(Topic ID: 148114)

2016 Hobbit Update Thread

By labnip

4 years ago

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  • 1,529 posts
  • 274 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Goronic
  • Topic is favorited by 40 Pinsiders


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#39 4 years ago

3 current hobbit threads.... (4 if you count the basement)?

seems like at least 1-2 too many?

#41 4 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

Death match of


seems pretty simply:

kill the 2 that have dates attached because..... who the hell knows what dates of anything jp-related might be.

2 weeks later
#248 4 years ago

Of all the things to complain about!
It's not like the old direct print cabs switched to decals thing.... This was never promised.

The table looks amazing- powder-coats or not.

My guess is this might be a little perk for the folks that hung in with JJP....

#319 4 years ago
Quoted from Skyemont:

Things are a little different now. Don't you think?

Actually, the EXACT same number of TH machines have shipped in Dec 2014 as Dec 2015....so not so much had changed.

You think machines are going to start shipping "real soon", he probably thought (was promised?) the exact same thing in Dec 2014, Jan 2015, Feb 2015, Mar 2015, Apr 2015, Jun 2015, Jul 2015, Aug 2015, Sep 2015, .....

#321 4 years ago
Quoted from Skyemont:

When did you preorder the hobbit?

I'm going to shock you and let you in on a secret:
Some people prefer to buy stuff that they've seen, is finished and is shipping.
So, if I decide to buy a Hobbit, I'll be ORDERING, not PREordering.

Thanks for playing!

#347 4 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

If the preorder people that you keep bashing didn't preorder, there would very likely not be a hobbit for you to order at all.

Maybe. Or maybe Jack would have had to risk his OWN money.... or borrowed.... and developed a product, built it and sold it when it was completed....like companies have done for centuries before crowdfunding became stylish.

Quoted from Goronic:

So perhaps instead of making preorder customers feel like an idiot,

If you feel dumb for pre-ordering, that sounds more like YOUR issues, not mine. I was simply making a point to refute the morons who insist someone MUST have tied up their money for 2-3 years to have interest on the progress of this machine.

Quoted from Goronic:

perhaps a thank you for taking on the risk would be more relevant?

Na. Maybe on WoZ, but taking preorder money on game2? Not so much....
To be fair, I also didn't "thank" the Predator or Magic Girl preorder people either, so don't feel bad.

Frankly, I think folks tripping over themselves to prepay for stuff at some point becomes counterproductive for pinball.

And I'm not picking on JJP here:
I feel there same way about people that "prepay" for Stern LE slots
People that buy Stern machines on day 1, KNOWING the code isn't complete
etc, etc.

It incents the wrong behaviors from the manufacturers.

Anyways, I'm not saying you or anyone is stupid, (well, you might be, but not necessarily JUST as a result of being a JJP customer*) it's your money. However, neither JJP (not DP, not Stern, etc) gets my money without being able to deliver a real product.

*tongue-in-cheek comment. Specifically noted for the thin-skinned, those with poor reading skills and/or those lacking a sense of humor.

#354 4 years ago
Quoted from BoozeMarlin:

Why should anyone care if people prepay? It's their money and their choice to roll the dice. Might crap out might not. Just don't see what the fuss is all about.

Meh... I agree people can spend their money the way they like....
I feel the same away about people that obsess over playing Lotto....

The issue I was responding to was this sense of arrogance by some who throw a hissy fit if a nonbeliever, er, non-prepayer wants to get involved in the discussion about a game....

But I agree with your point, its your money.
I personally think pre-paying for game 2 and beyond is counterproductive- thats just my opinion.
Others think Im an asshole- I accept that as just as valid an opinion

#364 4 years ago
Quoted from DougPiranha:

I am really excited to get mine when it comes and never considered it an investment...More of a no interest loan to JJP with the hope of a payout. If I lost all the money, I would not of lost sleep. Its a lot better odds than the lottery and since I don't play the lottery, it was my pinball gamble.

That's the best description of prepay I've seen....

Any sentence that has "pinball" and "investment" in it is begging for disappointment.

I hope you get your game soon, and more importantly, I hope it plays as good as it looks!

#370 4 years ago
Quoted from BoozeMarlin:

Interesting, how so?

OK, here goes:

I get the attraction of asking for prepayment for JJP #1. I still challenge the narrative that "it was the ONLY way" to fund the project, but that aside, I get the desire (on both sides) for JJP #1:
JJP needed to develop a completely new platform and build a factory from scratch.... big undertaking.

