Good to know about Central, I'll make sure to put them on my 'go scratch' list for new designs.
-Hans
(Topic ID: 74471)
Quoted from G-P-E:2N5060 series SCR's are now obsolete.
Seriously? That part is *everywhere*
All these parts going out of production really stinks 
MI
So for us less informed in this topic, could someone compile a list of soon hard to find components that absolutely makes sense to purchase for possible future repairs? Thanks in advance, sounds like getting pins repaired in the not so distant future is getting harder and harder
Quoted from Kkuoppamaki:So for us less informed in this topic, could someone compile a list of soon hard to find components that absolutely makes sense to purchase for possible future repairs?
If you can't figure out what you may need, you shouldn't be hoarding components just because... that is exactly what could cause a supply problem.
I hate transistors anyway. I'll have my HS running on vacuum tubes if I have to, I am not afraid.
Quoted from cfh:2n5064 (better than 2n5060) is also going obsolete.
MCR100 is a valid replacement for 2n5060
MCR106 works for the bigger ones used on a bally lamp board.
I think these are still active. You can find them relatively cheap.
Quoted from KenLayton:If the component supply to repair pinball boards becomes a major problem, then it might be a better option to design a new replacement board.
True that.
Some system 11 display driver chips were already in the +20 range (each) but buying a replacement LED display is the way to go if you need the unobtanium driver chips or display glass.
New driver and sound boards will be needed at some point for repair or replacement if components are not available.
Quoted from KenLayton:If the component supply to repair pinball boards becomes a major problem, then it might be a better option to design a new replacement board.
Funny this is said -
Several years ago, when I bought a PinLED WPC driver board to replace the toasted WPC one, two separate other collectors said it was a bad idea, because of the SMD components.
Now, it almost doesn't matter..! 
The MCR100 is a valid sub but was on the same last time buy (LTB) as the 2N5060 series parts (2N5060 thru 2N5064). EVERY remaining On-Semi/Motorola part that has the TO-92 package was on that list. My first box of 10000 x 2N5064 SCRs showed up today, supposed to be another one coming. This should last a few years.
Also, the Philips BT169D is still active and a good sub. However, Philips has recently also gone thru a major purge of thru-hole type parts. Their BT169 series remains active but not sure for how long. Hopefully a long time.
To create a list of parts that are no longer made... pretty much look at your CPU board. Majority of the active components are obsolete. Much of the low level logic (small ICs) are still made but the prices have increased quite a bit. Bally high voltage parts -- I blew a chance to stock up on 2N3440s after the LTB went out. I bought Clay a box plus all of two boxes for myself while prices were still low. I thought I had more time to stock up 'later' before the prices went up - I was wrong. Seems that a huge percentage of "new from factory" thru hole parts are going quite high in price.
1 week later
Curious if t106 can be subbed with mcr106 or c106. Both have similar specs and are currently easier and cheaper to get.
Quoted from Schwaggs:This whole thread makes me sick to my stomach!
Ed, any suggestions for a "hording" order list for common pinball parts?
I know, I don't like this thread. Can you imagine if machines start becoming useless sometime in the future because of some previous 20 cent part that is no longer made or available...
...the horror. 
Quoted from Atomicboy:I know, I don't like this thread. Can you imagine if machines start becoming useless sometime in the future because of some previous 20 cent part that is no longer made or available...
...the horror.
We'll have to pull a doc brown and make a new part using 1950's technology and have it take up 100 times the space
Quoted from Atomicboy:I know, I don't like this thread. Can you imagine if machines start becoming useless sometime in the future because of some previous 20 cent part that is no longer made or available...
...the horror.
Quoted from lordloss:We'll have to pull a doc brown and make a new part using 1950's technology and have it take up 100 times the space
You could.. uh.. get a board with SMD parts.
Quoted from Kkuoppamaki:So for us less informed in this topic, could someone compile a list of soon hard to find components that absolutely makes sense to purchase for possible future repairs? Thanks in advance, sounds like getting pins repaired in the not so distant future is getting harder and harder
That is not an unreasonable request in my view. Just wanting to hedge against having 350 pound anchors sitting around the house for probably 50 - 100 bucks. If pinball enthusiasts don't do it, then radio guys or some other electronic hobby, business will do it.
FWIW all those old busted up "worthless" circuit boards will just be worth more in the future. If things get to the point where the only supply of some critical components is off dead boards, I guess so be it.
