Quoted from o-din:Not me. I'll take any old theme they throw at me as long as it helps keep pinball alive. My wants are secondary to the overall good of the pinball hobby and community.
Quoted from o-din:Not me. I'll take any old theme they throw at me as long as it helps keep pinball alive. My wants are secondary to the overall good of the pinball hobby and community.
Quoted from Law:People say this about the build but I do not see the quality. Most of the time when I encounter a jjp game in the wild it is broken.
Maybe I've just had a string of bad encounters and I'm sure people work out the kinks at home, but they've been broken or had big chunks of the art chipped off more often than not on route.
Well I can't really speak to the overall quality.....but they are Big and HEAVY.
Quoted from Astropin:Well I can't really speak to the overall quality.....but they are Big and HEAVY.
Just like a K car!
Quoted from DrJoe:...Weird how pinball enthusiasts want to see Stern fail.
Late to this party, but I'd say it takes a pretty amazingly shitty PR dept. on Stern's part to achieve such a thing.
They should be riding a wave of pure fanbois love but instead have somehow managed to mess it all up with short-sighted decisions, poor judgement (banning Pinball News from the Stern party?), and arrogance ($15K Batman game that you have to beg to purchase? - dance monkey dance).
The worst thing they have done though, IMHO, is not communicated with their customers effectively. Everytime I hear an interview with George Gomez I'm left wondering why they don't have him posting here? He might find that pinsiders will by and large treat him with the same consideration he gives them.
Anyway, nobody wants Stern to fail, what they really want is more healthy competition in the industry so that no one company can take their customers for granted.
Quoted from Fytr:They should be riding a wave of pure fanbois love but instead have somehow managed to mess it all up with short-sighted decisions, poor judgement (banning Pinball News from the Stern party?), and arrogance ($15K Batman game that you have to beg to purchase? - dance monkey dance).
They could still do everything right and owners of various machines would still go out of their way to let everybody know the games they don't own are no good.
I'd hate to see any pin manufacturer go under.
What would happen to used game prices if there were no more new games being sold?
Quoted from JonH123:I'd hate to see any pin manufacturer go under.
What would happen to used game prices if there were no more new games being sold?
Good question. Honestly I feel a lot of latecomers would just leave and move on to jet skis or something.
This thread needs more 20 something years old fucking genuises screenshotting their bff texts.
Please, tell me more.
The truth is if real competition comes Stern's way they'll just adjust and drop their prices. We all know the increase in prices and cost cutting has been gravey for them.
Should be an interesting May. Dialed In, AFMR, and Steve Ritchie's pin.
What a great year for pinball.
LTG : )
Quoted from Law:People say this about the build but I do not see the quality. Most of the time when I encounter a jjp game in the wild it is broken.
Maybe I've just had a string of bad encounters and I'm sure people work out the kinks at home, but they've been broken or had big chunks of the art chipped off more often than not on route.
I think you are experiencing the wonders of JJP doing a great job marketing!
I have found lots of new to operating types that have JJP games they bought. That combined with thus far all JJP games do VERY well on route means lots of play combined with higher than average poor technician maintainence = you see down JJP games.
There are a lot of them out their is one off operator locations.
Quoted from bowz:Add the 2 minutes it took you to type your response and now you're up to 4 wasted minutes...
Reading it was a waste of time. My post made a point. Your point was????
Even if all other manufacturers became solid players in the field. It would still take years before they could realistically start pumping out enough games to put the death blow on Stern. Stern might lose some highend home collector dollars but they are the only ones producing "operator" priced games.
Personally I think your statement couldn't be more off. The title should read:
"2017. The best year of Stern."
They have GB reaching there highest sales, Star Wars (More then likely will be their top selling game) in the works and possibly Elvira 3 this year. Even with all their quality issues it still comes down to one fact. Most operators are not going to care if they get some clear chipping on the playfield. As long as they are making money they will keep buying.
This is another "1+1=3" discussion.
No grounding in facts, sales, or understanding the industry.
Contrary to new members of the pinball community, CGC does not have a complete 100% monopoly on pinball cabinets or playfields. Stern already outsourced to other options quite a while back.
