Were 13% sales tax on everything here. It’s kinda hard listening to people bitch about having to finally pay sales taxes. It’s just the way of life for lots of people.

Welcome to the rest of the world.

That’s one way to look at it. I differ in my point of view, not all taxes are useless.

I could think of a hundred things that America could improve in your country with more tax money. Alas, instead of using it for good social programs or schools, or roads ect... it will probably be used for something stupid like military spending or border control, or just used to line the fat pockets of the rich in your failed system. Yes, I believe that any country as rich as the USA, with poverty as high as the USA is a failed system.

Hey I finally got a moderation notice on pinside There’s a first for everything.

This tax may be a pain in the ass, but I don’t have sympathy for the people that now have to deal with it.

Tesla reduced their prices by $2000 to help offset government credits that are reducing, to help keep their product affordable.

I wonder if stern will reduce their price to alleviate some of this added cost.

I keed, I keed

True. There are always people that look to skirt around the laws. Doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

Talk about a failed system. Who decides what section of the population pays more? Divided by zip codes?

I dont know if I can agree with such a broad statement. As an outsider it doesn't always look that way

Where do property taxes factor into these expenses and services? Property tax money should be for your city services like bus transit, not local sales tax.

Your just cluing in now?

Nice ta meet you, throughout my life I’ve fallen into more than one of those categories

Started from the bottom, now we’re here. I’m very fortunate to have a life now that can afford a NIB game. It takes decades of hard work and proper life choices to turn your life around.

Don’t quite think you get it. I have never met anyone that thinks that way.

The top 10 percent have NO IDEA how bad the bottom 45 percent have it. Pay people a good living wage and they will be more then happy to contribute their share of taxes.

Can’t take blood from a stone.

I don’t think I get what your saying here.

I commented that the discrepancy between the elite and poor in America is greater then most of the elite recognize.

Your rebuttal is that the poor in your country are doing better then then the poor in (3rd world nations?). How is that a just comparison. People are starving, but they should just be happy to be there and not want a better life?

Saying your poor are better then other poor won’t win you any nice guy awards.

Most that make over 250k a year don’t understand how bad the struggle is when you make 30k; and 250k a year does not make you rich.

The American dream has been a lie for years, most will never become millionaires, but as long as they keep believing everything will be ok.

I don’t hate America, or Americans. Just sometimes I feel that there could be a better way for all, not just some.

Please don’t begin to believe that just because we have different view points that I think your somewhat less of a person. Disagreements move conversations forward and help change perspective on situations.

My father and I are on total political polar opposites, but I still love him and value his opinions. Even if I dont agree.

To throw salt on wound, here in Ontario there’s not only the 13% sales tax we pay on NIB games, but we also have to deal with fluctuating currency exchange rates.

You plan to buy a game in 2 weeks, the dollar drops by a penny and suddenly your paying hundreds more in unexpected cost. You can plan and save for taxes, but we don’t even know what the price is until we go pay. The price is calculated that day.

There’s a good chance I’d get denied at the border. They’d probably let me through, but I haven’t tested it in the last decade and the world has changed a lot since then.

Ya know, them bad lifestyle choices might comeback to annoy me.

No I haven’t.

At work I daily deal with people going through very difficult times, people at the bottom of society. I regularly see shit that would blow your mind, and that’s just the way of life for some people. I also deal with people that are considerably well off just as often. Daily I will travel from public housing to multi million dollar mansions. The dichotomy amazes me regularly, and most people have no idea how the other side lives.

My experience with the 3rd world is from the media and vicariously through my friends experiences, but I don’t have first hand knowledge of their lives.

But to try and steer this conversation back on track we’re talking about new pinball purchases and how to best avoid paying any new sales taxes, right?

But if someone has been buying local all along and paying their local sales tax all along then nothing would be different.

This will only affect people that have ordered online from out of state to avoid their local taxation. Correct?

Ya this is total bullshit, but like it’s been said, in the auto market it’s been enforced through registration. Private sales have no way of being enforced, so it never happens, although you’re supposed to report it on your taxes. No one ever dose.

Now there will be enforcement for online sales.

So, ya, double taxation is happening on the second hand market and is not right.

I’d be cautious even posting a for sale add on pinside. Even if it’s a private sale, it’s been facilitated through the Internet on a public website. IRS catches a sale you didn’t report and I bet that won’t be a fun process.

I brought this up years ago and nobody wanted to take a hit for taxes paid. So I will fully expect people to ask more on the secondary market. If you pay more up front, you will want to sell for more. Unfortunately nobody cares if you had to pay more up front.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/whats-the-cost-of-unboxing-a-pin#post-2871412

Principals or morals?

I will only buy a NIB as long as I don’t have to pay the taxes for where I live. I don’t want to move to a tax free state. I want to live where I am and not contribute my share to my local government. As long as I don’t have to pay what I should have been paying all along.

