(Topic ID: 100124)

1st EM need a little guidance...


By crujones4life

5 years ago



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  • 163 posts
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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by poppapin
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There are 163 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 4.
#1 5 years ago

Just pick up a River Boat yesterday. Everything works however...

1. One score real likes to stick.

2. Left flipper is weak and right trigger is like a machine gun.

3. I need to clean and wax the playfield.

4. Rubbers need replaced.

5. I want to remove and clean the plastics.

6. Machine needs repainted it's original color.

7. Need new balls.

Where should I start? Does it matter? Do you guys shop out/restore your machines in any particular order?
I have never done anything on the above list so any helpful hints you want to share would be greatly appreciated! One thing I am afraid of is does the paint ever come off the playfield when cleaning it? Is it possible to use to much force when cleaning?

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#2 5 years ago

1. Would need more detail to help with this one. Could be a number of things. Which digit is sticking? Once you figure that out, check the relay that controls that digit and see if it is staying energized. If so, that relay needs adjusting probably.

2. I haven't done a flipper rebuild yet, but this may be needed.

3. Use Novus 1 for all the plastics. Use Novus 2 for the playfield. Use a pure carnauba wax after the playfield is completely cleaned.

4. should be a number of sites that sell rubber kits. I just googled my machine and found plenty of options.

5. Do this before cleaning the playfield. To best clean the playfield, you want to completely remove everything. Take tons of pics so you know how to put it back together.

6. This can be done at anytime. Cabinet or playfield or both? If it is playfield, here is a thread that can help:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration

7. Pinballlife.com has all kinds of parts (rubbers, balls, lights, etc)

To start, order all the parts and supplies you need. Once those arrive, take apart the whole playfield and clean it and wax it. Then replace all the playfield parts with your new rubbers and what not.

Enjoy. I just completed my first EM repair, and it was a lot of fun. Take your time, and take lots of pictures for anything you take apart. Also use ziplock bags for parts that you take off and keep things separate.

I hope this helps.

#3 5 years ago

Also, while you have the glass off. Power the game on, start a game and manually test all switches and bumpers. You may have more problems to fix than you see right now.

#4 5 years ago

Say hello to your new bible:

http://www.pinrepair.com/em/

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from crujones4life:

Where should I start?

Get it running first and decide what parts/tools need to be purchased, because you try to only order parts once if possible.

http://www.pbresource.com/how2ordr.html

If this is your first Em i would read this http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm

#6 5 years ago

↑ 20 seconds

#7 5 years ago

Wow thanks for all the info guys! Thanks chuckwurt for breaking it down for me! I appreciate it!

#8 5 years ago

Flippers are more than likely dirty/misadjusted EOS or flipper button switches. Machine gunning can be coil issues. Check all that out. EOS switches need a metal file to clean. Same with the flipper button switches. Might need a rebuild.

Sticking score reel can be dirty circuit boards, misadjusted switches, lots of different things. If you really want the game to score well, take all the reels apart and clean them all up. It's worth it in the long run. That goes for any stepper in the game. The only true way to get them really reliable is go through it all. Check all the relays, switches, steppers etc. It doesn't take that long. If they're working, you can pretty much leave them alone.

If the playfield is dirty, use Magic Eraser and 91% rubbing alcohol, then Novus 2, then wax. Be careful with the ME, it can take paint off.

If you need pictures of the cabinet for a future repaint, I have a pristine one and I'll get them for you.

It's a great game. And it is NOT an easy game.

On parts, Pinball Life is a nice site, but for EMs, Pinball Resource is the ultimate. They have stuff yo wouldn't believe they would have.

If you need help, holler.

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

If this is your first Em i would read this → http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm

TWICE!

#10 5 years ago

Great info thanks guys! Gonna buy everything I need (rubbers, novus, wax, new balls) and clean up what I can in the meantime.

#11 5 years ago

#1) Get the schematic.

#12 5 years ago

There are some wiring diagrams in the machine. Hopefully everything I need is there.

#13 5 years ago

$11.00 shipped for 5 mirror finished pinballs.

$19.00 shipped for 8oz bottles of Novus 1,2,3.

$21.00 shipped for complete rubber ring kit.

Yay or nay?

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from crujones4life:

$11.00 shipped for 5 mirror finished pinballs.
$19.00 shipped for 8oz bottles of Novus 1,2,3.
$21.00 shipped for complete rubber ring kit.
Yay or nay?

From where?

Pinball Resources rubber kit will be cheaper than that, I'm sure. His price for the Novus is cheaper than that. Pinball Life's Ooooh Shiny balls are $1.50 apiece.