This is like saying BLY/WMS only sourced playfields and cabinets one company from 1960-1999, which they did not either dependent on market condition periods and manufacturing requirements. Some games had as many as four different sources for playfields alone. Gottlieb used diferent sources as well.
Also, three companies out of seven are at the front of the line for closure and end in any sense. Stern is the only company with full financial stability anyway, which people constantly overlook. So good luck with that idea, as Stern continues to ride the fanboy tidal wave with GB and eventually SW.
The sense of intertwined support between parts suppliers and manufacturers is more important than some understand. It is symbiotic in a ridiculously niched industry such as pinball. CGC does not give Stern the middle finger, jack up rates, or say "we no longer need your business". There is no major market shift going to happen now, in six months, or two years, especially since preorders just started.
People need to get their hands off the CGC Staples "That was Easy" button.
CGC have not built a complete game since 2002, and it was a "less than successful" outcome into their first try into the home market.
Vacation America went on closeout, and they sold less than 800 units. This was not even considered in this conversation. Of course, AFMr new buyers do not know that, but might wise to discover and read, but I am sure they will not, and make the same mistakes as before in preorders. Simple amounts of education can pay huge dividends, if enthusiasts listen to "old persons". Most say they know better, or "it won't happen to them", but in some cases it already has repeatedly, and they are hurting the market, not just themselves.
I will move along from what people already know regarding my position on this matter.
2017 will be known in pinball as the period of first loss of boutique manufacturers.
Total number is unknown.
Other than that pinball will continue in its current direction, higher prices, until market stall.
Stern is not threatened, at least not in the next few years.
Everyone else is still trying to either catch up, or getting started.
That is the reality.
Not particularly optimal time for buyers (other than the incredible volume of choice) at the present time as it is a seller market, but for some of really does not matter price wise.
EM and SS prices for used games as a whole (not just individual specific titles) is the highest it has been (in price jump equivalency) since the early 2000s.
When popular EMs start selling for the same costs as low end 90s SS games, this is not an unnoticed fluke phenomenon.
The market pendulum swing is not a wild one, but gradual, if a person plays attention, with its defining moments.
CGC entering the market is not one of those moments.
AP is in the equivalent situation right now, presently.
So is P3.
However, once CGC starts offering more than one title every 2 years (even if they are copied designs), I will perk up my interest.
Until that time, there is no "Stern threat", they are not going to impress any older collectors using refake titles of games that were made over 20 years ago.
Good luck with the other types of speculation.
Quoted from LTG:Should be an interesting May. Dialed In, AFMR, and Steve Ritchie's pin.
What a great year for pinball.
LTG : )
Stern are releasing another game in May???! SW????!
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Stern are releasing another game in May???! SW????!
May the 4th be with you.
Quoted from Gryszzz:This thread needs more 20 something years old fucking genuises screenshotting their bff texts.
Please, tell me more.
I'm 32. Don't confuse your opinion for intelligence.
Quoted from Jeremy8419:I'm 32. Don't confuse your opinion for intelligence.
30 is the new 20 in terms of intelligence and maturity.
Quoted from dmbjunky:30 is the new 20 in terms of intelligence and maturity.
Think you mean knowledge, not intelligence.
Quoted from Jeremy8419:Think you mean knowledge, not intelligence.
Many definitions for intelligence but I like "the ability to perceive information and retain it as knowledge to be applied to actions."
Intelligence can be raised and lowered through experience and repetition.
Quoted from Hazoff:I did some recording with 20 somethings the other day and these guys did nothing but look at their phones basically the whole time, no personality, no real thought like zombies, if this is the future then we are in a sad state.
It's not only 20 somethings that do this. When I go out to dinner with my parents that's the first thing they do.
Quoted from dmbjunky:It's not only 20 somethings that do this. When I go out to dinner with my parents that's the first thing they do.
Well then its worse than I thought.
Quoted from dmbjunky:Many definitions for intelligence but I like "the ability to perceive information and retain it as knowledge to be applied to actions."
Intelligence can be raised and lowered through experience and repetition.It's not only 20 somethings that do this. When I go out to dinner with my parents that's the first thing they do.
Then my initial statement of "don't mistake your opinion for intelligence" still applies.
