(Topic ID: 267829)

1986 Black Belt (Karate Fight) - Relay/Lights gone wild

By SkyKing2301

2 years ago



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  • 6 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by SkyKing2301
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#1 2 years ago

***UPDATE: Re-seating all the connectors on the MPU cleared up the problem. I should've pulled them one at a time so help isolate where the issue was actually coming from, but I got overzealous. Marking thread Solved; will post a new thread when I run into my next issue.***

Hey all! I have this super cool Bally Black Belt, one of the infamous Bally 6803 games, that I've been trying to get going. I finally finished all the cosmetics (seriously, I tore it down in December 2018 and just this weekend finished putting it back together), resolved a number of other mechanical issues, and now need to start troubleshooting the hard stuff.

Over the time I've had the game, I've been able to turn it on, it boots up fine, the lights go into attract mode, etc. Even starting a game, it seemed to be behaving fine. However, it's starting to lose its mind.

A while back, the coil for the center saucer started locking on. I disconnected it so it wouldn't kill the coil, vowing to come back to it later. (I didn't notice any transistors LOOKING bad, but I'm going to look at the schematics to pinpoint the right one to take a closer look. Just wanted to get this posted first to deal with the more immediate problem. Read on...)

Then, more recently, the cube relay on the "solenoid expander" board -- the tiny little board under the playfield with the light right next to it (see picture below) -- started acting up, clicking on & off frenetically, basically going nuts. Now, if I start a game, almost all the PF insert lights come on (see video below), which clearly is not supposed to happen!

I'm not really sure where to start here, though clearly I'm suspicious of that relay and/or whatever's triggering it. Any guidance would be appreciated. Note, I have the manual and schematics, so hopefully that'll help us all along the way. I'll do my best to be prompt in my responses.

The video of it going bonkers:

The little relay board:
20200503_163734 (resized).jpg

The schematic for the little board:
20200503_174112 (resized).jpg

Thanks again, looking forward to getting this thing running, especially now that I've got it all put back together. This looks super fun!

#2 2 years ago

I don’t think the solenoid expander relay would affect the lights. However, I believe it may be affected by the lights. For example, if you go into lamp test mode and have them turn on and off, the relay should also click on and off as it is being powered (perhaps that’s the wrong word for it) by the lamp next to it. So, I would concentrate more on figuring out what’s happening with the lamps and hope that solves the relay issue.

As for the lamps, I’m not familiar enough with how to diagnose them to help, but I’ll be interested in hearing thoughts from others more knowledgeable than me.

#3 2 years ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

I don’t think the solenoid expander relay would affect the lights. However, I believe it may be affected by the lights. ... So, I would concentrate more on figuring out what’s happening with the lamps and hope that solves the relay issue.

Even this was helpful! I started by pulling one of the connectors I know connected some lights, no change (except those lights were out). Tried another, same result. I decided then to pull all of the connectors on the MPU and re-seat them all ... and whaddya know, now it's back to normal. (I immediately regretted not going one at a time, just to help indicate where the issue was hiding. Got overzealous there.)

I hate it when it's something so simple...

Interesting footnote, I started playing a game to see how it'd operate. I ended up hitting the ball into the center saucer (whose coil is currently disconnected) ... the solenoid expander relay started clicking (and its light blinking), so it seems it ties into that...

I think maybe I'll re-connect that saucer coil next and see if that's still malfunctioning, and that'll be the next pursuit. I'll mark this one as solved and start a new one if I run into trouble there. (I don't like to change the issue later in a thread -- better for future reference by others if it's just one problem at a time.)

#4 2 years ago

Glad you got it solved.

For future reference, this thread has some information about the solenoid expander relay.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-special-force-solenoid-expander-board

#5 2 years ago

Print headers are one of the main issues on the 6803 boards.
Especialy those with only pins directly to the board (no plastic around the headers).
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally_6803#Replacing_header_pins
I've had three boards at one time, all with bad factory print headers.
I replaced them all and the boards are working perfectly ever since.

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

Print headers are one of the main issues on the 6803 boards.
Especialy those with only pins directly to the board (no plastic around the headers).
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally_6803#Replacing_header_pins
I've had three boards at one time, all with bad factory print headers.
I replaced them all and the boards are working perfectly ever since.

Yeah I'm pretty certain this is the cause of my other light problems -- I have a couple that are misbehaving. When I'd checked the wire harness a while back, I noticed a few wires were loose and touching the connector could make them go on or off. I replaced the harness with a molex type but they're still being problematic, so it's probably a pin problem.

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