(Topic ID: 197977)

1997 Medieval Madness - New Market Pricing?


By PinCrush

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 89 posts
  • 41 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by gunstarhero
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 5 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

images (resized).jpg
HPIM1520 (resized).jpeg
HPIM1519 (resized).jpeg
IMG_1657 (resized).jpeg
Frank-Zappa_Overnite-Sensation (resized).jpg

There are 89 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 1 year ago

Hey guys... with a kid in college and another to follow soon, need to sell a pin. Looks like I'll never get around to restoring my Medieval Madness so am thinking about letting it go locally. Problem is I have no idea how to price this thing now that MMr has changed the market. Its a typical bowling alley MM. Works but has playfield wear and broken/missing plastics.

I've searched the forum and can't find any guidance other than speculation from back before MMr actually shipped. Google search is not helping me. Wheres the market at on the original MMs?

#2 1 year ago

First off I will open with I don't have a clue because MM or MMr is a game well beyond the price range I can justify for "toys" that rarely get played in our house but I think you "missed the boat" unless you bought that machine fairly cheap.

I would look at the math like this: MMr cost around $9000 and you have a "brand new machine" has driven the prices down to around the same point for nice originals. Assuming yours is decent overall and someone just has to install a playfield, plastics, and a few other odds & ends to make it nice I would think somewhere in the $5000 to $6000 range would be a "fair" starting point.

The someone willing to do the work could invest a couple grand and have a fairly nice machine for $7000 to $8000. As it sits anything over $6000 is likely a stretch and less than $5000 just seems way to cheap. I am sure others will chime in shortly!

#3 1 year ago

Nobody is gonna sell a MM for under 8. 5-6k is a dream.

#4 1 year ago

I know a few like the one you mentioned that sold for 7500-7800 very quickly . Post some pics ...that will help determine a better price.

-2
#5 1 year ago

I'd say a players condition routed unit is about the same price as one of those remakes is new give or take a few hundred.

#6 1 year ago

I'll take it.

15
#7 1 year ago

I don't see why anyone pays 8k for a beat MM when you can get a new MMR for the same price or a used MMR (with upgrades usually) for $7500 but it is what it is. Gotta have that WPC95 boardset I guess. There is something to be said for the original model.

14
#8 1 year ago
Quoted from dsuperbee:

Nobody is gonna sell a MM for under 8. 5-6k is a dream.

I recently turned one down for 6K. It was your basic bowling alley game with little playfield wear.
A number of guys also turned it down.
You can pick up a new game in the box for 8K shipped, why would you pay 8 for something old and worn?
That ship has sailed unless you are talking some sweet, super clean, restored game.

-1
#10 1 year ago
Quoted from bkaelin:

I recently turned one down for 6K.

Glad to see someone's not in it just for the money. That is an $8000 game on this website. People here know the quality and value of the original. It can have a few miles on it, but it was built to last. And plays and looks just like an original.

25
#11 1 year ago

I think you're all smoking crack if you think a player MM is going for 8k.

I have no idea the price, but I would guess about $6500 at best.

#12 1 year ago

I would say an original in very nice shape with a new playfield installed and very good condition everything else is worth slightly more than a new MMR. Like a few hundred bucks to someone who would plain rather have a nice original. So figure if your machine was fully shopped with a new playfield and everything shopped, clean, and unbroken it would probably fetch about $8500. So start deducting from there. Visible wear on the playfield take off $1000. Excessive damage on the cabinet, take off $500. Any other broken parts or worn out parts (display, ramps, plastics) deduct their cost. That's my take on it anyways.

