Um..... you guys know about the PM system?

You really need THREE threads.... total.

1. Updates/news. This is a locked thread, opened for REAL updates only. Long on facts, shorty on commentary. Im pretty sure pinside has done these in the past for other boutiques. btw- THIS thread has 2-3 posts right in the beginning from panzer that would be perfect starters for such a thread.... Folks can jump in, gets the facts, and jump out without wading into long discussions.

2. Discussion thread. This is for, well, discussion, pros and cons..... everyone knows what this looks like.

3. Fan Thread. This thread is more of your "members-only" type thread. Its not meant for folks that want to criticize the business model, manufacturing schedule, etc, etc. Its for folks that have already made their decision to purchase and want to discuss the game in peace without the critics and feeling the need to defend their purchase.

3 threads- and everyone is happy... it might sound like overkill, but when you consider how inefficient the current system is- I think it would make for happier users.

Thoughts?

and I'm not saying you should..... But that's exactly what tends to happen.

I wasn't trying to be insulting.... I think "drinking the koolaid" is a fairly common term, but I edited that reference nonetheless so as not to lose the point.

Please!

If Jack had said something smart and insightful, he wouldn't have childishly banned a someone for sharing it.

It's PURELY because he's embarrassed that people were exposed to his asinine comments about Jpop.... And the backlash that followed.

In fact, even the die-hard supporters struggled to defend his comments.... Rather than agree with his comments, the most forceful was to weakly suggest it was just "his opinion" and therefor shouldn't be criticized.

Why? if I had to guess:
1. because its the most active JJP-related thread
2. to fill the vacuum until there's actual updates....
3. Hard to separate jack and jack's behavior from jacks pinball machines

btw- I suggested they create a locked thread with REAL updates only (similar to what they've done for other boutique titles)- so the casual surfer could click the thread, and in 2-3 minutes know every real update- without any commentary. That idea was roundly panned .

Exaggerate much?

Please link the posts where people are suggesting GoT is the "end all/be all cure" for pinball?

Also, what exactly ails pinball that it needs a "cure"?

Huh?

We arent talking about acdc or tron though, were talking about a JJP game.... Where "limited" is measured in the thousands!

For a better example, look how 'hard' it is to find a WoZ LE...... Pretty damn easy.....

Sorry, but your example fails.

great news.... I feel 10x more confident now that JJP CAN/WILL really jettison the prepay fiasco moving forward...

Congrats to Jack & JJP for securing the investment to further fund the business! Really great development!

Yeah, kinda sad when a year later- showing a picture that they seem to have enough parts to build... what 150-200 is an "update"

I was really thinking there'd be a few of these in the wild by Winter.... I want to SEE/PLAY one before I commit on GOT (been leaning AWAY from TH, but not 100%), but now its feeling like its still more months before I'll come across one on location....

And, worse, the wait for Lawlor's game gets pushed our further and further....

Yes, but that news will be likely stuff Jack SAYS. With his track record, I'm more interested in what they actually DO at this point- specifically in regards to shipping dates.

He's certainly done new and amazing things with this new platform, but its also fair to say he has nearly zero credibility when it comes to his promises about production.

Well, history has shown the pre-payers tend to be a fairly stubborn group. Yes, they may say they are mad, and give ultimatums (and SOME do bail) by many (most?) just sit back and take it....

The lies and delays are all written off to "well, we're actually better off that Th is a year late because it will be BETTER" and thus somehow feel like JJP has done them favor..... As if they've completely discounted the possibility that JJP could delver a great game AND not lie about the delivery dates....

Some will point to GoT and say "See, THIS is what you get when you demand things on time!!!!!"

But at the end of the day, the majority will continue to wait...

Well, its not as expensive for JJP.... why?

Because during this year-long "delay" they have been cranking out WoZ's at full steam...... all bringing in NEW money.

I said it 6 months ago- and maintain the same today - when there's no more WoZ's to ship/build, TH will "miraculously" be ready for assembly....

I think much of this "delay" was simply JJP maximizing the demand for WoZ and putting TH on the backburner for the new money business....

Of course its a good idea to build some extra Woz for stock- but that wasn't an option until very recently... Jack mentioned several times they still had a multi-week long backlog of WoZs to build and they COULDNT build extras for "stock."

Of course its pure conjecture, but i think the timing is interesting - TH ramping up for production JUST as the backlog of WoZ is caught up.... Makes more sense then they are so disorganized that they are JUST now getting parts in? To believe that you'd have to also then believe they NEVER intended to build these games anywhere NEAR what Jack had promised.

Either way, the point is, watch what they DO, not what they say (regarding shipping).

Enough of parts coming in!