Don't buy this stuff off ePay.

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

From where?
Pinball Resources rubber kit will be cheaper than that, I'm sure. His price for the Novus is cheaper than that. Pinball Life's Ooooh Shiny balls are $1.50 apiece.
Don't buy this stuff off ePay.

I checked there and the price wasn't that much cheaper I thought...I figured once shipping was added it would actually be more expensive. I'll have to check again.

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from crujones4life:

I checked there and the price wasn't that much cheaper I thought...I figured once shipping was added it would actually be more expensive. I'll have to check again.

If they can get it all in a flat rate box, it won't be bad for shipping.

Plus, you buy from PBR, you're getting the proper stuff. You buy off ePay, especially something like a ring kit, who the hell knows what you're really going to get.

If you really want to work on a game, a schematic is pretty much a must. These games don't have wiring diagrams, the schematic is what you need.

#17 5 years ago

I have gotten rubber ring kits from Game Room guys, and they have been fine. Just the rubber though, no map on what to use where. They only provide you with one of everything though, so it is pretty easy to figure out. Price is right on what you said too. 20-25 bucks shipped.

#18 5 years ago

Call Steve at Pinball Resource and tell him what you need. He will give you the best shipping rate possible and everything you get will be top notch! You will need a switch adjustment tool, lamp socket cleaning stick and some bulbs.

#19 5 years ago

^^^^
What JBK said

#20 5 years ago

My first rule on EMs, especially if they have been sitting a while, is to take all stepper units apart and clean them. Steppers are typically gummed up and if those don't work right, lots of stuff won't, (and don't just start stretching the springs to get it to advance correctly). Look at the guide posted above for proper way to lubricate them. Using the wrong stuff will come back to haunt you big time. Other then that I rarely clean any relays, switches, stacks or anything else that is not having an issue. Once you get it all working, you then need to play it regularly to keep it that way.

#21 5 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

My first rule on EMs, especially if they have been sitting a while, is to take all stepper units apart and clean them. Steppers are typically gummed up and if those don't work right, lots of stuff won't, (and don't just start stretching the springs to get it to advance correctly). Look at the guide posted above for proper way to lubricate them. Using the wrong stuff will come back to haunt you big time. Other then that I rarely clean any relays, switches, stacks or anything else that is not having an issue. Once you get it all working, you then need to play it regularly to keep it that way.

In my experience (not vast by any means), I would not touch any of the steppers unless you find them not working properly first. This is especially important for first timers I think. I had a gummed up stepper unit, but it took me a few games of play to figure that out. I also didn't have to take the whole stepper apart either. No lube should be used IMO either. I got the stepper running like new buy just using some alcohol and scrubbing the components with an old toothbrush.

#22 5 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

In my experience (not vast by any means), I would not touch any of the steppers unless you find them not working properly first. This is especially important for first timers I think. I had a gummed up stepper unit, but it took me a few games of play to figure that out. I also didn't have to take the whole stepper apart either. No lube should be used IMO either. I got the stepper running like new buy just using some alcohol and scrubbing the components with an old toothbrush.

If you have gunked up steppers, the game will never work properly.

There are pivot points in a stepper mechanism that should have some light lube. If you use synthetic grease on it, you'll be good to go for a long, long time. When you clean up the rivets on the board, a very light coating of grease on those helps also.

You don't necessarily have to take it apart, but if you want long term solid function, it's better to do so.

#23 5 years ago

All I have to add is WOW that is a beautiful game and that playfield is in incredibly nice shape!!!
Looks like not too much cleaning needed. One pass of Novus 2 should do it then a nice carnuba wax and you're good to go!

Congrats on the acquisition!!!

Tom

#24 5 years ago

Myself being a field service engineer for many years, we had a saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

#25 5 years ago
Quoted from poppapin:

Myself being a field service engineer for many years, we had a saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

This is the same advice that car manufacturers used in telling people to change their oil every 15k miles and never change the ATF.

Yeah, it ain't broke now, but if you don't do anything, it's going to break sooner than it should.

#26 5 years ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

If you have gunked up steppers, the game will never work properly.
There are pivot points in a stepper mechanism that should have some light lube. If you use synthetic grease on it, you'll be good to go for a long, long time. When you clean up the rivets on the board, a very light coating of grease on those helps also.
You don't necessarily have to take it apart, but if you want long term solid function, it's better to do so.

Fair enough. I guess I have just been to worried about doing more harm than good if I start adjusting/cleaning/taking apart everything that might not need it.