IF there is a future where repro boards exist, and the broken ones can be parted out to save more boards, then that does not sound too terrible.
That being said, I always have to fight the urge to place a $100 order with GPE when I see this thread... I think I need some more fuse holder clips.... we'll see what else sneaks in.
Would like to see a nice equivalent list for parts. Seems like even though I'm more comfortable with data sheets I still am uncomfortable with knowing that specs are 'close enough'.
Quoted from shimoda:Curious if t106 can be subbed with mcr106 or c106. Both have similar specs and are currently easier and cheaper to get.
Yes, all the 106 SCRs should be compatible. The differences are packages and maybe manufacturer. I like the MCR106 package the best for the lamp driver board, they are smaller. Compared to T106 have the big metal tab which just gets in the way and smooshed on top of each other.
Check this sucker out.
High efficiency LM323K Replacement.
http://www.ezsbc.com/index.php/featured-products-list-home-page/psu5.html#.VJiej14AAA
Eventually we will resort to this kind of stuff I assume. SMT to DIP adapter boards and what not.
2 months later
Desperately trying to stock up on some of these fading away parts but it's getting harder and harder.
My On Semi order for 10,000 2N5064's and 2N6427's got cancelled.
Fortunately, I already have a bunch of the 2N5064's but my 2N6427's are pretty much gone. Other source for these was Fairchild... also obsolete.
AND - I procrastinated restocking Gottlieb edge connectors until after the first of the year. Big mistake... I didn't catch this one in time but Molex discontinued their 2574 series edge connectors (white single sided edge connectors). I didn't get my order placed in time before their mandatory price doubling... that REALLY sucks! I really hope the Gottlieb CPU/Driver replacement boards are considering adding readily available connectors to their design.
The MCR106's mentioned above -- those are still available...this week...
5 months later
Instead of starting a new thread, thought I would just add something fresh here and just bump this one.
As some of you might know, the going rate (places like Mouser, Digikey, Arrow) for an LM338K (5 amp adjustable TO-3 regulator) is around $42-$50. That's each!
As I use these in quantity throughout the year, and hoping for the best, I ordered a batch off Ebay from China where there are a number of sellers selling them for between $2 and $4. They arrived promptly but unfortunately, were fakes (substitute testing makes me believe they are relabeled LM317Ks as they function fine as an adjustable regulator under low load conditions).
So, I found a US seller also selling them on Amazon for around $2 each in pairs. Again, when tested, they were fakes. Fortunately, this seller happily refunded my purchase.
So just for fun and giggles, I thought I would chop the tops off and see what's inside. Attached, is a photo of 3 parts. The left one, and center one, are fake parts from two different suppliers (one labeled as a National Semiconductor part, the other as an ST brand). The part on the right is a legitimate, working National Semiconductor brand LM338K STEELP+ with a manufacturers code of H24AD. The fakes were: NSC H:1027 and ST Malaysia 0632. Both fakes have large blue insulators for the leads. The "internal" dead give-away are the multiple thicker leads going from the die to one of the leads. The fakes only had a single thin conductor which opens up under loading. After all, this part must be able to handle 5 amps of current through case and one lead.
Not surprising, ebay is flooded with that counterfeit crap.
That $2 to $4 each for their sell price is definitely cheaper than what it was to buy direct from manufacturer.
I still have about 18 cases of various ST voltage regulators and transistors in TO-3 metal can packages -- all bought when ST announced their last-time-buy. Fortunately On-Semi still makes most of the transistors but availability of the regulators may become a problem in the future. That's where EZSBC may come to the rescue.
Seems that all of the ST parts made within their last few months had those blue insulators. All of the voltage regulators had small blue insulators, all of the transistors have large blue insulators (just like the photo's). Would be interesting to know what exactly is inside those parts. My guess -- an ST 2N3055 or similar lower cost TO-3 transistor. Just remark something that has the correct form factor - they don't give a hoot as to whether it works, doesn't work or goes down in flames. As long as they have your money, they don't care.
Yikes!
If you have to use ebay China. Try to get used pulls over remarks (sold as new). I started to type out how I successfully buy stuff from China... but it is a bit complex and well.. yeah other things....
It is like downloading torrents from a public tracker. You have to know what to look for... But if you have a private trusted (tracker) in (Shenzen) you do good.
Quoted from CactusJack:As some of you might know, the going rate (places like Mouser, Digikey, Arrow) for an LM338K (5 amp adjustable TO-3 regulator) is around $42-$50. That's each!