The most important picture JJP needs to post is one of these sweet looking PF's..... on the assembly line!

btw- again- as someone who's desperately trying to rationalize a GoT purchase (and has been scrutinizing the PF to no end), the evolution of the TH PF is really amazing.

2/ year?

titles.... or machines?

JUUUUUUUUST Kiddin'

Well, one guy might.... He fastidiously counts all BOM parts when professing the merits of the JJPs games. But, if they switched it with a toy- he'd probably be OK.

I was thinking there might be some mode that the trolls would stay up and using the upper flipper would be the ONLY way to make a shot....

Hard to tell from the videos if that's even possible.

Still, if that's the worst criticism of the game, that's pretty minor.

No question, the game is certainly the most striking visually and audio-ly . Audibly....aurially... Whatever.
My bigger concern is overall speed of play.... So I can't wait to play one on location.... Hopefully the guys at a Flippers have an early order in!

That's one of my concerns.... Nice to hear your feedback on the latest gameplay...

Also, the vid below from Roger playing it certainly doesn't look stop & go....

I'll NEVER prepay for a game, so a buying decison for me still sadly seems like a long way off, but TH is certainly growing on me....especially with my interest waning on GoT.

It's (Bankers place) pinball heaven.

You lost me at "Jack said"

SEEMS like it's actually getting close though.... I'd love Jack to just STOP talking about it and they *BAM* post a photo of the first ones getting loaded on the first truck.

yeah, well , everyone gets fooled....

case in point, even pinside still thinks this is a 2014 game

Screen Shot 2015-10-20 at 1.31.36 PM.png

With the increasing cost of games - I could see this being a decent option for a game going on location. Those are going to get a TON on plays and the protector might help maintain some resale value for the operator.

But for a HUO game? Seems dumb. Beyond overkill- I could see it doing more harm if crap got under it..... Now that's assuming JJP puts Mylar down where they need to (unlike WoZ)....

At the end of the day, though, I think it's pretty cool that JJP makes it a factory option- it would certainly be a pain in the ass to do it right aftermarket!

I think that every time I look at the "drac track" on my MB.... Damn giant SLICE cut right into the damn center of the PF!

Seems to hold up though

Im hoping this is just a little "quiet before the storm" and they are so damn close to the start of assembly- they don't want to say anything to jinx it....

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hobbit-update-1/page/177#post-2723895

Sorry.... you lost after the "JJP *SAID*" part

looking forward to photos!

But seriously, sounds like some early adopters will get their machines in 2015..... I'm hoping my guys at Flippers in Grandy are high on the list (but that they DONT end up getting a prototype machine like they did with Woz).

pumped to see this game in the wild

(and be one step closer to JJP #3).

Im hoping for a "2016 Lawlor Update thread" so don't jinx me that this will drag out through all of 2016!

btw- I did notice they changed the listing for TH from "2014" to "2015" recently... (I had previously pointed this out in a typically snarky manner).

Frankly I don't see the "pre-production price" as much of a bargain.... unless you ignore the time value of money.

I guess its OK for people that NEED it as a way to save, kind of like a modern day lay-away scheme....

But, use WoZ as an example:
Did you really SAVE money tying up your cash for YEARS?
Working through multiple iterations of led boards, etc?

It's mostly for folks that want to be bleeding edge adopters and "invest" in the company..... by the way... nothing wrong with that - just not my cup of tea....however, telling yourself its a "money saver" is a bit of a rationalization stretch....

I hate watching TH videos.... it just infuriates me at Stern re: GoT.

Got theme >> TH theme (for me)
TH pinball connection to its theme >>> GoT connection to its theme
gameplay? still undecided.

Wait, thats not exactly accurate either.

Stern may have started kicking around GoT 2 years ago, but they've also pumped out what, like 8 pins since?
JJP has been working on it for more like, what, 3 years? I mean its a year late, so its certainly more than 2 years.

Is JJP a pinball assembly line expert?

What's perfectly clear to me with all these delays and the fact that they are still getting basic parts in NOW is that they never, ever, ever had any intention of building this machine last year. It was a big lie.

The narrative that Jack suddenly pulled the near-ready machine back from the line to make some user-suggested changes and THAT is what caused the delay is horseshit.

Yes, they made changes (definitely for the better), but the machine was never going to ship on time regardless. THAT change just provided a very nice story about the delay....Jack had to be laughing his ass of at the folks, for months, that were defending and lauding the delay as "Jack listening to customers!"

Absurd, but not surprising....

I said as much many months ago when JJP divulged they were still swamped with WoZs and couldn't keep a single machine "on the shelf."