#27 5 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Fair enough. I guess I have just been to worried about doing more harm than good if I start adjusting/cleaning/taking apart everything that might not need it.

Well, you might, but we trust that everyone here is a top notch EM tech

With digital cameras, it's so much easier. Take lots of pictures, and you'll get things back together just fine.

#28 5 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

In my experience (not vast by any means), I would not touch any of the steppers unless you find them not working properly first.

Although I have only had 5 EMs (so my experience is also not vast), every single one needed most if not all of steppers to be taken apart and cleaned. Maybe that was just the case of me buying machines that had been sitting for years, if not decades. To be clear on what I mean by cleaning, I'm talking about removing the central "gear" and cleaning the 'axle' and the opening it goes through, and using the appropriate lube, as well as cleaning the rivets/contacts and lightly greasing those with the right lube.

As i said, I don't proactively go clean switch blades (on steppers or anywhere else), stacks, etc, which I believe is asking for trouble.

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from homebrood:

All I have to add is WOW that is a beautiful game and that playfield is in incredibly nice shape!!!
Looks like not too much cleaning needed. One pass of Novus 2 should do it then a nice carnuba wax and you're good to go!
Congrats on the acquisition!!!
Tom

Thanks! It's in pretty great shape for a 50 year old game for sure. Only paid $350 for it too.

#30 5 years ago
Quoted from JBK:

Call Steve at Pinball Resource and tell him what you need. He will give you the best shipping rate possible and everything you get will be top notch! You will need a switch adjustment tool, lamp socket cleaning stick and some bulbs.

I'll add those items to my list. Thanks!

#31 5 years ago

I always replace the ball first. They tend to be old and pitted and somehow people like to play a game even when the machine is only partially working. Buy at least 1-2 extra to have. And if nobody mentioned if get some flexstones for cleaning switches. Good luck and welcome to the world of EM's.

#32 5 years ago
Quoted from FirePower:

I always replace the ball first. They tend to be old and pitted and somehow people like to play a game even when the machine is only partially working. Buy at least 1-2 extra to have. And if nobody mentioned if get some flexstones for cleaning switches. Good luck and welcome to the world of EM's.

Thanks! I assume I would use the flex stone in place of a metal file?

Also why is my game shocking me?! Sometimes when I press the left flipper button I get a shock! I don't want my kids to get shocked and then be scared to play it again.

#33 5 years ago

And look what I found...pretty cool.
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#34 5 years ago
Quoted from crujones4life:

Sometimes when I press the left flipper button I get a shock! I don't want my kids to get shocked and then be scared to play it again.

Flipper Button Shocks.
Just like the coin door button, flipper buttons can often give a nice shock too. This usually happens if touching both flipper buttons. Gottlieb used metal flipper buttons from 1960 (wedgehead cabinets) all the way into the 1970s, so this problem is fairly common. Again just like the coin door replay button, there is fish paper which insulates the the metal activator from the flipper switches (which are 30 volts). If the fish paper wears or breaks, the player can get a shock from the flipper buttons. Replace the fish paper (or use electrical tape) and the problem should go away.

#35 5 years ago

Where exactly do I apply the electrical tape?

#36 5 years ago

Before you mess with the tape. Look at the coils for each flipper. Do the look burnt or charred? If so, they probably need replacing. If they look okay, try electrical tape to replace the old cover.

#37 5 years ago
Quoted from crujones4life:

And look what I found...pretty cool.

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check your PMs.

#38 5 years ago

Try reversing the plug in the wall outlet and see if you still get a shock from the flipper button. You need to fix that ASAP, especially if you have kids playing the game. The flipper button itself should be insulated from the switch that it activates as was already mentioned. Replace the insulating material before letting anyone play the machine. Take a DVOM and ground the black lead. Set it on ACV, and touch the red lead to any metal parts someone might touch while playing. If you read any significant AC voltage, you need to track down where the leak is coming from and fix it.
I got a nasty blast once from a friend's Williams "Top Hand" EM when I touched it's lockdown bar and the lockdown bar of the DMD game next to it at the same time. That's because the EM had a hot wire touching a metal component (probably the coin door) and the DMD had a grounded line cord and grounded metal parts which gave the AC from the EM a path to ground through me. As far as I know, my friend never fixed the problem, and subsequently sold the game (not good).

#39 5 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Before you mess with the tape. Look at the coils for each flipper. Do the look burnt or charred? If so, they probably need replacing. If they look okay, try electrical tape to replace the old cover.

the coils won't cause the shock.