#13 1 year ago

It is easy enough to check the sales history of this or any title. looks like the cheapest one recently was $7200. As much as those with remakes might like to think theirs is worth as much or more, just look at how much the rest of them sold for.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive?s=1&radius_latitude=33.369909511085936&radius_longitude=-117.63673400878906&keywords=&ad_machine_key=869&ad_condition=0&machine_type=&ad_machine_manuf=&year_from=&year_to=&radius_distancekm=322&sort_by=ad_end_date&sort_order=DESC#results

#14 1 year ago

O-din none of those sold except like two and the final sale price was kept private on one. They were also partially restored. (One had PF swap) I hope OP gets his price, but I don't understand why someone would pay 8k for a player MM. OP admitted it was a bowling alley pin and has wear.

Quoted from o-din:

As much as those with remakes might like to think theirs is worth as much or more, just look at how much the rest of them sold for.

I think you have this backwards honestly, but it's all good. GLWS PinCrush, you asked value and I gave you my honest opinion.

#15 1 year ago

Even at $5,000 it will take quite a bit of cash to get something like that into nice shape. Depending on the "wear" you could be looking a new playfield, new plastics/parts, board work etc. For most of us, a lot of that work would need to be farmed out. Far easier to just buy MMR with color display upgrade.

That said, I really hope the seller can get what he wants. I'd bet there are those that MUCH prefer original and have the skill set to fix up whatever wear is present. Heck, I have my AFM palleted and ready to pick up for its trip over to Australia. Buyer wanted an original and doesn't mind dealing with a few issues I was clear about. (Didn't even want the color DMD as he prefers the original DMD so I pulled out the colorDMD and am shipping it without a display.)

My point is, there is someone out there who is likely to pay in the $7,000 range (depending on photos) and if seller is willing to let the pin sit for a while if needed.

#16 1 year ago

I debated an original MM once MMR came out. At that time routed ones were selling for 6500/7k once CG announced it.

I think 6995 is a good starting point. Restored ones with new PFs are selling in the 9 range with high end restores topping out a 11/12.

Quite a change from years back.

#17 1 year ago

The issue I see with the pinball hobby is logic flies right out the window when working up prices on games waiting to be restored (or refurbished). If a nice original (not a HEP or something like that) is worth around $9000 why would anyone pay anything north of $7000 for one needing $2500 worth of work?

Basic math: $9000 value - less $1000 for a playfield, $200 for plastics, another $300 for ramps or other issues, likely also needs some board work, flippers rebuilt, and other work (another $300 to $500 in parts) without considering money for stuff like LED's etc or labor the machines value should be right around $7000. I doubt if you would find anyone to replace playfield, clean up all parts, and reassemble the machine for under $500. Now you are looking at a $6500 pin MAX.

But for some reason in the pinball hobby someone will pay $7500 (or more)? Guess I am looking at things wrong but I really think anything north of about $6000 is a stretch. I am not saying seller shouldn't try for more but I don't see the logic in a buyer paying over about $6000 for it?

-3
#18 1 year ago

I think the question, from somebody that has been an active member on this forum for over 5 years is suspect. The question was planted for entertainment, and seems to be delivering. I have found it interesting, so far.

#19 1 year ago
Quoted from elcolonel:

I think the question, from somebody that has been an active member on this forum for over 5 years is suspect. The question was planted for entertainment, and seems to be delivering. I have found it interesting, so far.

Why would you say that? As you can see from the posts above, there is no consensus on how to price this. You can also see from my posting history that I don't plant seeds here just for the hell of it. I've sold a number of pins to follow pinsiders and have always priced them fair. Just don't know what fair looks like for this one.

Appreciate the input, guys.

#20 1 year ago

Condition, condition, condition.
If its a beater routed for years, 5400, if its in good shape, 6000, of its been upgraded and full of modes, 7-7500.
Good luck. A lot of sharks out there. Dont let someone convince you its a cheap game.

#21 1 year ago

The remakes have affected the very top end of the market much more than the lower end. The same is true for AFM.

Most of us really don't care. Either you want a remake or you want an original and it's hard to convince anybody they should pay less for either.

#22 1 year ago

By the sound of it, I might pay $6K. Might. I don't have nostalgia for an original, and I can see how the original boards and build is appealing to some. I think you need a special buyer. One that cares about an "original", one that enjoys restoration, and one that has plenty of disposable income.

