Mill Creek, WA
Ziegler can sell to anyone, you just buy through them through the web or on the phone once you have the car.
(Topic ID: 215054)
Quoted from pcprogrammer:I don't have Ziegler near me.
Ziegler is a factory backed warranty instead of a dealer specific. My dealer sold me the ziegler warranty... http://www.chryslerfactoryplans.com
Check out ewald chrysler in Oconomowoc for comparison shopping. I found them to be a bit cheaper then milwaukee or madison, but I bought two brand new vehicles at the same time.
I also don't care about resale because we will have the vehicles 10 years or so.
Also, on the warranty pricing, check to see if the deductible is included or not. The higher cost plans are usually zero deductible.
Quoted from DCFAN:Does the Odyssey come with a timing belt or chain. The Sienna has a timing chain. That would be a decider for me to get a car with a chain if all other things are fairly equal, especially if you plan on keeping the car 9 plus years.
Let's just say I know a guy that is the durability engineer on the engine in that odyssey. That engine is great. You should have zero concerns about the durability or maintenance requirements for the v6. Get the Odyssey, a lot of great ideas and this guys blood sweat and tears went in to making that
Quoted from ralphwiggum:I have been a minivan owner for an embarrassing number of years. I flat out love how practical they are. I drove a Dodge Caravan for many years, and it really never had too many issues until it hit about 160k. Went from that to a 2012 Toyota Sienna. The Sienna was far more luxurious, had more room, and even got better gas mileage (about 2 mpg better). After 2 years of ownership, the Sienna started getting electrical Gremlins. I was past the warranty from a mileage perspective, so any diagnostics/costs add up quick when dealing with electrical. Both of the power sliding doors would open and close when they felt like it (never while driving thank god). Most of the time during extreme cold, they wouldn't work at all. The dealership quoted me $5k for computer replacement that would fix the door issue.
I took that van straight to a Dodge Dealership, and traded it in on a brand new Dodge Caravan with almost all the options. For me, it's Dodge or nothing when it comes to minivans. I believe they are still the only ones that hold the patent for full stow and go (front and rear passenger). It doesn't sound like much, but after not having the fronts stow down in the Toyota (had to remove them), I could never go back to another minivan that didn't have full stow and go.
We drove the Honda quite a bit when choosing between the Toyota and the Honda, but from a ride comfort perspective, the Toyota just felt more comfortable to my wife and myself.
Listen to this guy, I have owned a Caravan for 9 years also, if it doesn't have Stow and Go the minivan is useless to me. I can't imagine owning a minivan that did not have this feature. Have fun removing your seats everytime you need to haul something. What a major PITA.
Quoted from Deaconblooze:In case you missed it. Touring L Plus for that price, at least worth checking into.
Holy crap. How can they sell that for $31,400. It's the same vehicle that I was quoted for $37,500 at a Chrysler dealership. It didn't look like that was a Chrysler dealership on that one though, does that make a difference?
Quoted from MikeS:you're going to take a huge hit on resale value on the Pacifica compared to Toyota or Honda. I would look for a 2017 model if you go that route. They are very nice on the inside and have great features. I just don't know how long term reliability is since it's a new model.
I'd also make sure to take a look and test drive a Kia Sedona before making your decision. They really are a good value. You can get a nicely equipped 2017 model with leather and some nice features with low miles (20K) for around $22K certified with a decent warranty.
I haven't bought a van yet but have done some research and will likely buy in the next 6 months.
Kia body metal is paper thin. The smallest impact becomes a big expense. I'd never own a Kia.
Plus, if you buy used you're missing out on all the electric/hybrid incentives, to the tune if about $10k in CA between Federal/State/Local. That alone makes new a better deal than used. Sucks up all the initial depreciation in advance.
Quoted from pcprogrammer:Holy crap. How can they sell that for $31,400. It's the same vehicle that I was quoted for $37,500 at a Chrysler dealership. It didn't look like that was a Chrysler dealership on that one though, does that make a difference?
This is the seller:
https://www.ubersox.net/
Touring-L and Touring Plus in the 27k-31k range.
Quoted from pcprogrammer:Holy crap. How can they sell that for $31,400. It's the same vehicle that I was quoted for $37,500 at a Chrysler dealership. It didn't look like that was a Chrysler dealership on that one though, does that make a difference?
Doesnt make a difference at all. That dealer is part of an autogroup, where they carry a large variety of vehicles. You still get full factory warranty, and you can still get extended warranty too.