#40 5 years ago

Ordered me 5 new pinballs, flipper rebuild kit, rubber ring kit, lamp socket cleaning tool, switch adjustment tool from PBR today. I think he gave me a deal but I couldn't tell cause he was talking so damn fast...was he just in a hurry or is he always that way? I felt like he was getting aggravated with me cause I was taking too long to order...lol.

#41 5 years ago

Reversing the plug in the wall eliminated the shocking! Weird. I cleaned the playfield yesterday and today with magic eraser and 91% alcohol. Really made a difference in some areas of the playfield. One thing I noticed is the tiny crevices now seem just a tad bigger. Is this because I cleaned all the wax of the playfield and out of those crevices? I noticed that with every few games there were little whitish flakes on the playfield (not paint)...I assume it is wax.

#42 5 years ago
Quoted from crujones4life:

Reversing the plug in the wall eliminated the shocking! Weird.

Not weird really. By reversing the plug, you now have the neutral and not the "hot" side in contact with a metal part of your game. This would indicate to me that you have a problem. You need to find out where the line voltage (or now the neutral side) is being conducted to a metal part of your machine. Not addressing this could be hazardous because someone could reverse the plug again at a future time. It tells me that the shocks you were receiving were not from the 24V solenoid power, but were from the 110-120V line power. Fix this before someone is injured. I would start at the coin door wiring.

#43 5 years ago

Dammit. How do I do this? What is the process/procedure for finding the issue and what tools do I need? Also currently my coin door is not attached. The previous owner was getting ready to strip the paint off of it.

#44 5 years ago

So I pulled off one of the coils (on the flipper that was machine gunning) coil stop looks like new but wow the coil sleeve and therefore the coil are toast (burnt toast). Plunger and link were black too. Flipper rebuild kit is on it's way and now it seems I finally have to learn how to solder. Luckily the guy I bought the machine from gave me a new coil as I didn't think to order new ones and I was already way over the $50 maximum order for first time orderers with PBR. Hopefully my other coil is still good. I have a cold heat soldering iron (still in box lol). I know these are not supposed to be that great but would it be good enough for a first timer to replace a coil? What kind of solder should I buy?

#45 5 years ago

Do you own a DMM (Digital Mulity Meter)?
Check the coils wit a DMM, if they give the right ohms than no need to replace unless the bobbins are distorted.
Flipper coils are really two coils, the power coil and the hold coil hence the 3 solder tabs. look at the tabs, see that one tab has a thick wire, one has a thin wire the other has both. measure from the tab to each of the other tabs with your meter on Ohms, should get something like 8 ohms and 50 ohms.

if you don't have a meter and thinking of buying one watch this Youtube first, if noting else you will know what to look for in a meter. and there is one about soldering too, all you need to know.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/thinking-of-buying-a-new-dmm-or-need-to-learn-how-to-solder-%E2%80%93-read-this-thread

#47 5 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

Do you own a DMM (Digital Mulity Meter)?
Check the coils wit a DMM, if they give the right ohms than no need to replace unless the bobbins are distorted.
Flipper coils are really two coils, the power coil and the hold coil hence the 3 solder tabs. look at the tabs, see that one tab has a thick wire, one has a thin wire the other has both. measure from the tab to each of the other tabs with your meter on Ohms, should get something like 8 ohms and 50 ohms.
if you don't have a meter and thinking of buying one watch this Youtube first, if noting else you will know what to look for in a meter. and there is one about soldering too, all you need to know.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/thinking-of-buying-a-new-dmm-or-need-to-learn-how-to-solder-%E2%80%93-read-this-thread

I do have one and I'll check that out thanks for the info!

#49 5 years ago
Quoted from crujones4life:

Any opinions on cold heat soldering iron?

Dont know much about them,i use an old school Weller solder gun.

IMG_2089 - Copy.JPG

How many watts is the cold heat iron?

#50 5 years ago

After many hours I rebuilt the flippers soldered for the first time ever (a new coil) and re rubbered the whole machine. It played fine after the rebuild but after I put new rubbers on this happens?!

Damn video won't upload...but I figured it out. The machine would score a couple times on its own when a new game was started then it made a horrible vibrating sound. Turns out cause new rubbers were so tight a switch on slingshot was making constant contact. All better now. All in all it took me 4 hours to rebuild both flippers, change all rubbers and solder in new coil. The right flipper is beast mode powerful but left flipper (still has old but good coil) only gained minimum power. I did not put in the new EOS switches cause i didnt want to push my luck soldering. I did adjust and file them though. The left flipper i cant move up and down from playfield surface even a little like the right flipper maybe this is causing me to lose some power? Any other ideas?

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