Any sneaky lightning flippers this year? Hopefully CV has a somewhat more reasonable tilt or more secure footing..the combination was deadly and frustrating! =)

IJ4...um...hope there's some kind of stealth code update that makes the game about more than just pounding the MAP captive ball over and over again? I actually like the game but as a competition game..yeaaaaaaaaah.

At least I've played and understand most of these. Embryon's the only one I've never played or seen played to take a competent stab at..

Work upper flpper drop targets, roll overs, but don't forget the vag.

Got my backglasses mixed up. Thank god. It's funny, I didn't even know there was lightning flippers on that LOTR last year until someone told me....I just thought they were super strong! I tore that thing up. It's almost more of a psych-out knowing they're there than just PLAYING on them.

Multiball all day, eh? I'm not completely familiar with Williams Indy... I'll have to figure that out and see if I can get some practice somewhere locally, heh. The few times I've played one, I felt like I did well with it, but nothing ever works that way in a tourney..

CV, as tilty as it was, actually forced me to look for a different strategy and made me a MASSIVELY better player for it, honestly. I definitely have more weapons when it comes to CV than I did in the past. We had a local tournament right after Texas Pinball Festival where I managed to get all the way through it in one round using some of what I learned down there about shot angles on that game.. I used to really despise CV overall... my opinion has been shifting for a while.

....we are still talking about pinball, right?

Where do you think embryos come from!

image-19 (resized).jpg

How much is it to register for this event? I didn't see much info other than the $5 that goes towards PAPA. Is it a one time buy in, or can you pay multiple times for more qualifying tickets?

I am interested in this question as well. I visited the Bat City Open 2017 Facebook page, but didn't see any registration info or schedule posted. Thanks.

Edit: I found registration info and schedule here: http://buffalobilliardsaustin.com/bat-city-open/

Well, I got my day off.....anyone want to split a room Fri/Sat? I'm probably not going otherwise.

My cheapass is looking to split a room as well. However, I'm not a good roommate to light sleepers as I am a snorer. If that's not an issue, hit me up.

I have sleep apnea. I'm pretty sure I can sleep through a hurricane.

Do we have any info on the classics tournament? I.E. will it also be the top 16 for finals and also with a bank of 10 games?

Also, will their be B brackets like last year and what would those IFPA cut offs be (assuming 500 as was last year).

If there's a cutoff that low than most people that would've qualified for B won't be able to play in B finals...talk about horsesh... can tell you I'll be spending a LOT *less* money trying to qualify if I can't make B, because no doubt there's going to be at least 12-24 'ringers' almost guaranteed to qualify for A, and I ain't one of them.

Limitations make sense at huge tournaments where there are 100+ people and WAY WAY WAY too many candidates to fill the field. It makes absolutely *zero* sense at an event that only pulled enough players (ya ya I know expecting more this year!) to field a B division at *all* because a few of us made a last minute scramble to get our wives and friends to play 1 game in qualifying lol..

The cutoff I mentioned was that if you were higher than 500 you wouldn't be able to play in B's (like TPF). I didn't write that well. I could also be wrong that their was one last year. For some reason I thought their was but I may be confusing tournaments.

Yes, they need to advise on this as that last part you mentioned I don't want to happen again. It (and my inability to win my first round) screwed me and left a sour taste in my mouth. I was qualified 14th and spent a fair chunk of money extra trying to improve my standings knowing their was less than 60 players and I didn't want to get bumped. I was (and am still) pretty agitated that occurred and it forced a round to make top 16. Wouldn't have been a big issue but I spent the extra money as top 16 was guaranteed payout and I basically wasted money trying to stay qualified on top of losing a guaranteed payout.

Speaking of payout - When will those figures be disclosed?

With the number of games present it would be nice if they would do A, B and even potentially C divisions. I don't really care if I win a trophy or get a payout (if known in advance). It's just nice to get to play in the brackets. It's also good for pinball to allow people to get experience in that aspect of tournaments. I think it would drive more participation too.