The most important thing (after the sale) is finding a local dealer that has an excellent service department. Anyone can sell a new car, but not all service departments are created equally.
We have a 2006 Odyssey. I like it. It's got a timing belt. We replaced it at 105k miles as part of the tuneup regimen Honda recommends. It currently has 150k miles. The only thing to go wrong on it was the stator on the AC compressor. I was able to replace it without having to replace the whole compressor. Kinda nice how Honda engineered it to be repairable (as opposed to being a throwaway part).
That said, I honestly don't think the timing belt should be a sole reason you don't purchase a vehicle, but it's definitely something to consider since it's a guaranteed $600 maintenance write off down the road.
Both will be super reliable, though I think I'd give the nod to the Sienna for 2018, since the Odyssey is a new design, and Honda will probably have some kinks to work out in the design, whereas the Sienna is still running on a third generation, and has been for a long while. They've had several years to work out every issue and bug. It'll probably run until the sun burns out--so make sure you like it! You'll be driving it forever.
Quoted from PinMonk:Kia body metal is paper thin. The smallest impact becomes a big expense. I'd never own a Kia.
Plus, if you buy used you're missing out on all the electric/hybrid incentives, to the tune if about $10k in CA between Federal/State/Local. That alone makes new a better deal than used. Sucks up all the initial depreciation in advance.
That's good to know on the body metal. I know Kia has their own steel factory but I've only really just begun doing research on minivans.
Unfortunately, WI is a red State and actually taxes people more (higher registration fees) for driving an electric vehicle since they don't pay the gas tax 
It's awesome to read everyone's feedback on Odysseys. This...guy I know... sees all the behind the scenes stuff and the debates over the features and specs.
The Honda is going to last you a long time and have great resale value (probably better than even toyota). Some of the tech in there like the intercom system, magic seats, and baby seat camera has me considering one and I'm not even that old
I'm pretty sure I'm down to either the Sienna or Pacifica. I know most people would say Toyota but until today I hadn't looked at the Pacifica and I'm more than impressed. The Siennas design inside the vehicle looks really dated and not inspired, kinda boring looking but I know it will be a solid vehicle.
Quoted from PinballTilt:Let's just say I know a guy that is the durability engineer on the engine in that odyssey. That engine is great. You should have zero concerns about the durability or maintenance requirements for the v6. Get the Odyssey, a lot of great ideas and this guys blood sweat and tears went in to making that
First year models have problems. Some big, some not, and i'm not necessarily saying the engine! I would stay away if it were me. Let them figure out the major issues first.
We did the Pacifica Hybrid & love, love, love it. It feels so much more solid than the Odyssey it replaced even at higher speeds. The stated electric range is 33 miles, however we've always gotten closer to 40. At this point on the Odyssey we already replaced the steering pump. The gas engine rarely kicks on, so 90% of the miles are on the simple electric motor. We did get the $7,500 tax credit & Chrysler through in the home charger.
Quoted from lancestorm:First year models have problems. Some big, some not, and i'm not necessarily saying the engine! I would stay away if it were me. Let them figure out the major issues first.
Historically across all manufactures that's probably true, but the Japanese brands do a very good of catching those things and many of the parts on the vehicles carry over from the previous model (90%+?). They also start cost cutting after the first year, so it's not something to avoid in my opinion.
Enjoyed reading this thread. I own a 2014 sienna with 185k on it. Has been very reliable. No complaints. Had a sienna before this one and was pleased. Yes the sienna does not seem to have all the tech features that may be found in other vehicles but these tech features are not going to get me to work so I can pay for the car. Would love to have the stow and go seats but would rather have a more reliable car. Had a Chrysler town and country before the last sienna and vowed I would never ever buy another American car. Nothing but headaches and a repair file two inches thick. I have also noticed that Toyota’s seemnto suffer far less from rust issues than Chrysler’s do. Don’t know why but just being observant on the highway Toyota’s look better as well as Honda’s for a longer time before their body’s start decomposing
Just my experience
Quoted from pcprogrammer:I'm pretty sure I'm down to either the Sienna or Pacifica. I know most people would say Toyota but until today I hadn't looked at the Pacifica and I'm more than impressed. The Siennas design inside the vehicle looks really dated and not inspired, kinda boring looking but I know it will be a solid vehicle.