MMr is way too compelling at $8k (who said 9 and why?) for everyone else.

#23 1 year ago
Quoted from PinCrush:

Appreciate the input guys.

Why would you say that? As you can see from the posts above, there is no consensus on how to price this. You can also see from my posting history that I don't plant seeds here just for the hell of it. I've sold a number of pins to follow pinsiders and have always priced them fair. Just don't know what fair looks like for this one.
Appreciate the input, guys.

With how crazy prices have been the past couple years I don't blame you for asking for the input of others in the community. Lots of machines are hard to pin down a logical starting price on but MM has to be one of the tougher ones. Demand is still fairly high on the originals - not many "project" MM come up for sale - and the current pinball market seems to be all over the place when it comes to project machines so if I owned one and wanted to sell it I would ask also.

Starting a little high isn't a bad idea but set your expectations in a realistic range if you do decide to let it go.

#24 1 year ago

I saw one in the condition described sell very quickly for $6400 very recently. I would agree with asking $7000 or maybe $6900. Should sell for $6800 pretty easy imo.

#25 1 year ago

if it's a bowling alley machine may need to replace cab decals too. Kids love to carve their names in stuff.

#26 1 year ago

$6999 obo and see what happens. If you are not in a hurry you can always lower the price later. Somebody that "MUST" have an original might be willing to pay that much. I am getting an MMr for $8K but would pay a 10-15% premium for a nice original with no issues and an excellent playfield.

#27 1 year ago

without seeing the pics its difficult to say, but I say its worth maybe $5-$6K....assuming your gonna sell it at $8-$9K once complete....you'll easily dump $2K + time on this project assuming a play field swap

#28 1 year ago

Given the written description, 5K ish. It's not just the price of new playfield, plastics, cab decals - IF someone wanted to turn it into a beauty because then you'd also have all the labor to get that done as well as miscellaneous other parts. On a decent condition WPC title with any level of complexity I'll spent a few hours just taking the game apart, pics, etc. then a thorough cleaning of anything that moves top or bottom of the playfield, then cleaning, reassembly, and that's just the start. If it weren't for the MMR you'd certainly be looking at more though whether it is worth it...

Boils down to what you want - a fair price for someone else that might either want to just enjoy it mostly as/is or for someone that wants to do a full/near full restore - OR - make top buck b/c of the title. Sounds like you fit the former category more than the latter.

#29 1 year ago

$5k for a MM? Yeah, right. Plenty of people are paying big money for games and plenty of people want an original over a remake. It's one of if not the most popular pins ever made. Not my favorite and wouldn't pay $5k for it but that doesn't mean anything. I would look at what other's are selling for lately and come up with a fair price on the high side. Say price is negotiable and see what offers come in. You can always lower your price.

#30 1 year ago

I have been trying really hard not to jump in on this one but since I'm in the market for a MM/MMR and have been keeping an eye on prices and condition, I'll weigh in. Let's start with how fast do you need it sold. If your just changing the collection and don't care how long it takes, the price can be a bit higher. If your final payment on dialed in is due next week and they are delivering the game in 2 weeks, your gonna take a bit of a hit. Your not NOT going to get the $8000 people are trying to keep this game at. When a new MMr is 8k and used MMr are selling for 7200-7600 with the color display upgrade already in it's a hard sell for an original without color dmd, without LED, and without a new playfield (or new ish). I have $6800 squirled away for this title right now and saving more into the pinball fund as we speak. If I were to get a machine in your described condition, the top of my budget would be about 6k unless there were something there to save me some work (colorDMD, full LED kit, Mylared playfield in good condition) and even then I would still have a hard time spending more when for $1000-$2000 more I could have ready to play game I don't have to or feel like I have to work on.

