I would think that it would be easier for them to do another widebody. They already have known cabinet designs, etc, would be faster to production/market than having to create a second design and source more parts and have a second set of assembly instructions for standard body.

Why in the world would you do that?!?!? Why would you cede fast fun frenetic pinball play soley to the competition? Sure don't skimp on toys, art, video, features, but to say that Stern can just own flow and speed is just plain short sighted. WOW. If all JJP ever cranks out are pretty games loaded with toys that play so so, I for one won't be buying too many. They do need to pump up the adreneline a bit with a faster shooting game to mix things up.

True and maybe his game will be more of a Pat stylized shot perfection game with a great toy. That said, JJP needs to add a flow master to the stable of table designers. They can't get by forever without changing up the play format from what they've accomplished so far with WOZ and TH. That's leaving far too much off the table IMO.

Pats game with JJP is not a wide body. Inside info given to me.

Yes, I see your point. I guess I'm a little tired of the typical fast flowing fan layout with new theme and ruleset slapped on that so many people can't seem to get enough of. There are many great games of that style to choose from already. Then again, it may just be my contrary nature.

I would love to see JJP take on a four flipper game with great flow and interesting loops (like JD for example).

For the record, I think WOZ is fast, fun and frenetic, just in a different (and more interesting to me) way.

Not a chance in heck they lower the price. Why would they? People are buying pins, sight unseen, for the current prices.

If anything, expect another $500 price increase.

Unfortunately we've been in a bad cycle.

JJP announces a pin for $1500 more than Stern > Stern sees people pre-order and raises their prices> JJP sees people buying the higher priced Sterns that have much less content and raises their prices > Stern sees people continuing to pre-order and raises their prices > repeat ad nauseum.

I would love to know what's holding up production.. UL? Sound boards? Motherboards? Hiring staff?

I realize there is one machine we have all played but would that act as a "test machine" or would they put a game at play America or something before production? How long does a company put out a test game before they are comfortable with going to production?

Would love to have some clear understanding on where things are vs. seeing pics of parts taken who knows when and pending who knows what.

When I ordered, I was told there was no guarantee that the price would not go up after production started. This is a pre-production price. But then it was said that the price may stay the same initially for a bit.

Just sayin ... remember that the WOZ price went up once production started to catch up.

Frankly I don't see the "pre-production price" as much of a bargain.... unless you ignore the time value of money.

I guess its OK for people that NEED it as a way to save, kind of like a modern day lay-away scheme....

But, use WoZ as an example:
Did you really SAVE money tying up your cash for YEARS?
Working through multiple iterations of led boards, etc?

It's mostly for folks that want to be bleeding edge adopters and "invest" in the company..... by the way... nothing wrong with that - just not my cup of tea....however, telling yourself its a "money saver" is a bit of a rationalization stretch....

Actually in the case of WOZ it seemed the new money bought the earliest games, while the preorders ended up having to wait unless you were super early in...

Will this pin actually go into production this month? God, I hope so. Place your bets!

I pre-ordered the hobbit 1 1/2 years ago in hopes that I would get mine 'relatively' near the front. I don't want to be one of the first - maybe after a couple of months to hopefully have JJP knock out the production kinks.

And I like the Smuag version better than the LE - so I got that too. (I know that SE versions are available from distribs, but at least I have mine locked in). When I originally ordered I didn't expect the money to be 'tied up' this long, but I see how it happened. Oh well...looking forward to getting it (some day LOL)

Yes, I think I saved money at the $6500 purchase price versus where it would have been, sitting in the bank. That was my reason for pre-ordering as I normally don't like being an early adopter due to the expected growing pains.

WOZ turned out much better than I expected. Unfortunately, if I hadn't had that positive pre-ordering experience, I might not have signed up for other pre-orders that didn't turn out so well.

Two Steps from Hell released a Trailer:
https://www.facebook.com/twostepsfromhell/videos/10153360505483090/

Wow!

Looks very good. Hope all that (pre)ordered this game can play it soon.