I honestly can't remember either. I'm not even planning on playing in Classics more likely than not because I know far less about those games, and with stuff like Atlantis (I'm so sick of this game in tournaments man.. like why the bloody hell is Altantis in EVERYTHING I go to? I've played Atlantis in TPF, multiple local tournaments at THREE DIFFERENT PEOPLE'S HOUSES, Oklahoma City for CJ's circuit event [I played against Trent FFS on Atlantis...], and now Bat City.. it's getting tiring) and North Star (A game I think is particularly difficult), and Harlem Globetrotters (Which I've NEVER played)....seems like I'd just be wasting my money.

Right now I'm 372nd IFPA. I think given the fact that I've never even played in a 'main' A Division at any MAJOR tournament (TPF (EM-A one year, one bank of modern A another year. Never the main tournament. ), OKC, Bat City, and tanked 1st round at Nationals) clearly it's a stretch to claim that I'm consistent enough to be restricted to an A division at these level of tournaments. It's frustrating as hell, because I know on a fluke or a good run I *can* win, but restrictions basically make the assumption that I would *always* win a B-div, which is clearly not the case either. Instead my tournament fate is frequently being dictated not by my actual skill, but by an arbitrary number that is still inflated by pre-points scale changes and the sheer number of events I attend. Ultimately though, it's not my decision and I get no say, so whatever happens happens. I will be VERY interested to look at the results from Bat City and see who all would be restricted out...

2016 BCO
"A" Top 16 4 players OVER 500....one of which is Kerri Wing, one of the best female players, period, and now ranked 461.

"B" 16-32 Myself, Jon Drew, Gene X Hwang, Chad Lower were all in this group and would've been disqualified on IFPA ranking. I'm reconstituting from available facts that there HAD to have been a ranking restriction. I was ranked 19th overall, I played Bob Matthews for the final slot in A division, we had tied for qualifying. Seeing as how I SHOULD have been playing as top seed of a B division failing that tiebreaker, and I played in no finals, I can only assume there was a restriction. Let me illustrate why I find this whole concept of B restrictions at high level tournaments absolutely ludicrous...

One of our local league guys, Kevin Rodriguez, has been a thorn in my side (competitively speaking) ever since he showed up. The guy is consistent, usually does well under pressure, and knows rules and scoring. He frequently beats me at league. He put up the top qualifying score on KISS last year when the deeper code was fresh out from Stern, and I got close but could not catch him. Last year, he was ranked 1534. This year, he's ranked 615th. So he *still* will not be restricted even though I consider him absolutely on par with myself. Blaise? That guy had NO IFPA ranking before BCO last year. He tied for 11th overall! Is he going to be restricted to A only, or will a guy that made an A Div finals at a circuit event be allowed to play B if he has a bad day, even though he's done something I've *never* done in 6 years as his *only ranked event*?

I'm just venting a bit, because I expect there will once again be a restriction, and I'll PROBABLY get screwed out of playing in a finals because of it. But hey, you're not restricted, I don't think... unless some results process through in the next week and bump you up....so you're in the clear?

I'm to blame for the rise of Gottlieb Atlantis at these events. Ever since I brought Atlantis to 2013 TPF Tournament, its popularity has soared in our area. It's a top 5 Wedgehead and people enjoy playing it, tournament players and non-tournament players alike. So when tournament organizers ask me for a solid playing, 3 inch flipper EM machine, I always volunteer Atlantis and they always accept.

Marcus

Stop volunteering it? Though I guess if I have to choose between that and Capersville... PLEASE DON'T STOP VOLUNTEERING ATLANTIS.

Where are ya'll seeing Atlantis? Is their another list floating around that isn't here or on their official website?

