(Topic ID: 52825)

2 out of 3 bump poppers stopped working


By Corey58

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 23 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by Corey58
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There have been 6 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

Red_lead_on_the_anode.JPG
Red_lead_on_the_cathode_.JPG
Switch_matrix_ID4.png
scoils.jpg
PC-520-5137-01L.jpg
IMG_2455.JPG

#1 7 years ago

Hello,

I got a 1996 Independence Day machine, and just recently 2 of the 3 bump poppers stopped working.

The working one fells normal and at full power. One kind of works at about 10% power and the other is fully dead.

Would you recommend replacing the 2 faulty ones or is the a common fault or tests to do?

#2 7 years ago

I'd do some digging first.

Go into switch test, does the switches that fire them work ?

Go into coil test, do they fire there.

Do they move freely up and down ?

Broken wires at the coil lugs ? ( the tiny ones from the coil to the lug can be hard to detect a break or crack you have to dig around them )

LTG : )

#3 7 years ago

Thanks,

I worked out how to use the test settings. Both still don't work in test mode.

Neither are jammed or any viable broken wires.

Think i might but 2 new coils as they are on the cheap side.

One last thing with the machine, whats is a little weird.

When the ball go inside the alien head, the coil that kicks the ball back out doesn't always fire, in test mode it works every time.

But inn game play some time the ball will go down there and sit for a few minutes and then fire out. The switch to set the coil off works fine and testes with a multi meter.

The only thing i can thing of that might cause this is these burn makes on this board,
Always had it since i picked the machine up and always been faulty in this way.

Also the ball will sometime auto launch it self randomly (not sure if it related)

IMG_2455.JPG PC-520-5137-01L.jpg

#4 7 years ago

If IMG_2455 is from your game I think some of the magic smoke might have escaped from some of your drivers and other components near them.

Take a peek in your manual and see if the burned looking ones are related to your problem areas.

#5 7 years ago

IMG_2455 is my game board, the other photo is what board it is.

My manual doesn't tell me anything about that board

#6 7 years ago

Bump.

#7 7 years ago

New coils are VERY unlikely to fix your problem.

You need to identify which transistors drive the affected bumpers and test those transistors.

Do you have a multimenter and are you able to use it?

#8 7 years ago

own and know how to use a multi meter.

any easy way to locate the transistor as there is just a few.

Also would faulty transistors cause game play errors, such as when i get the ball down the alien head the game thinks i got it down another hole and give me the wrong points and show the wrong combo on the dox screen?

as it is easy to see in the picture above that there is a few transistors that look burnt out on the power board

#9 7 years ago

i pulled out both the old coils, cleaned them and they worked again, lots of wear marks on the coil sleeves. Time to replace them?

So now only issue i have is the when certain things are trigged the wrong things happen.

In that photo above, the transistor below the black smoke mark looks dead, you can see the solder melted and few pins are touching from it, and there a hole in the board from melting around one of the transistor pins.

Would this cause game play issues or that is controlled by another board?

Thanks

#10 7 years ago

Sounds like a switch matrix problem, which can be playfield or board related. Go into switch edge test and go through all of the switches and make note of any that when closed cause two switches to indicate closed.

Also note any that are normally closed (optical switches, trough switches, etc.). These will indicate closed in the switch edge display.

Report back here with the switch numbers (from the switch matrix sheet in the manual) that are causing problems.

#11 7 years ago

The circuit diagram will tell you which coil is driver by which transistor

For example - right bumper (coil #11) is driven by Q11

scoils.jpg

#12 7 years ago

Thanks for the help.

The burnt out looking transistor are Q9 and the Q10 above it, but all bumpers are working good now. One was installed upside down with a hose clamp as the bracket was broken. and the other worked after a clean. I thing the burnt out transistor may be a old burnt mark and it been repaired in the past.

The old owner sold it because a tech told them that burnt mark made there left flipper stop working when all it was a bolt dropped out joining the flipper to the coil.

As for the game play issues, after checking all the switches, no switches activate any other beside their own. However i did find a few a few worn out switches that once activated kept activated

#43 head under trough rear
#44 super vuk

Ill replace a few of them and see if the game play improves from there.