From the disagree ment in this thread, it seems like there are 2 sides, those who feel that games all have a set price and it doesn't matter what the market is asking and those who calculate cost on what the game sells for in prestine condition and then calculates cost off money and time to get it there. There are people on the far end of both so of coarse your going to get everything from the $15000 it used to go for since that was the price to the $2000 since it will cost $10000-$12000 to get a HEP restore to the $15000 price.

$6000 it will be gone tomorrow , $6500 it will take a few days and someone will grab it, $7000 (that some are suggesting) and it's going to sit waiting for THAT buyer. Anything lower and it better be beat to hell

#31 1 year ago

+1 ^^ you forgot one group those who have the game and hate to see its value drop.

#32 1 year ago

Is that a real Medieval or is that a Sears Medieval?

#33 1 year ago
Quoted from PinCrush:

Why would you say that? As you can see from the posts above, there is no consensus on how to price this. You can also see from my posting history that I don't plant seeds here just for the hell of it. I've sold a number of pins to follow pinsiders and have always priced them fair. Just don't know what fair looks like for this one.
Appreciate the input, guys.

You may just have to pick a number and see what it goes for. I'd start at $7000 or $7500. even if it doesn't sell that gives you the top limit on it. Somebody will pick it up - that's a great game. The logic others have posted about how much it costs to get it refurbished to pristine is correct - however that's not the average buyer. The average buyer may be willing to get a less-than-perfect game and still save $1000 or $2000. You should try to get it in their hands for the number that's best for both of you. For you that's a number that's high enough to justify selling the game. For the buyer, that's a reasonable amount under the retail cost of a new one.

#34 1 year ago

Not to keep beating a dead horse the machine is likely worth $6000 to $6500 to the right guy. If I owned it I would do as others have suggested and list it for $6995 (or something in that range) and see what happens. But to me the "right number is actually closer to $5500 to $6000 based on what it will likely cost to make it fairly nice not based on what someone might be willing to pay for it.

The nice thing about asking a little too much is you can always come down but once it is sold you can't go up on price. So I would blame a seller for trying $7000 and seeing what happens.

15
#35 1 year ago

Honestly, anyone paying more than $5k for a routed looking MM is insane.

New playfield $1000

New decals cab decals $260

New plastics $150

Color DMD $400

New rubbers $25

New ramps & moat $550

LEDs $125

Other parts $500
(sleeves, sockets, posts, screws, polishing compounds, touch up paint, balls, )

=============================
Total $2900

........and the above does not include 100+ hours labor. Even if you only earn $20 a hour, that's another $2000 at least.

At the end of your multi month restoration, you still have an old game with old capacitors, old power supply, mono sound, terrible GI connectors.....

Frank-Zappa_Overnite-Sensation (resized).jpg

#36 1 year ago

You guys are looking at it from a business standpoint - but a lot of times these decisions are emotional: "OMG I love always wanted a MM and here's one for under 8k!"" The buyer may not have all the details at his/her disposal to do the math. If you find s local seller to just come pick it up quick, you can sell it for a good number

#37 1 year ago

It's funny as the op has not posted any pics and all he said is the playfield has some wear and it has some broken plastics and it was in a bowling alley and everybody here seems to know how much it's worth just by that.

Again he asked for reference about what these are selling for and the pinside archive shows low at $7200 but most going for eight grand or more.

#38 1 year ago

Pinball is all emotional....if your looking at it from a business perspective than it will always be a loser....since no pics have been included I suspect its in rough shape so the $3k+ parts estimate is probably correct, and this machine probably needs new almost everything....from a business perspective a fully restored one is probably worth $8500+...so from a business perspective and assuming $3K in parts + $2K in labor its worth at best $3500....if your pricing based on emotion its anyone's guess....lets see a few pics

#40 1 year ago

Tons of really great feedback. Much appreciated. As requested, here are a few pics...

IMG_1657 (resized).jpeg

HPIM1519 (resized).jpeg

HPIM1520 (resized).jpeg

#41 1 year ago

Looks like a fine original machine. A playfield swap isn't the end of the world and you end up with a solid machine. Original is the only way I'd ever own one of these again.