Funding and building WoZ should have accomplished that and been enough of a proof-of-concept that JJP #2 would be less of an unknown. Platform was developed, factory built, lessons learned, etc. Taking multi-year prepayment for TH was a different story. There wasn't this great story to tell about "helping to launch a new pinball company"....

Why the need for prepayment AGAIN? Well, one disturbing theory is this:
JJP didn't have the funds to build the machines it has pre-sold. So, prepayment on TH was diverted to cover completing WoZ. Yes, this is conjecture, but I think there were signs to support this (vendors not getting paid, JJP seemingly unable to inventory parts efficiently, breaking promises and shipping new orders ahead of old ones, etc). This scheme obviously can't go on forever and eventually "stealing from Peter to pay Paul" would catch up unless....... yes, cash infusion from outside investment.

Yes, I think this quickly turns into a bad scenario for pinball. Why? Well, we may have been one last-minute cash infusion away from a repeat of the other boutique failures.... But beyond that, it sets this bad precedent of over-promising and under-delivering. When the manufacturer has all (or most) of the revenue already in hand, one of the biggest incentives for delivering a high quality product (in a timely manner) goes out the window. To repeat, this is not solely a JJP issue, it goes for Stern as well!

The "JJP effect", while having given pinball a very cool, innovative machine has also driven price points up and re-verified the appetite to pay years before delivery....

Answer honestly:
If Jack had gone to the bank for a loan (or dispassionate investors) to fund TH, do you think it would still be a year (and counting) late? I'd say "no."

Anyways, lots of opinion and conjecture there, but you asked....

Fair to say WoZ was a great success, eventually.
I just feel THAT should have been the milestone to wean JJP off the prepayment model. Instead, all the risk is AGAIN sitting with the prepayers and the issue is exacerbated with Jack's continued rocky relationship with the truth when it comes to production.

#373 4 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

I'm still patiently waiting for one to show up in this thread.

Or at one of the boutique pinball companies....

#386 4 years ago
Quoted from BoozeMarlin:

Wow! You've definitely made your argument loud and clear. Now that it's done hope you can move on to other issues. Pretty sure you've covered your bases on this.

Yeah... that ended up into "rant territory".... but you asked!

Im happy to move aside and make way for TH updates.....



Hoping the next "update" is machines out the door (rather than subassembly pictures)

#441 4 years ago

Very cool.... Especially that he invited folks to come by for a game or 2!

*crossing fingers that Flippers in Grandy, NC is on the short list for early games. He had a proto Woz, so perhaps he will likewise get an early TH...

#444 4 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

If they do I will see you there


Flippers has GOT LE and AMH now as well (I've not player either yet).

When they get their TH- I am immediately planning a trip to play them all. Ive got space set aside for ONE machine.... all three of those are contenders...mostly a battle between TH and GoT for me. GoT wins the theme battle (by a hair), TH crushes GoT on art/sound, so it will really come down to gameplay for me....

2 weeks later
#536 4 years ago
Quoted from FalconPunch:

So even at full production there are always 60~80 pins in a state of being built before testing?

Seems like there could be lots of explanations:
1. How they define "in assembly." They might be including ANY subassembly that's being worked on.
2. I think it's reasonable that they are building extra machines (and not shipping/finishing them) as they wait for feedback from the test machines. So when they get the "green light" from the field tests- they can blast out a large number.
3. They are full of shit with those numbers

Honestly, I think it's a combination of #1 and #2, but then again, I'm an eternal optimist.

#581 3 years ago

Sexiest pictures on this thread (since boobs were banned).

#588 3 years ago
Quoted from karl:

Getting mighty crowded in the factory. Eye candy

Place looks as full as a centipedes sockdrawer!

#608 3 years ago
Quoted from visi0n:

The ramps really look nice, if the play-testing did find a weakness(i'm not saying it did), additional tacks of weld won't be the end of the world.

How much more expensive would 1-piece ramps be?

2 weeks later
#819 3 years ago

Ramp issue fixed and back out the door in a few weeks time?

Congrats JJP!

**crossing fingers Flippers in Grandy, NC is high on the list**

#830 3 years ago
Quoted from FalconPunch:

I think Jack said at the comic book event that the code should be dropped about 2~3 weeks from now? Not sure how true that is. He mentioned it was about 75% or so complete about a year ago...so Keith probably just wants to release it in one big go instead of in dribs and drabs?

Im a bit surprised the code isn't further along.... no just because Jack used to make a big deal about shipping code 100% (as a dig towards Stern) but more because of the massive delays?

Assuming the delays for the last 15 months have been (as they have said) to improved the artwork (which they have), one would think that extra time would have allowed them to get WAY ahead on code?

#839 3 years ago

Makes sense....

The Empire State Building was constructed in 410 days....so, about 1/3 the time to build the Hobbit. But then again, it doesn't have an LCD display....

#843 3 years ago
Quoted from FalconPunch:

List of things the TH has that the Empire state Building doesn't:
11 unprecedented full control drop targets

Ok, good points....

As far as weight, they're probably about even?

#885 3 years ago
Quoted from robotronjohn:

There are already two in Raleigh and one of them is being delivered to Boxcar today.

Sweet! Expect them to have it plugged-in and running by tomorrow?

the ONE thing i don't like about boxcar is their hours... I'd love to stop in there over lunch...
ok, the OTHER thing is they had WoZ setup pretty hard last time i was there

#887 3 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

If they have it ready I will be there tomorrow.

Same.... they open earlier on Saturdays right, like noon or 1?

Since I gave JJP so much shit for getting this out so late, first games (and a beer to go with it) on me for any pinsiders at boxcars tomorrow!

#891 3 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

Now I am wondering if I should just go over there tonight.
EDIT: I called them, and yes they have The Hobbit - and people are playing it right now. Also they have GOT and TWD (two that I have been wanting to play as well). So I will be there tomorrow at noon (if not later tonight)

Yes, I noticed the same thing when i just went to their website (open at noon tomorrow, btw).

I still havent play GoT, so its a no-brainer trip for me!

(I was thinking Id have to haul ass out to Flippers to see both games anytime soon).

#918 3 years ago

So I just got back from Boxcar in Raleigh- they just rec'd TH Friday.

When I walked in, I was pissed. I had a flashback to driving 3 hours to play a (prototype) WOZ, only to find it unplugged with half the light boards blown.


I asked one of the employees what was up. He said it had run all day Saturday without a problem, but on the first game today, a ball got stuck and they couldn't dislodge it. Even vigorously shaking and tipping the game (damn, it's heavy) would not free this ball:


However, he kindly powered the machine back up as I thought it would still play fine (which it did). Crisis averted! Since they don't own/operate the pin, they didn't have the keys to pull the glass, or it would have been resolved in 60 seconds.

More first impressions detailed here (and some head-head comparisons with GoT)

#924 3 years ago
Quoted from Rick432:

But I don't think it will be a Hobbit-killer. They are significantly different experiences and I think they can coexist in this market.

And TH is no GB killer.... These are 2 total different games!

Lets be honest, many TH pre-orderers have been waiting for 2 (3?) years. They WANT to love the game- pretty understandable. Their status quo is staying with TH at this point..... It's always hard to break the status quo.

A better question might be:
For pinheads that HAVEN'T pre-ordered (yes, believe it or not, there are some of us that wait to play).
What will they (with no emotional pre-order attachment) buy?

I played TH and while it didn't make me want to drop everything and buy one, I think many with preorders will find it's definitely "good enough" to stay on it and wait for delivery. those are two very different standards!

BTW, I felt the same way about GoT. Love the theme. Played it, enjoyed it, but not ready to buy one yet.

#926 3 years ago
Quoted from Rick432:

Agreed. I just think given that JJP is the newer and more vulnerable company between JJP and Stern, that it would be more likely for Stern to field a pin that could really hurt JJP rather than for JJP to field one that could really hurt Stern. But I actually think these two pins represent the best of both worlds. They are entirely different approaches to pin, and they both represent really solid examples of what the JJP school and Stern school can produce. And I sincerely believe they represent how the two design philosophies can coexist. They both look fun, but very, very different.


The game I think *could* have been a "TH Killer" was GOT. But not the GoT that stern made .
If Stern would have unveiled an LCD GoT with great sound and art (to go with the fun gameplay), i think it could have siphoned off TH folks, especially back when TH shipments were still "coming soon", Maybe not a "TH killer" - but perhaps a "Th-gut punch"

#931 3 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

I think GoT Pro benefits from the lack of upper PF, tbh. It looks really out of place and ugly, as if it has just been dropped on top of the game, and really interupts the great flow that the Pro exhibits.

Agreed- I was really disappointed with the GoT upf . It just felt WAY too dominant.