If you can’t afford to pay your taxes then it’s not a matter of principle. If you refuse to pay your taxes it’s not a matter of principal. IMHO it’s a matter of entitlement. I’m to rich, smart, or savvy to have to do my part. Taxes are only payed by schleps that can’t find how to avoid them.

If these are your principles, then I think your immoral

Principles are subjective, morals are definable are right and wrong. Avoiding to pay the taxes you rightfully owe is wrong.

Nobody’s defending poor government spending.
Nobody’s defending new taxes.

The new enforcement is what people are mad about. The tax was there all along, they were just more easily able to avoid them before. And now the line in the sand has been drawn, not because of new taxes, because people refuse to pay their share.

If you don’t like the tax in your State, move, don’t be immortal and avoid the right thing to do.

Nobody likes to pay tax, but if nobody actually pays tax then your country won’t exist. It’s kinda how the whole thing works.

Well said.

Again, I disagree. I pay my taxes for every purchase I make, without complaint.

This isn’t a new tax, you just can’t avoid it as easily as you used to.

IMHO refusing to pay taxes is the same as not paying your government. Anyone/anything without an income won’t last. Taxes are the way your government collects money to keep the country going. Without income the government would collapse or be shutdown. Whom runs the country when nobody’s getting paid to do it? The military? They want your money too. How about the state? Nope. They also want your money to stay a float. Municipalities? Same.

You might not like my socialist view, that’s ok you don’t have to like me, or my view, or my country. But the fact is that if everything is tax free then the world wouldn’t work.

America’s #1 export is debt to China. If taxes don’t pay for that what will?

Yet everyone wants to give less and less.

This is a separate issue. All governments are wasteful. Could I do a better job then they are? sure I could, in theory, but realistically running a country isn’t easy. For the most part America is doing well, so how bad is it really?

True dat

Will dealers just avoid selling across country? Buy local/sell local. Or is the profit enough to deal with cross state tax laws? Or sell enough to just skirt the limit, then pass on sales to another dealer?

By having individual dealers setting individual prices stern forced their distributors to complete against each other. Without having a national dealer network themselves stern pushes their bullshit (maintenance and taxes?) onto the middleman. Dealers don’t help each other out now, do they? But you’ll have to ask yourself as a reseller, is it worth it?

Buy anything used from a store like goodwil, double taxes.

It happens all the time.

I come on here and say. You gotta pay taxes for everthing that your supposed to pay taxes for. just because you've used a loophole for years doesn't make it right. Now the loophole is closed and it's time to do what you should have been doing all along.

I get called a stupid Canadian, I know nothing about this. Well, ok. Attack me personally. I'm ok with that. Your opinion of me doesn't matter to me.

Now just to suppose for a min.

Suppose an IRS agent was reading this thread and came on here and said. "Well guys, you really should be paying sales tax for your district." Would they get blasted like i am.

My opinion are mine, and they're just opinions. I haven't needed to personally attack anyone on here to feel better about myself

AFM95

Thanks for the respectful response.

I believe in a shared system, not pay to play, remember not everything is free to everyone in Canada.

But there's no way you will convince me that if you can buy a $5k toy, that you can't afford the sales tax on it. Especially if you live in a area that you should be paying that tax. Regardless of buying it online or at a brick and mortar store.

I believe if your address requires sales tax then you man up and pay it. Dont look for ways to avoid it. If you truly hate sales taxes in your area, move to a less taxed area. Taxes are here for a reason and avoiding them only helps your own pocket. And some people are ok with that, I'm not. Maybe it's my poor morals in wanting to do my part?

After all that I've learned on the American tax system in the last couple days, it's hard to say it's not failing on many levels.

Canada is failing in many areas to. The idea is to work toward something better.

(Maybe to much time with family over the holidays has got me a little more salty then usual. I need to smoke a joint and calm the fuck down)

Maybe this is all just a case of the Dunning Kruger affect. I'm to stupid to realize how stupid I am when talking about something outside my experience. I'll give ya that. Could be.

Yup, (this ain't me) but I wouldn't doubt it. This country is filled with tax avoiders too. I still dont agree with it.

No. Quite the opposite. You live in a community that provides services to your neighborhood. For whatever reason they couldn't make ends meet and imposed a sales tax to offset spending. (I'm not arguing that your community is spending it well) To avoid THAT sales tax people have made purchases online from outside their community. (I disagree with avoiding the tax, not online purchasing) Now the Gov has made it enforceable that your community can collect sales tax that was lost through this loophole (they're trying to fix a broken system, is that a bad thing?)

If everyone always paid the proper taxes for their area already, would the Gov need to close a loophole? Or should the loophole remain and communities suffer lost revenue from the people living there?

Sorry. I love this kind of debate, but I have to work now. Ya know. Pay the tax man and all that.

I think this is the best course of action.

I don’t think this sucks, if you avoid the law and get caught, it’s on you, no one should feel sorry for you.