Ouch! So what I'm hearing is that someone should make a 5A +5V switcher which can fit in existing TO3 case?
Quoted from Zitt:Ouch! So what I'm hearing is that someone should make a 5A +5V switcher which can fit in existing TO3 case?
No, not exactly. In this case, two LM338Ks are used in Tandem (with an op-amp) to form a 10 Amp regulator. And the "plug and play" issue is that just like an LM317K, these are adjustable regulators and do not have the normal: input- ground-output as their three connections. So, it would be complicated to make a regulator other than another linear adjustable regulator that would mount directly in place of the TO-3 package.
However, I have already ordered a sample 15Amp buck regulator module to test in place of the dual LM338K circuit. 10 amp, 12 amp, and 15 amp modules already exist all for between $5-$10. If it works, I will simply layout out an equivalent PCB to straddle the foot print of the two regulators (a ground wire connection will be required). And, just like the EZSBC products (which I really like!) it should run a lot cooler.
And Ed,
The reason I cut them open was to see what was inside. I too thought they might be something like a cheap 2N3055. I believe that these are fully functional LM317K parts since they function in a single regulator adjustable circuit just fine. They just fuse themselves open when installed in the 5 amp / 10 amp tandem circuit. If you look at many of the ebay ads, they all feature the larger blue insulators. In fact, so do most of the LM317Ks for sale. I will certainly stick with sellers featuring the smaller lead insulators in future purchases. Of course, you can't control it if they substitute parts that are not pictured.
This is only the 2nd time I have been burned on semi-conductors from China. So, I am not really complaining, just trying to put the word out for others that might do a web search in the near future.
Quoted from CactusJack:However, I have already ordered a sample 15Amp buck regulator module to test in place of the dual LM338K circuit. 10 amp, 12 amp, and 15 amp modules already exist all for between $5-$10. If it works, I will simply layout out an equivalent PCB to straddle the foot print of the two regulators (a ground wire connection will be required).
Very good solution. I would do the same.
3 weeks later
I spent some time Friday removing good DIP ICs off a corroded CPU to stockpile for future use. I have to admit that I was wondering if I was wasting my time. I guess not.
Time to figure out smt to dip adapters in a broad universal scale. The pin layouts are the same for the most part i can tell.
Quoted from G-P-E:Latest news -- I was told *ALL* DIP style logic devices to be phased out within two years.
On-Semi (Motorola), Philips, ST and others have already done so. TI is sole survivor ... for now.
This doesn't really surprise me; but really... what do EE students do now in LABs? I remember using solderless breadboards and DIP packages all the time... how does the universities teach electrical engineering now?
Very disappointing; but I'm guessing it'll take years for the current stock to disappear...and then decades for "pulls" to disappear.
Quoted from Zitt:This doesn't really surprise me; but really... what do EE students do now in LABs? I remember using solderless breadboards and DIP packages all the time... how does the universities teach electrical engineering now?
Very disappointing; but I'm guessing it'll take years for the current stock to disappear...and then decades for "pulls" to disappear.
Sucks to hear that Dip package is going totally away. Especially with the China Counterfeit stuff flooding the market. Even some US sellers are selling the stuff they bought from China thinking they are legitimate parts. Soon, it won't even be safe to order a 74LS04 in dip package.
Unfortunately it seems inevitable. Friend had me look at his sound on IM yesterday. I hadn't taken a look at the SAM system really before and he had no manual/schematics for it. The speaker panel speakers don't work but the mid and sub in the cabinet do. Without a schematic I have no way to troubleshoot for him and the 'manual' stern has online isn't a manual at all but a pdf scan of some, not all of the manual. Of course I'm expecting that Stern is moving the way of everyone else in not including schematics for the sake of repair down the road and in some ways it makes sense as for most of these things you need a hot air rework station to do repairs. Of course in this specific case, I can't understand why Stern isn't posting the publishing pdf rather than a crappy scan. Nonetheless, the move to smd is like the move to more complex automotive systems where the shade tree electrician will soon be a relic of the past.
Not surprising to hear this. I'd guess that less than 1% of the designs we're assembling at my full-time job are using DIP components of any type, and most of those are for things like opto-isolators and such. We'll go a month or two sometimes between work orders that actually use our DIP insertion machine these days, mainly for a few legacy boards that are only still being made to support existing systems.