Thanks again

#13 7 years ago

So i was having another little play today with the switches, and i found something a little weird that makes no sense.

When i activate (#42 alien head opto and #46 head under-trough front) at the same time the DMD shows #10 being active, but in my manual #10 isn't used.

I tried multiple combos with both them switches and nothing weird happen only with them to did #10 show as active

Thanks

Switch_matrix_ID4.png

#14 7 years ago

Check the diodes on 42, 46 and 14. Either reversed or shorted.

#15 7 years ago

checked a few diodes and got a few mixed results.

some of them read .7 or slightly below and then the same ones when testing the other way around would have no reading or a reading above 1.5

way i testes was turned the machine on and when into the switch menu. Activated the switch i was testing and run the multi meter a cross the diode both ways.

Of the five i tested 2 read 0.7 and nil but the other 3 would test 0.7 one way and then the other way would test nil or above 1.5 randomly

also how do i test the op diode? couldn't see it

#16 7 years ago

You need to test the diodes with the game off and your meter in diode/continuity mode.

"A diode can be tested with a DMM set on the diode/continuity mode. Although this mode is typically part of the ohm range selection, it measures the drop in voltage across the diode rather than ohms. Put the positive (red) lead on the anode and the negative (black) lead on the cathode (the side with the band). You should get a reading in diode mode from .3 to .7 volts. Reverse the leads and you should get a null reading (depending on the meter this could be 1. or OL, check your manual if you're not sure).

If either of these readings is out of range, or you read a dead short, the diode is bad. Note: This is not a definitive test, but more often than not will identify a bad diode."

#17 7 years ago

Just retested them all with the machine off and the DMM on continuity mode,

All the light bulb diodes tested normal, but when testing the switches diode they all seam to be faulty.

Also all the switches diodes showed continuity(multi meter beeped) unless i pushed down the switches. Where no diodes beeped on any of the ligths

On the switches i would get readings beteewn .3 to .7 but testing the diode around the other way i would get either .001/.01 reading or reading like 1.1

Did i mess up or all them diodes need replacing?

#18 7 years ago

Great thread I am picking up some good info

#19 7 years ago

If all the diodes where bad you would have many more problems than you're having. I think there's something wrong with the readings, but not sure what.

Closing the switches shouldn't make any difference on the readings you get. You could always lift one side of the diode and test again to make sure, but this really shouldn't make any difference.

As a side note there is no reason to close the switch when taking readings.

Old games often have corrosion on the leads so make sure you've got good contact on the diode leads.

A beep would indicate a dead short and the diode is bad, but again I doubt they're all bad.

The .3 to .7 is probably ok, though not sure why you would get that much variance between diodes. The .001 or .01 would indicate bad, but again I don't think they're all bad.

In regards to the 1.1 reading, is that the null reading on your meter? Turn on the meter, switch to diode/continuity and the reading on the display will be null for your meter (it's different on different meters). Null means open.

#20 7 years ago

Re tested them today,

On all switches the multi meter beeps unless i hold down the switch and they it stops. also when the switch isn't held down i get weird readings.

Once i hold the switch down i get more consistent readings. How ever i don't get a nil reading when switching the multi meter around on the diode. (My multi meter shows 1 on continuity mode when the leads are not touching anything)

Instead of showing 1 i always get a result of 1600 or there about on all tested switches. seen in the photo below

Red_lead_on_the_cathode_.JPG

below in this photo is the reading i get when testing the diodes with the negative (black) lead on the cathode. i got about the same number for all diodes tested.
Red_lead_on_the_anode.JPG

#21 7 years ago

These diodes are all on the new style micro switches as well if that changes anything.

On the old style switches with diodes they all test normally with reading of .5 and nil

Also when i tested the diodes on the pop bumpers they beep as well in continuity mode, but they all working fine as well.

#22 7 years ago

Unsolder one side of the diode and test them.

#23 7 years ago

Thanks Terry,

Ill give that a try when i can, currently away from home ATM.

Will report back with results when i can.

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