Quoted from Hazoff:I did some recording with 20 somethings the other day and these guys did nothing but look at their phones basically the whole time, no personality, no real thought like zombies, if this is the future then we are in a sad state.
Happens every generation.
Black night I agree with most of your assessment. The only thing I might disagree about is the position of the buyer now. So freaking strong and only seems to be starting. I am the buyer now wee hoo. So many choices.
Can't wait till we start texting, sweetpea. I'm gonna screenshot them all to put them in my special memories book. They may have some hearts drawn on them.
Quoted from Azmodeus:Black night I agree with most of your assessment. The only thing I might disagree about is the position of the buyer now. So freaking strong and only seems to be starting. I am the buyer now wee hoo. So many choices.
This is definitely a seller's market. Prices are at all-time highs, and still rising. As soon as we start seeing sales slump, and games being heavily discounted, that's when the pendulum has shifted toward a buyer's market.
But yes, the amount of choices available now is pretty remarkable.
Quoted from Gryszzz:Can't wait till we start texting, sweetpea. I'm gonna screenshot them all to put them in my special memories book. They may have some hearts drawn on them.
You're weird.
Quoted from dmbjunky:30 is the new 20 in terms of intelligence and maturity.
Just spit coffee... thanks.
Quoted from Gryszzz:Just don't forget your dental insurance card. Def gonna need that.
Your gonna buy him ice cream, a pedicure and then threaten to knock his teeth out? Creep online much? Where is the catch a predator guy's when u need them? Jeremy, start yelling STRANGER DANGER and run
Quoted from Dee-Bow:Your gonna buy him ice cream, a pedicure and then threaten to knock his teeth out? Creep online much? Where is the catch a predator guy's when u need them? Jeremy, start yelling STRANGER DANGER and run
No need. He's just looking for friends. Not someone I'd ever get along with, though.
Quoted from Jeremy8419:No need. He's just looking for friends. Not someone I'd ever get along with, though.
I think you're being awfully judgmental.
You don't even know what kind of ice cream he's offering!
This is getting weird.
Can we get back to prognostications about how the worlds most successful pinball company by far - which puts out multiple titles a year and dominates the market by a crushingly devastating percentage - is about to be overrun by a bunch of underfunded niche botique manufactures who are lucky to launch a new title once per presidential administration?
Cause I thought that discussion was pretty enlightening and prescient!
You can buy almost 2 new or used Stern Pro for the price of a cheap remake of an old game that everybody knows and overrated (MMr, overrated is my opinion). So for me no, Stern is not near the end for me. And nobody knows the price of the AFM remake right? I don't think it will be cheap...
Quoted from Russell:As soon as we start seeing sales slump, and games being heavily discounted, that's when the pendulum has shifted toward a buyer's market
We won't see that again. The days of blowing out games at bargain prices are over. Back when they made more at a time, like RBION they had to blow them out at 1800 bucks. But now Stern doesn't build unsold games. Even the turd games don't get blown out anymore. Just try to get a bargain on a NIB WWE.
Build on demand prevents all the extra games sitting around, and Stern can do tiny runs now when needed. It is a very different world.
Quoted from Shadrac:And nobody knows the price of the AFM remake right? I don't think it will be cheap...
You're kidding right? They announced the pricing like a week ago. I'm not even going to repeat it it's been posted about so much. (Hint.....way cheaper than MMr.....very good pricing but not outstanding).
Quoted from DaveH:We won't see that again. The days of blowing out games at bargain prices are over. Back when they made more at a time, like RBION they had to blow them out at 1800 bucks. But now Stern doesn't build unsold games. Even the turd games don't get blown out anymore. Just try to get a bargain on a NIB WWE.
Build on demand prevents all the extra games sitting around, and Stern can do tiny runs now when needed. It is a very different world.
Never say never. Although I would agree it won't be anytime soon.
Yep Stern is in trouble, JJP and Heighway one pin every 3 years, Spooky, bare bones garage style pinball at a premium price, DP, Zidware and Skit B great companies with solid reviews and lots of pins out there, oh and the company remaking games from the 90's, this is the beginning of the end for Stern.
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