I go either way on restrictions. Generally speaking those higher ranked players should be better players. Problem with IFPA though is all the fluff points being handed out for these weekly tournaments and leagues. Just look at the Texas IFPA ranking right now and tell me the system isn't being played.... They need to fix that so that real tournaments (like TPF, Houston, Bat City) give a lot more points than what someone can get for 1 month of playing with their friends tournaments (these weekly 10-15 players) gigs if they want to rely on IFPA. I actually think they should look at taking averages for rankings. Take someones top 10 events for the year and average their score and that is their IFPA score for the year. Current state it mixes up the, "I play all the time" players with the "I'm good and consistent" players.

Shoot, I got twice the points for a 5th place finish in our monthly league than I did for finishing 5th at state. That's just insane to me...

If you want proof (not to pick on anyone) but look at Garret and then someone like Fred. Garret won TPF and placed second at Cactus Jacks (yes I know that wasn't Texas, just proving skill) and he has about 60% of the points Fred has whom only qualified 45th at TPF. He has 26 events of which most are these weekly points grab things. The system is more than screwed up when someone could theoretically win TPF and Bat City and still be beat out in state qualifying by people that aren't even qualifying for the real tournaments but play 50 events in a year. Again, no disrespect to Fred (he's a real nice guy) but using a real example helps prove the point.

Yeah and therein lies the problem. They force us to nickel-and-dime to make state, but at the same time it inflates ratings substantially. I'm hoping that by the end of this year I'll not have to deal with this crap any longer. I have 9 events set to fall off this year. And most of them are big points. If you take off those 9 results, and replace them with my top INACTIVE results, I end up in 677th place....so it seems likely that had they not just left everything in place when they did the big base value changes, I would ALREADY be below 500th. It's ridiculous that I barely even played in 2016 at all, yet am still 372nd because of results from 3 years ago under a vastly different payout scale..

Right, which was my point. She will be....I will be...the difference is that I have never played in an A finals in a major tournament, much less WON one. It's goofy, and hilarious. I have to play on par with one of the best women in the world (And likely several top 100 men!) just to qualify. *scratch head* I got a chance to play with Kerri when she was in Dallas, was a lot of fun and we were absolutely toe to toe on Met and TWD. Next year, I guarantee you I won't be anywhere near top 500 because I have a LUDICROUS amount of points that will exit the system this year. 2014 was crazy for me, I won like 5 tournaments in the last two months of the year @ 15 points a pop...

I just don't agree with the whole concept of shutting people out based on an arbitrary number that for the last three years is *completely worthless* because it doesn't reflect current skill or level of play because changes weren't retroactive. I said it at the time, and I'm sticking with it... the ranking system is jacked until EVERYTHING pre-change falls off. I can tell you that I won't be spending nearly as much at BCO as I did last year specifically because of the restriction. Last year I wasn't aware that if we pushed for those extra players, then I still wouldn't have been able to play...I know better this year, so there's no reason for me to keep wasting my money if I can't get decent scores early on. It's absolutely idiotic for me to be funding a prize pool for a B and potentially C division that I'm not even allowed to participate in. /shrug It's like me telling a NFL quarterback "Hey, you're too good at running, so everything you do has to be behind the 50 yard line."

It's my personal opinion that competition breeds improvement. I wouldn't be any good at all if I had just spent the last 6 years playing Shuttle in my living room. It's the desire to be better than the other guy, to kick their ass, that drives skill development. Some people don't like the pressure....great...competitive things aren't for them...so I don't understand the whole concept of catering to people that don't put in the time and effort to develop to a competitive point in a "professional" level tournament like circuit events, or TPF, or CAX.... I think when you reach the scale of things like PAPA XX or Pinburgh, sure, you have different divisons because people spend a bloody lot of money to get to those things and participate. And I know people are traveling to BCO, but it's just not the same to me. There won't be 200+ people trying to qualify (err..I hope...otherwise it's gonna get REAL crowded.)