#42 1 year ago

I will give you 5k for it no problem. Where do I send the money?

#43 1 year ago

Looks in decent shape ... lights turn on thats always a good sign....I hope u get max dollar from a pinball collector who wants a project....if your gonna pick a project this is at the top of the list...

#44 1 year ago

Dont look that bad from the few pics..... id bet after a full teardown you wld have a nice original mm.

#45 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Honestly, anyone paying more than $5k for a routed looking MM is insane.
New playfield $1000
New decals cab decals $260
New plastics $150
Color DMD $400
New rubbers $25
New ramps & moat $550
LEDs $125
Other parts $500
(sleeves, sockets, posts, screws, polishing compounds, touch up paint, balls, )
=============================
Total $2900
........and the above does not include 100+ hours labor. Even if you only earn $20 a hour, that's another $2000 at least.
At the end of your multi month restoration, you still have an old game with old capacitors, old power supply, mono sound, terrible GI connectors.....

You can't do this "add it all up" methodology to price everything - people can enjoy a game as it is, every game doesn't have to be perfect. By this logic, cheaper routed titles aren't worth purchasing AT ANY PRICE...

- Fish Tales - $1500
- SAME NEW STUFF Vid Listed - $2900
- Total: $4400
Same Conclusion - purchasing a routed Fish Tales for $1500 is insane!

#46 1 year ago

Cabinet appears to be in pretty good shape. Got any more playfield pictures? If it's not worn to the wood anywhere someone could probably clean up the playfield without replacing it and have a nice looking machine.

#47 1 year ago
Quoted from T7:

You can't do this "add it all up" methodology to price everything

You can, but only because there are brand new, with warranty games available to buy.

Just like you can directly add up the cost of repairing a 2017 Mustang with the fender and door panel dented VS. buying a brand new Mustang - because you can still buy the new ones.

You **COULD** just drive the Mustang around dented, but because it's so valuable, you will probably get a new door skin, fender and paint.

#48 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You can, but only because there are brand new, with warranty games available to buy.
Just like you can directly add up the cost of repairing a 2017 Mustang with the fender and door panel dented VS. buying a brand new Mustang - because you can still buy the new ones.
You **COULD** just drive the Mustang around dented, but because it's so valuable, you will probably get a new door skin, fender and paint.

your analogy is spot on. In most circumstances (especially in pinball) their poor business decisions. Thus the decision is entirely personal/emotional. The question is what is it worth as is. Frankly its anyone's guess, but if your selling it to someone who doesn't want to lose his ass at some point its probably a $4-$5K machine at best assuming u put very little value in your labor. Some people just enjoy projects, and consider them fun and therapeutic, and I completely respect that. If he can sell it for more then more power to him, but the person buying is making an emotional decision and not a business one.

#49 1 year ago

Anyone lowballing these numbers just isn't in touch with the market. I've played MMr. It's great but it's not the original. For me I had to have the original. People want the original still, even if there's demand for the remake, plain and simple. There's only but so many original MM's out there and many won't let them go. There's a price floor on the game because the demand is there. It's a top of game of all time, and despite all the "would take X amount to restore" just owning one still commands a certain price.

#50 1 year ago
Quoted from RVApinballer:

Anyone lowballing these numbers just isn't in touch with the market. I've played MMr. It's great but it's not the original. For me I had to have the original. People want the original still, even if there's demand for the remake, plain and simple. There's only but so many original MM's out there and many won't let them go. There's a price floor on the game because the demand is there. It's a top of game of all time, and despite all the "would take X amount to restore" just owning one still commands a certain price.

What game play differences did you notice between the two?

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 89.99
9,000
Machine - For Sale
Fort Wayne, IN
From: $ 29.00
Boards
KAHR.US Circuits
$ 50.00
$ 10.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Gweem's Mods
From: $ 20.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
There are 89 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside