oklahoma and Pennsylvania you're screwed. Maybe if you buy one game a year early in the year you'll find a dealer to do it.
    MOST states adopted the ruling of the Supreme court but some altered. REMEMBER ALL OF THIS IS A ROLLING CALENDAR YEAR so at the end of each quarter you go back one year from the END OF THAT QTR.
    100K in sales OR 200 transactions: IN,IA,KY,IL,LA,ME,MD,MI,NE,NV,RI,NJ,NC,ND,SD,UT,VT,WA,DC,WV,WY,WI,CA,CO
    100K plus in sales: SC
    100 or more retail sales shipped to the state or 10 or more retail sales totaling more than 100K shipped to the state during 12 consecutive months: MN
    250K AND 200 transactions AND active solicitation: CT
    250K OR 200 transactions: GA
    250K plus: AL,MS
    500K AND 100 transactions: MA
    500K plus: OH,TN,TX
    NO TAX UNLESS YOU HAVE A PRESENCE, A REP OR AFFILIATE IN THIS STATE: AZ,AK,FL,KS,MO,NM,NY,VA
    NO TAX AT ALL NO MATTER IF PRESENCE OR NOT: AK,DE,MT,NH,OR

    Great information, thank you for sharing.

    Can I ask a question using a scenario below?

    Since I'm in MN, and let's say historically you never hit 100 transactions or 100K+ in sales in a rolling calendar year in my state as a distributor.

    I buy a NIB game from you.

    Would you need to collect a sales tax even if you have never hit 100 trx or 100K + in sales during a rolling calendar year (and you make an educated guess that you won't go over in the next 12 months)? Or would you be collecting it anyway in case you went over the threshold? Maybe that's completely up to a distributor to decide?

    It's a shame the government is essentially penalizing small businesses to invest more money and resources to keep up with the different collection laws in each state. What a headache.

    #535 3 months ago
    Quoted from Hemispheres:

    We would not "need" to no. if we're projected to hit the hundred thousand in four quarters then I would assume Distributors would start collecting. I would think most of us will just stop doing business in those states to avoid the hassle. The one thing I haven't asked is if we charge our regular state sales tax in our sales do we even have to deal with the tax from other states. So hypothetically if we're reaching the 100K threshold in your state if I just charge Illinois sales tax (where we are located) on your sale I don't have to deal with the Minnesota sales tax. That I'm unsure of.
    I'm not overly worried about this except for the couple of States I mentioned above. For the most part most of us won't be hitting these marks there's a couple states that I'm probably close so we'll just have to watch. it is a big pain in the ass. None of these numbers are etched in stone and can ebb and flow and change at anytime. There's also a ton of different dates of when these go into effect or had been in effect. You have no idea the amount of mind-boggling information we have to go through to make sure we're in compliance with this mess. And at these margins? I scratch my head sometimes.

    Thanks for responding and giving everyone a distributor's viewpoint.

    #562 3 months ago
    Quoted from underlord:

    Dream crushed...

    You probably would be a successful distributor locally in the Northeast, just not countrywide.

    #dreams_uncrushed

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