Pacifica is a very impressive van. Honda and Toyota will both be playing catch-up since the Pacifica has become pretty popular as a result. If you go the hybrid, the federal (and possibly state and local) renewable energy car rebates and incentives will offset some of the extra depreciation a Chrysler has over a Toyota or Honda.
Lots of great info. I feel no closer to a decision. Seems like I could go in any direction and have problems or maybe none at all. I was pretty sold on the Pacifica but now as I think of the stop and go feature it's bugging me.
I've owned 2 Honda Odysseys. Both Touring. Over 100K miles each.
For the most part they are pretty reliable but....
The service guys at the Honda dealership are absolute a-holes and liars.
The 2015 i had made a weird knocking sound whenever i turned sharp at low speeds.
They claimed to never be able to hear it or acknowledge anything out of the ordinary at all. That started almost immediately after i bought it.
Secondly, i was going through brakes like crazy. It was getting scary trying to slow down going downhill, shaking really badly.
Constantly needing the rotors worked on. Like every other month i'd be in there.
THEY BLAMED ME! SAYING IT WAS MY DRIVING HABITS!!
I finally took it to a mechanic in town and he took one look and said, THE BRAKES ARE TOO SMALL FOR A VEHICLE THAT HEAVY.
He ordered larger brakes. The new brakes WORKED PERFECTLY for years.
Along the same lines...Does anyone have an informed opinion about the Nissan Quest? You certainly don't see many of them. (Maybe that's all one needs to know.) I like its looks and the fact that it's a Japanese car that's actually Made in Japan.
Quoted from pcprogrammer:Does anyone have a vehicle with that "stop and go" tech. Does it get annoying?
I drove a Malibu for a weekend with that tech. The first day it bothered me, after that I didnt really even notice it.
Quoted from usandthem:Along the same lines...Does anyone have an informed opinion about the Nissan Quest? You certainly don't see many of them. (Maybe that's all one needs to know.) I like its looks and the fact that it's a Japanese car that's actually Made in Japan.
I love Nissans... One of the few vehicles that has/had the options for manual transmissions and roll down windows. They are super reliable too. I think the problem with Nissans is that once you start loading them up with options to make them comparable to their competition, they end up being more expensive than their competition.
Also, I believe the Quest has been discontinued.
Quoted from PACMAN:I’ll never own another Nissan.
I worked as a mechanic at a Nissan dealer and they had problems you would never see on Toyotas or Hondas. A lot of which was related to cheap thin wiring and bad connectors. Maybe they are better now, but I see no reason to buy one, when Toyotas have always served me well.
I'm going to drive my 2001 Tacoma with 180,000 miles on it until the wheels fall off. Or my wheels fall off, whichever comes first.
Most Toyotas that come in my shop now with very high miles have no leaks and the owners say they have never had any problems. But there are a few exceptions.
Quoted from pcprogrammer:Does anyone have a vehicle with that "stop and go" tech. Does it get annoying?
Pretty sure our Volt does that. Doesn't bother me at all.
Quoted from o-din:I worked as a mechanic at a Nissan dealer and they had problems you would never see on Toyotas or Hondas. A lot of which was related to cheap thin wiring and bad connectors. Maybe they are better now, but I see no reason to buy one, when Toyotas have always served me well.
I'm going to drive my 2001 Tacoma with 180,000 miles on it until the wheels fall off. Or my wheels fall off, whichever comes first.
Most Toyotas that come in my shop now with very high miles have no leaks and the owners say they have never had any problems. But there are a few exceptions.
The air conditioner isn't working (again) in our 2007 Camry and the water pump and radiator have been replaced. Only 98,000 miles on it.
Quoted from pcprogrammer:Only 98,000 miles on it.
100,000 miles is the beginning of the end for many other car manufacturers. I had an '03 Corolla in the other day with over 300,000 and that little motor was still purring like a kitten
The only vehicle I've owned that had 300,000 miles was a 1992 Pontiac Grand Prix. Engine and trans were running solid as a rock the day I sold it. I bought it for $2,500 and years later sold it for $2,000. Not a bad return.
Quoted from o-din:100,000 miles is the beginning of the end for many other car manufacturers
Is it though? Maybe 20 years ago, but manufacturers can't afford to make mistakes anymore.....
There isnt a single manufacturer today I would be nervous about buying a new car and not getting 100k miles fairly problem free out of.... Only two that would give me some pause would be Subaru (gaskets) and VW (electrical)....