-Hans
True, but it will certainly suck even more having to pay 3 to 10 times what we paid for the DIP IC just for the adapters. Did you see the pricing for some of those 300 mil wide adapters? $3.50 plus another $3 for shipping (14 pin). The cheap ones are too wide for DIP replacements but will work for Breadboarding.
Quoted from Zitt:This doesn't really surprise me; but really... what do EE students do now in LABs? I remember using solderless breadboards and DIP packages all the time... how does the universities teach electrical engineering now?
Very disappointing; but I'm guessing it'll take years for the current stock to disappear...and then decades for "pulls" to disappear.
For development and testing in school -- my son was using a generic Xilinx FPGA development board. Write code in VHDL to emulate nearly any logic and stuff it into the FPGA. Watch what it does using 'chip-scope' and reprogram it as often as you wish.
I managed to fit an entire Gottlieb System 80 CPU board (minus NVRAM) into an FPGA -- CPU, Three RIOT's, decode logic, scratchpad memory and ROM. It was a small FPGA but was still less than 50% used.
I'd love to learn FPGAs but that seems like a long shot and a long haul to achieve something like this.
Quoted from G-P-E:For development and testing in school -- my son was using a generic Xilinx FPGA development board. Write code in VHDL to emulate nearly any logic and stuff it into the FPGA. Watch what it does using 'chip-scope' and reprogram it as often as you wish.
I managed to fit an entire Gottlieb System 80 CPU board (minus NVRAM) into an FPGA -- CPU, Three RIOT's, decode logic, scratchpad memory and ROM. It was a small FPGA but was still less than 50% used.
Man, if only I could do the development work on something like that, I'd start pushing some serious hardware.
-Hans
2 years later
My Data East Star Trek has been having some issues which I've traced down to a very low (4.4v) +5V power supply.
I went to order some replacement parts from digikey and found that these important parts are out-of-stock as a last time buy.
LM723C - the main +5V regulator chip
2N6284 - the TO3 power darlington which runs the +5V regulator
I was able to secure a UA723CDR in the 14SOIC package and
PA0004-ND
SOIC-14 TO DIP-14 SMT ADAPTER
to hopefully get the PSU healthy for TPF'2018 from Digikey.
I subbed a MJ11012G transistor for the 2N6284
With these chips/transistors going by way of the dodo... I'm starting to get more than a little concerned at the amount of work it's going to be to keep these machines running.
As standard rebuild parts continue to disappear, I think you will see more and more replacement boards designed with newer components.
So it won't be harder, just more expensive to keep them running.
5 months later
Latest updates.
Fairchild Semiconductor was one of my remaining sources for transistors after On-Semi discontinued all TO-92's.
Fairchild is now owned by On-Semiconductor - I am receiving weekly DMSMS reports listing hundreds of parts being discontinued by On-Semi following the acquisition.
And... National Semiconductor has been bought out by Texas Instruments. National Semiconductor is (was) known for their large selection of LMxxx series components. Texas Instruments has issued last time buys for a bunch of the LMxxxx series parts including such popular parts as LM723CN (used in a ton of Gottlieb and Williams power supplies). Fortunately, there is still one alternate part number remaining for now - UA723CN.
Quoted from Zitt:I was able to secure a UA723CDR in the 14SOIC package and
PA0004-ND
SOIC-14 TO DIP-14 SMT ADAPTER
to hopefully get the PSU healthy for TPF'2018 from Digikey.
I subbed a MJ11012G transistor for the 2N6284
...
Quoted from G-P-E:Fortunately, there is still one alternate part number remaining for now - UA723CN.
Yeap. Incidentally; the UA723CDR w/ SOIC-14 dip adapter worked beautify. Played another set of games on the DEST this afternoon.
Regarding the 2N6284 -- that one is still available as part number 2N6284G.
MJ11012G works as well but has less gain. That means the driving part needs to provide more current on the base connection. I don't believe it's enough to make a difference here but never took the time to analyze it. MJ11016G is listed as a 'preferred part' over the MJ11012G. The preferred parts are usually better, more abundant and *usually* cost less. Doesn't seem to be the case this time.
Quoted from G-P-E:Regarding the 2N6284G...
Unsure if that was just general advice; or you were directing at me.
At the time *I* ordered... TO3s were in very short supply at Digikey. I did the best I could with what I had available at the time of order.
That said; I'm not 100% sure I replaced my 2N6284... It's possible just the UA723CDR was all I need to get the PSU functional.
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