IMO, individual restrictions based on past performance in specific tournaments is a much better option. You finished top 3 in B last year? Time to step up. You were top 3 A several years ago but haven't had any major tourney finals since? Okay, you can probably play in B, but not in C. You have no ranking at all but qualified for A finals and placed in the middle last year? Pretty sure you're capable of staying in A. Common sense things like that. Just my opinion, and I don't have any bitterness towards any of the circuit events over restrictions. TPF, BCO, and CJ have been my favorite tournaments...much more fun than Nationals, let me tell you! I ALWAYS *try* to get the best seed I can, because it matters to me, and I want to be playing against the Trents, the Sharpes, and the Elwins. I'd love to obliterate them at some point. It would just be awesome if having ONE BAD SCORE out of the whole of qualifying didn't mean I was completely f'ed out of playing in finals at all. =\

Anyways..I'll get off the soapbox and go back to watching gameplay videos now.. I'm looking forward to the event, whatever I can do with it.

Frax - I do agree with you and I also feel IFPA needs some major work in order for pinball to get the respect it deserves. With that said, didn't you win or at least place in the top 4 at TPF a couple years ago? I wouldn't cut yourself short. Some may argue it wasn't a "major" tournament when you did (seems like 3 years ago now) but their were some top players there. You and I are pretty alike. We are real good when we are on our game. It's consistency that kicks our butts.

Thanks Buffalow for the info. That's good to hear their will at least be a B group.

I did specify "main" tournaments... yes, I've placed in A division on EM's (2nd place) and on Modern (2nd place....sigh..) on one BANK. Never the main tournament. Classics and EMs always seem to pork my aggregate total.

I know I CAN do well occasionally versus super high level players...at times I've beaten Bob Matthews, Adam McKinney, and Colin. I just can't ever seem to find the groove to QUALIFY in these elite tourneys though. I'm sure I'll be fine once I get *in*...lol...that's usually about how it works! I'm sure once I'm not required to make A division...that's probably when it will happen.

*edit* Just checked myself... 16th is the highest I've ever finished in main tourney at TPF.

Interesting reading this discussion on WPPR restrictions. I've been on both sides of that fence numerous times. I do agree that until all the old data shakes out (from where all tournaments had a base value of 25) the rankings will be a little skewed. However, I looked you up Frax on IFPA. Your highest ranking ever was 87th, last year 202, current rank 372. Your best finish is 1st(18 times). Do you really think you should be allowed to play in a B division at a PAPA circuit event? I saw you finished in front of Preston Moncla, Bob Mathews, Phil Grimaldi, Steve Marsh, Garrett Hays, and Robert Byers in the Texas State Championship in 2016. Would it make sense to allow you to play in a B division that is essentially just a way to allow the less experienced/less skilled players to get a feel for making the playoffs in a major competition?

Sorry for the thread derail. I don't want to take anything away from BCO. You guys were actually on my short list of events to travel to this year and for different reasons(mostly timing) I decided to go to other events. I wish you guys all the best and Frax, I hope you qualify and kick some butt!

I didn't play against Phil, Steve, Preston, or Robert at all in that tournament, which I'm sure you probably aren't aware of. They were on the other side of the brackets...I played against Garret, Jon Drew, Bob, then Colin in the finals...and I still lost after having Colin down 3-0.

Do I believe I should be allowed to play in a B div at what is generally considered the top tier of tournaments until I demonstrate that I'm either capable of winning one (which has yet to happen in SIX YEARS...) or have at least finished top 3 in a B-div ONCE? Yes, absolutely. You're basically advocating for me to be out of a b div because I've occasionally had success against higher ranked people, or because I knowingly manipulated the system when the iron was hot to cash in on 25 base point tournaments? I ran events, leagues, and admin'ed other people's tournaments when necessary to get into the top 100. Under the current point system, I never would have been able to pull that off, and it's very questionable whether I ever should've been able to rise that high in the system given I was only going to events in Dallas and Austin. I'd been told for years that travel was a requirement to be highly ranked..I wanted to prove that wrong with the rules that were available at the time, and I made it happen. I *never* intended to stay in the top 100.

(I'm going to speak in a general sense here, so this obviously doesn't apply to anyone that doesn't have prizes for B finals...)