Quoted from ralphwiggum:Is it though? Maybe 20 years ago, but manufacturers can't afford to make mistakes anymore.....
There isnt a single manufacturer today I would be nervous about buying a new car and not getting 100k miles fairly problem free out of.... Only two that would give me some pause would be Subaru (gaskets) and VW (electrical)....
I would have to agree with this. My sister bought a Dodge Grand Caravan. They bought it new in 2015, zero issues at 50K. I've put about $3,000 in repairs into my Toyota Sienna over the past 6 years, nothing serious like the engine or transmission, but a lot of minor repairs nonetheless. There was a service bulletin with the steering that set me back $1,000. The check engine light came on once that set me back about $800. Then a lot of brakes and rotors, an O2 sensor, the rear coil springs and shocks.
Quoted from pcprogrammer:I would have to agree with this. My sister bought a Dodge Grand Caravan. They bought it new in 2015, zero issues at 50K. I've put about $3,000 in repairs into my Toyota Sienna over the past 6 years, nothing serious like the engine or transmission, but a lot of minor repairs nonetheless. There was a service bulletin with the steering that set me back $1,000. The check engine light came on once that set me back about $800. Then a lot of brakes and rotors, an O2 sensor, the rear coil springs and shocks.
It sounds like your experience with Toyota is very similar to mine, and a lot of people I know. Major problems? No, not really... Inexpensive problems? No not really.... I feel like anything over $300 is an above average cost for a low mileage vehicle. I get replacing brakes, tires, etc.... I don't understand spending $800 on a PCV valve (guessing that is what you had replaced) because of $775 of labor to take the top half of the engine off to get to it.
I am sort of surprised you are still considering a Sienna given your recent track history with them.
Edit... the o2 sensor set me back $700... I replaced the PCV myself....
Quoted from o-din:I worked as a mechanic at a Nissan dealer and they had problems you would never see on Toyotas or Hondas. A lot of which was related to cheap thin wiring and bad connectors. Maybe they are better now, but I see no reason to buy one, when Toyotas have always served me well.
I'm going to drive my 2001 Tacoma with 180,000 miles on it until the wheels fall off. Or my wheels fall off, whichever comes first.
Most Toyotas that come in my shop now with very high miles have no leaks and the owners say they have never had any problems. But there are a few exceptions.
Not to mention Toyota's stellar resale value.
You really should look at a Picifica.
I bought a new Pacifica in 2017 when they 1st came out. It was also my 8th mini van and I've got to say... I LOVE IT!!
The adaptive cruise control is incredible, as is everything else in this van. Also have the vented seats and glass roofs front and back. And after more than a year, I still love getting into the thing every day. Such an awesome ride. They nailed it!!
Quoted from waltrr:You really should look at a Picifica.
I bought a new Pacifica in 2017 when they 1st came out. It was also my 8th mini van and I've got to say... I LOVE IT!!
The adaptive cruise control is incredible, as is everything else in this van. Also have the vented seats and glass roofs front and back. And after more than a year, I still love getting into the thing every day. Such an awesome ride. They nailed it!!
How is it for pinhauling? Can it do two pins (in a "T" formation) and have room for a dolly on the side of the pin in back?
Quoted from PinMonk:How is it for pinhauling? Can it do two pins (in a "T" formation) and have room for a dolly on the side of the pin in back?
Looking at the dimensions, they are almost identical to the Caravan... I have done 3 Dmds in my Caravan. Two pins and a Dolly should be no problem.
Quoted from ralphwiggum:It sounds like your experience with Toyota is very similar to mine, and a lot of people I know. Major problems? No, not really... Inexpensive problems? No not really.... I feel like anything over $300 is an above average cost for a low mileage vehicle. I get replacing brakes, tires, etc.... I don't understand spending $800 on a PCV valve (guessing that is what you had replaced) because of $775 of labor to take the top half of the engine off to get to it.
I am sort of surprised you are still considering a Sienna given your recent track history with them.
Edit... the o2 sensor set me back $700... I replaced the PCV myself....