Quoted from rubberducks:

Display looks wack for '16 on GB imo, and the lighting is really sad. People are doing backflips about the cabinet art, which I agree looks superb, but then say the lighting and DMD don't matter, despite those being the interactive visual elements; once you're playing the game you don't even see the cabinet art.

Couple things:
While the ball was in play on TH, I barely noticed the LCD either...
Also, to be fair, people are also raving about the PF art on GB, not just the cabinet art and that *IS* very much a part of the gameplay experience.

#943 3 years ago
Quoted from FalconPunch:

The 15th greastest game.... Of all time

Well, thats 25% better than Woz....

But seriously- pretty ridiculous it's already ranked. Half the reviews from nearly a year ago? Some based on the youtube video?


I know the rating are near-meaningless anymore, but pinside reduced their credibility even more with posting them so soon.
*note- not picking on TH, Im sure there's already gushing reviews in the queue for ghostbusters from people that havent played that title either...

#987 3 years ago
Quoted from wtatumjr:

Here's a pic from last night at Flipper's in NC in darker light. I only got a little of the upper translight but you can see it's kind of washed out looking.


Flippers has TH at $0.50 a game?

I love that place.

#989 3 years ago
Quoted from wtatumjr:

Yes , only 50 cents. I played a few games then gave away my tokens to a 5 year old kid that was begging. I was so pleased to see a kid into pinball and not video games.

Its such a great place. I remember the first time I went, I immediately bought like $30 or $40 worth of tokens when i saw just how many GREAT games they had....

3 hours later, I still had a pocket full of tokens due to the low prices!

1 week later
#1181 3 years ago
Quoted from Eryeal:

This is happening quite a bit with the ball getting wedged into a pop-up - I wonder if it's possible to fix this in any way?

I've been to boxcars 3 times since they got TH and 2 of the 3 times the TH was malfunctions to the point where it was turned off.... I'm assuming if they had keys to pull the glass, it wouldn't have been an issue. However, for a game that needs to withstand the wear and tear on location- sometimes in locations where they don't have keys onsite- this seems to be an issue.

If the ball is getting physically stuck- I can't see this as an issue correctable with software. Perhaps some adjustments to the mechs?

#1194 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

probably getting stuck based on the cycles they are using during ball search... that kind of behavior can be changed with software. Hold the monster up longer.. use more force.. etc.

Good point. However, that was only one of the ball hangups I saw on this particular TH. Another was hung up in the wire-frame and no amount of banging/tipping could dislodge it. Perhaps better ball search logic would have allowed the game to continue to run without one ball, but I think A physical change or mod would need to occur if this is a reoccurring issue of a ball getting stuck.

#1240 3 years ago
Quoted from Msch:

Not to pile on, but should not have someone hit the right ramp to start a mode before the pin left the factory? Maybe plunged a ball?

Stop. Does not Compute.

Only Stern ships machine without perfect QC or incomplete code.

#1264 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Im not even gunna start with the list of issues my WOZ had when I got it. I will just say that both JJP and Stern need to tighten up their QC.

yes, that was my point.... BOTH have room for improvement. I only wish WE, the consumers, would better hold them accountable for it. As it stands now, it's just the opposite.

#1308 3 years ago
Quoted from Bobby:

Anyone know about "thicker/glossier decals on the SE? Heard it was a $400 up charge. Is it worth it?

#1343 3 years ago
Quoted from someoneelse:

I'm guessing it's the rollovers and troll flaps deflecting the ball that causes the weird ball movement he's referring to. They do tend to interfere heavily with balls traveling slowly.

Yes, I was assuming the same.

I wonder if any of the folks that have the game setup at a steeper angle are experiencing as many hang-ups?

#1357 3 years ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

The polite response would be

If you think Lloyd is impolite, you must faint at the typical pinside responses...

#1370 3 years ago
Quoted from Knx873:

I plugged in the little blue and white wire and bingo the screen works! Also the screen flipped the correct way thanks for the help!! After I play a couple balls the right lower flipper becomes weak I adjusted the button and it seemed to help a bit.

Good catch! (and great forum troubleshooting from LTG and Pinchroma- as usual).

Gotta love the connectors that are completely unplugged! Its the damn ones that LOOK connected but have loosened a bit that are more hellish to find! Or when 1 lead has wriggled out of the connector.... ugh.

You are likely now logging 8 straight hours of gameplay and not reading this, but enjoy anyways!

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