You want to restrict people from divisons of play based on things other than their ACTUAL performance history, and use an arbitrary number that's been jacked with so many times in 4 years it isn't even accurate anymore? Fine....take away their prizes. If I qualify 17th again, then if I'm not allowed to win cash after spending cash, then as far as I'm concerned...nobody beneath my placing should be winning cash either? That's crap, and everyone knows it. I want to say I spent about 300 bucks last year on BCO...that's absurd to spend THAT MUCH MONEY....and walk away with 2.whatever points and nothing else. If it was just about getting experience, the money wouldn't matter....and just as you can't use how I ranked at something like SCS, where I don't even play against half of the participants, nor should people be judged as a number when their actual win history (which you're clearly not looking at where those wins came from....one of my 18 wins was a THREE PERSON TOURNAMENT lol) when those wins are coming from the same group of players...time...after time....after time. In *every* high level tournament, I've cracked under the pressure. /shrug So I win a B-div once and then I'm A restricted...if that's how it panned out...what's the issue? If it didn't pan out that way...clearly I didn't belong in A.

18 1st places in 6 years is...not exactly great, IMO

Phil Grimaldi 139 events 31 1st Nov 13, 2012 first tourmament
Preston Moncla 68 events 15 1st Nov 2011 first tournament
Robert Byers..110 events 18 1st...goes back to 2005 but look at the records....everything until 2011 was TPF and HAAG.
Garret Hayes 122 events 15 1st August 2012 first tournament.
Steve Marsh 100 events 3 1st...
Bob Matthews 426 events! 36 1st...... but look who he's normally playing against. The very top of the top.
And me...

Josh Tidmore 92 events 18 1st.

Just by kill ratios here..

Colin Macalpine 3.547 events per win
Phil Grimaldi 4.483 events per win
Preston Moncla 4.533 events per win
Josh Tidmore 5.1 events per win
Robert Byers 6.111 events per win
Garret Hays 8.133 events per win
Bob Matthews 11.83 events per win
Steve Marsh 33.33 events per win

Garret won TPF main tournament this year, and kept me from taking 1st on my bank of moderns a few years ago. Preston and Colin have won state champs, which I have not. Robert and Garrett have both had 2nd place finishes at Cactus Jack's. Robert finished 2nd place at BCO last year.. I was 17th........so....again, I say...what do you trust more...actual results, or the numbers? My wins against these people, as thrilling for me as they have been, are the exception NOT the rule. It's not fair to take isolated occurrences against individual players in individual tournaments and say "well you beat them so you're on par with them!" We all have good days and bad days, and when they HAPPEN that I have a good day and other people have bad days....then I can get a win.

Ironically, the only person I have a winning record against is Preston...and I account that to the fact that he's been eliminated by other people before I had to directly play him.

You do make a pretty good argument and I can definitely see your side of it. Maybe this will be the one at BCO2017!

Hoping so.

It's a gonna be a great night for pinball in the lone star state!!!

See ya there and good luck to all!!!

whats the link to watch the standings?

found it from finding last years link and changing the date:

https://www.neverdrains.com/batcity2017/

I'm streaming it here: https://www.twitch.tv/batcitypinballclub

Thanks for posting the link - just watched what was posted from yesterday. I'm a sponsor of the Bat City Open this year but I couldn't be there in person so I really appreciate the connection. There are some of my Daughterboards in the prize pool and there should be a WPC Power Fix t-shirt for a door prize (so you CAN win something with just luck!). The theme for my sponsorship is "Tournaments without resets sponsored by KAHR.US Circuits". Best of luck to all participants and I hope everyone has a great time!

-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or for my Pinball 2000 H+V Video sync combiner kit

I feel like if my scores hold out I'm about to get a whooooole bunch of shit.

Hey, congrats Josh! 9th at a circuit event is something to be proud of!

Frax, from what I saw of your playing in Texas, you should definitely be in A.

Your ranking is top 400 .. if you played more big tournaments you'd be back in the top 100 I'm sure.

So, less moaning, more flipping.

rd