Same thing with my Toyota, had 155k miles but lots of little issues over 7 years. Always ran, but that was about it. It was my first (and only) Toyota. Like I get that it's dependable, but if I look back at my history of cars that got to 150k miles, it had more problems for me than:
87 ford pickup
89 ford probe
2001 eclipse
1996 grand prix
2006 grand prix
The only one it beat was my 93 ford probe that had been in an accident that wasn't disclosed when I bought it. And it had less features than most of those cars for it's time, so it should have been more reliable but it really wasn't. Ironically the resale value was higher on it than all of those other cars. So count me as one who doesn't totally get it, maybe the engine will run to 300k miles, but not sure if that really matters if you're bored to death driving it over all those miles.
My 2017 Pacifica through 36k miles has had less problems than my 09 Sienna for what it's worth.
You guys are making this tough! I was leaning pretty heavily towards a 2018 Sienna, but now I'm not sure again. I'm not getting a Honda Odessey. It'll either be a Pacifica or a Sienna.
Tough call here. It comes down to a few things. The stop and go feature really is bothering me, not sure if I will be able to handle that long term. I know there is a button to turn it off but how many times will me or my wife forget to press the button when we get in... You have to push the button again everytime you get in your vehicle and start it, there is no memory so it can be permanently disabled.
2nd is price, I'll be at least a few thousand more for the Sienna and if I get the model with the blue ray player I'll pay closer to 5k more for the van, it's that big of a price jump.
3rd, I am really nervous about the reliability of the Pacifica. I am not nervous about the Sienna, I know some smaller stuff will come up, but the engine and transmission will most likely be solid.
I'd also say the 2018 Sienna was very boring inside and outside, it's just a very plain looking van. But when I test drove a new one, it was very fun to drive. My 2010 Sienna is 246 HP and the 2018 Sienna is 296 HP. What a difference! There is so much power, the van just zips along.
Quoted from pcprogrammer:What a difference! There is so much power, the van just zips along.
Why didnt you say that from the beginning? Hold out for the 707hp Hellcat Pacifica.... 
https://www.topspeed.com/cars/chrysler/2017-chrysler-pacifica-hellcat-ar172693.html
Quoted from ralphwiggum:Why didnt you say that from the beginning? Hold out for the 707hp Hellcat Pacifica....
https://www.topspeed.com/cars/chrysler/2017-chrysler-pacifica-hellcat-ar172693.html
0 to 60 in 3.6 seconds in a minivan LOL
Quoted from pcprogrammer:0 to 60 in 3.6 seconds in a minivan LOL
I'm not gonna lie... If that thing came out and was 50k, Im all in... lol
That stop start thing is one of the dumbest dumbass inventions of all time. I've been looking at a new higlander and it has it also. However, I can live with the button to turn it off, even if you have to hit it each time you get in. Now if it were not able to be turned off at all, that would be a potential dealbreaker for me.
FWIW I have 3 Toyotas all bought new, 2004 Camry 130,000 miles 2008 Solara 50,000 miles 2012 Higlander 70,000 miles. The only non maintenance repair for all 3 was a seal that had to be replaced on the Solara steering. Other than that all trouble free.
Before that I had 2 Chevrolets. I can't even begin to describe my hatred for those POS.
Is that stop start in all models, or just the hybrid? I have a Malibu with it. I think its dumb, but also not something I notice anymore.
Quoted from Deaconblooze:Is that stop start in all models, or just the hybrid? I have a Malibu with it. I think its dumb, but also not something I notice anymore.
Its not just in hybrids. I was reading that it is in 100% of the ford f150s now.
What is the stop/start thing? I have a 2017 touring plus and I'm not familiar with that feature. Is that on the limited or something?
Quoted from taylor34:What is the stop/start thing? I have a 2017 touring plus and I'm not familiar with that feature. Is that on the limited or something?
It started at the end of 2017. It is standard on all Pacificas now. It improves city mpg by about 1mpg. It can be disabled with a button, but resets every time car is restarted.
I have a 2008 Odyssey with 142,000 or so miles on it. It’s been a great vehicle. Other than maintenance items the only failure I had was a battery that failed on the highway three states from home. The alternator got so hot it was smoking by the time I got off the freeway. Once i put a new battery in the alternator whined like hell. Bearings fried. So not too bad. One alternator in all that time. Oil consumption is approximately a quart every 3k miles. My sister has a 2018 Sienna Limited Premium. It’s a beautiful van. I will probably go with that next time only because the Toyota dealer here is so great to deal with while the Honda dealer is painful in every regard. I don’t think you could go wrong with either one. It would be like buying an EM new back in the day. Gottlieb, Bally, Williams. All great machines just the execution is a bit different from brand to brand.
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