WOW... goosebumps watching that here!!!

YIKES! That looks amazing. The sound is immersive. I think this pin will be one for the ages. At least that is what I'm hoping!

lol whats the dragon saying at 1:01, I don't know why but it made me laugh. He says something like "my dreams are your dreams" or something

Well the only pinball that could have it would be WoZ or one of the sterns running Spike. So pretty sure nothing comes close in terms of audio content. David gave a really nice talk about it at the expo -

No doubt dollar for dollar JJP builds a great looking game.

Not sure if it has. There have been a few machines that have had the soundtrack provided by Grammy winners.

My wings, are a HURRICANE!!!!!!!!

it moved. wow.

Pinball videos never capture real game play excitement for me - even the WOZ videos seem boring. But this from Two Steps looks very good. I don't think I've ever seen better. If the game is as good as it appears there may be much more demand than supply for a while and it might be better to reserve now. Remember the WOZ price increases - Hobbit might be a $10K game in short time. I ordered from JJP last time and was put near the last of the line while those that ordered from distributors got theirs first - it's fair due to allotments but I learned my lesson and went to a distributor (Pinballstars) for Hobbit. Hobbit looks to be a potential pinball blockbuster.

I like how Smaug has a glowing effect to his body w/internal leds

I hate watching TH videos.... it just infuriates me at Stern re: GoT.

Got theme >> TH theme (for me)
TH pinball connection to its theme >>> GoT connection to its theme
gameplay? still undecided.

Its safe to say both companies spent two years on each pin. Goes to show you what that actually means when you compare the two.

Wait, thats not exactly accurate either.

Stern may have started kicking around GoT 2 years ago, but they've also pumped out what, like 8 pins since?
JJP has been working on it for more like, what, 3 years? I mean its a year late, so its certainly more than 2 years.

I was very close to pulling the trigger on GoT pro today.
I was at the bank and walked out before starting the wire transfer.
I have 4 standard body stern pins.I already have fast ramps to flipper action.
I think GoT might be redundant with what I already own.
The Hobbit is a wide body.The ball might bounce around in the middle more.The ramps seem slower.
But after watching the Two steps from hell video.With the 12,000 point reverse LOCK rollover skill shot.
I thought that was brilliant and different than anything I own.
It might be nice to own a pin that slows things down a bit and has long not so easy shots.
I think it's time for something different!

Well this is certainly a much better use for that nice sound system than endless "off to see the wizard". Sounds great.

Thanks

So next showing of TH will likely be at IAAPA this Nov 17-20. Any predictions on anything new being shown? What questions should i ask? Not in on TH but certainly open to asking questions for people.

Will TH have a knocker like WoZ did?

FB comment by Two Steps From Hell..."There are about 35 tracks in the Hobbit. A few from Battlecry, a few from Classics 2 and a few from other albums, but the vast majority of tracks are new unreleased"

Extremely compelling at this juncture.

Yes.

LTG : )

How about how many more shipping dates are going to be missed?

TH looks awesome, but for crying out loud, the movie and theme are OLD NEWS. I wish TH really was "contractually obligated to start shipping" when the last movie came out last year.

Yeah I know, it sucked then.

Get it out so we can move on to Lawlor's pin!

I did pull the trigger on one today. I played it over the weekend and had a blast. I really like Hobbit too, but I'm waiting until they get them out there.

Will you be fulfill new orders before the pre-orders like you did with WoZ?

WOZ was released 74 years after the movie and it sold OK, so Jack still has some time.

I don't think The Hobbit films have quite the shelf life (or popularity) of WOZ. That being said, The Hobbit theme appeals to me a lot more than WOZ.

Well JJP has about 3 weeks left to start production. Will this be another lie?

I miss the thumbs down

How is that working out?

GOT premium ordered 2 weeks ago.

I ordered Hobbit three years ago, so I win.

I can go to Walmart and get GOT right now. I will wait for the better pinball.

Lol! Yes you do! Ha!