TH would "coincidentally" be ready to assembly once JJP had fulfilled their backorder of WoZs. To JJPs credit, they've still been selling the shit out of WoZ. And there was no way Jack would slow down that gravy train for TH.... If there's one thing everyone should ave learned about JJP it's this:
New money >> old money (pre-orderers)

Where you been playing it?

I played at boxcar and the machine was a bit unforgiving in the setup....

Good point... Add a red hat with white fringe and you'd have Santa as well....

"Production starting" is pretty vague.

If they slap together a few subassemblies on Nov30th at 11:59pm. then "production has begun."

So, it's all a bit of a joke right now.... and somewhat meaningless.

REAL= a finished machine rolling out the shipping dock. Im sure there will be a picture, and then "shit gets real"

I wouldn't EVER wager on JJP production (or on prepaying for that matter), but I'm going to guess they build 2-3 machines/week in December and get +/- 12 out the door by Jan 1st.

So, yes, I think machines will ship this year, however I think its a PIPEDREAM for folks to expect 30, 40, 50 machines a week to come out of JJP! It's more likely it will follow a slightly ramped version of WoZ.

Yay! math!

A couple variables now though:
1. They *presumably* know what they're doing now
2. They have more cash to pay their suppliers and not get part-starved
3. They don't just have one machine to build, WoZ orders (new $$$$) will likely take precedent on the line.

I think #1 & 2 tend to improve their capacity above your prediction
#3 could work against it.

yikes.... that drops his math from 5.73 games day to ~3.7 games/day.

Probably because it wasn't a straight line number....

When everyone was waiting on their WoZ's, they were cranking out 1-2/day
This last year, when most the pre orderers were happy, they were probably up to 6/day

or something like that like that....

Using your definition, "production" started 6 months ago when they put a bolt on a dragon head....

As I said before... with all the shenanigans on timelines here, "production starting" is pretty useless.

First pin rolling off the shipping dock is the next "red letter day" for JJP.

Feels like its getting closer though.... so thats good!

Bring on Lawlor!

Oh the irony of THAT image being used to prove the point!

Can we assume THIS thread will be jettisoned to the basement in 5 weeks when JJP production (yet again) slips into a new year?

Let's face it-

This thread has been offtopic for most of the last 10 months. After the first post, there's been maybe 12 posts that were actual "updates" - the other ~1000? Offtopic.

When it takes 3+ years to start manufacturing on a machine, unless you lock the thread and reopen it for occasional actual news, there's no way it stays on the rails.

Already done.

However, the party-faithfuls successfully got it exiled to the basement so as not to inflict mental anguish on their tender psyches.

And, the OP of this thread was not ready to relinquish the notoriety of HIS thread.... the irony being it was already a duplicate when it was created

Because.... SURELY, suggesting TH will slip into next month is ludicrous, trollish and downright un-pinball. Clearly those fools creating the thread were unaware of the "contractual obligations"

Correct me if Im wrong:

With WoZ, didn't JJP build and ship out a number of prototypes to get some field feedback before moving into production?

If so, wouldn't THAT be a precursor to production in earnest (for customer delivery)?

I only ask because I had the unfortunate pleasure of finding 2 of these prototypes when I was first looking for machines in the wild...

No ip tracking for new account sign ups?

This assclown really pegged the douchebaggery meter quickly...

Well, at least I found another account to ignore.... Yay.... 2.

I agree. I better example (in this case) is:

Apple sells the 64GB version of the phone for $749
they sell the 16GB version for $649.

Did they really take out $100 of memory? No, probably like $10 diff, but they are artificially creating multiple price points. Pretty common across nearly every industry.

Agree 100%

But, for the exact same reasons, its too soon to "spike the football" that its the greatest pinball game ever made.

A few things for certain:
It looks amazing.
It sounds even more amazing.

But since they haven't even shipped ONE, might be a bit soon to take a victory lap

Pretty sure, you, in Canada, do NOT want to actually have this conversation... its inflammatory, off topic and more importantly, ungrateful...

Jack said it best:

"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom....you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. ....my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think... "

Yep.... so more like "Production has officially-ish Started"!

It's good sign, but if someone was still taking bets, I'd consider this an admission that real production will start soon... mostly likely in January.... but not yet.

Crossing fingers for no issues in the prototype phase.... Id like to see one of these in NC in January!

Correct.

Far more woman are.

I assume all the off-color stuff (that appears completely unmoderated?) is just the final death-throws of this thread as its bundled-up for a trip to obscurity in the basement come 1/1/2016.

Tank is not a troll.

Unabashed fanboi? Maybe. But not a troll.

Fun tank fact:
Panzer has used the word "toys" 1.1 million times......it's a fact, I read it on the internet somewhere.

So far - theres still more hobbit THREADS than actual machines built...