(Topic ID: 311471)

1980 Bally Space Invaders US ver. electronics repair

By Ciccoball

2 years ago


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  • 35 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by BigAl56
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    #1 2 years ago

    Greetings. Ciccoball, here...the new guy. I am only slightly experienced with pinball repair many many years ago. i am experienced with electronic repairs being a retired broadcast engineer. PINSIDE looks awesome. I am currently trying to repair (I do not own the machine, I am fixing it for some Special children.) a Bally US version of the 1980 Space Invaders.
    To jump right in... when I power up the A4 LED lights flash in the correct sequence and the audio comes up and it seems ready to play but will not out kick the ball. I have bench tested the out kicker solenoid and it is up to spec. This machine has been monkey'd with a lot. I suppose its previous owners were trying to get permanent Free Plays. The door buttons have power to them but they don't seem to work. I saw a good thread here on Pinside but then I realized that the participants were from the UK. Of course the Input AC is different, but I was wondering if the voltages AFTER the main power supply are the same internationally? Also, at the risk of showing my ignorance, whence comes any Test Point specifications data? My eyes are not what they once were and it is getting harder to read schematics in my old age. Also, what is "Aid?" is it some tool once supplied to Bally Pinball repairpeople in a by-gone era?
    If anyone could help me it would make many young folk very happy. Thank you in advance.
    Can video clips be uploaded to the forum?

    #2 2 years ago
    Quoted from Ciccoball:

    Can video clips be uploaded to the forum?

    If you upload them somewhere else like youtube or vimeo, you can paste the link to it here.

    #3 2 years ago
    Quoted from Ciccoball:

    Of course the Input AC is different, but I was wondering if the voltages AFTER the main power supply are the same internationally?

    Yes, the voltages after the transformer are the same.
    It is only the input voltage to the transformer that changes.

    #4 2 years ago

    Before going further check all the fuses to make sure they are the correct value. Great info here:

    https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern

    There is a 1 amp slo-blow fuse under the PF that controls all the solenoids except the flippers. If good, check for 43VDC at the coil, orange or yellow wire. The coils are daisy chained with 43 VDC.

    #5 2 years ago

    Pinwiki should also tell you how to verify the solenoids would fire if they are wired correctly. You basically ground the tab to verify the solenoid fires. I recommend running the self test first and see if any/all solenoids fire. You should be able to find the manual and schematics on IPDB.org

    #6 2 years ago

    ForceFlow, Zigzagzag, tomdrum & BillC479, Thank you all. This is plenty to start with. Unfortunately, since I don't see the machine on a daily basis I can't get back to you immediately all the time...but sometime I can. I am telling you this because I don't want to appear ungrateful for your time, I am. (voluntarily sharing the information you have gives me hope for humanity.) I will be with the machine day after tomorrow and I have now a good direction to follow.
    One last question though, I am not a Forum guy usually (though folk like you might make me change my habits!). Is it good netiquet to FOLLOW in a forum or is that considered stalking. I know it's cool on FB but as I understand i that's for monetizing, generally.

    #7 2 years ago

    The "Aid" 40 pin connector at the top of the MPU is for a test fixture Bally sold BITD, it can be ignored.

    https://www.ipdb.org/files/2252/Bally_1980_Space_Invaders_Manual_with_schematics.pdf
    PDF version of schematics so you can zoom in and make it easier to read.
    http://www.techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index1.htm
    Also check out this repair guide section 1g, it has all test points for all boards and what they're supposed to read approximately

    If the buttons on the door like start and test don't work, try reseating the plugs on the MPU.

    Is there acid damage on the MPU from battery leakage? If there's a old barrel-style Ni-Cad battery definitely install a remote battery in a holder, a memory capacitor or NVRam (best option but more expensive). I would also consider doing some preventative maintenance if the game hasn't been worked on in a while. Go through each board and reflow solder joints on the header pins, do at least a couple of the ground mods on the driver board, repin the rectifier board (male and female), change the 20a fuse clips on the rectifier board. These things likely will not fix your main problem but they will help prevent problems down the road. If you have the means maybe take the game from the location to your house.

    #8 2 years ago

    Before you get too deep into it, if the game is booting the primary fuses are probably good. There is a 1a SB fuse under the playfield down by the flippers. Check that. If that fuse goes none of the playfield coils except for the flippers will operate.

    #9 2 years ago

    Ciccoball - Following or participating in this forum, from my perspective, is always informative and welcomed. I read all of the new topics, and if one interests me, I'll read the thread and possibly comment. I only comment if I feel it would be helpful. As with any forum there are always going to be a few that abuse and ridicule, but those are far fewer on this website than on others.

    Don't worry about just reading posts - I don't think anyone is going to call you a stalker. The more posts you read, the more you will learn, especially in the tech sections.

    Like suggested, try to get the machine near you so can keep the troubleshooting going when you're in the mood to work on it. SI is an enjoyable game for me, so I really like seeing them restored into usable condition.

    One other thing - this website is full of helpful people who all contribute to the tribal knowledge of pinball and pinball repair. There are no monetary rewards for following/reading posts. (At least none that I have found )

    #10 2 years ago

    Thanks again for your responses. Here is a link to a clip containing the LED sequence.

    I'm not sure whether to count the final muted green flash as "seven" or not.
    i have not received a remote battery replacement kit and extra parts kit, yet. i will remove the battery from the board tomorrow, regardless. The machine should still boot without the battery; only the scores are lost, correct? I will also inspect/reseat the plugs both male & female, for the door buttons on the board. I let y'all know how i make out. You folks are awesome.

    SI_Battery_2021_12_22 (resized).jpgSI_Battery_2021_12_22 (resized).jpg
    #11 2 years ago

    The link to the video tells me its private and I'm not allowed to view it.

    #12 2 years ago

    Cut that 1990 battery off that board ASAP. It has leaked and the acid is eating the board. There are ways to remediate that damage. It also looks like it has leaked onto the cable clamp below (and maybe more).

    https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern

    #13 2 years ago

    The link shoould work now:

    #14 2 years ago

    I am about to remove the board and cut off the battery and try to mitigate the damage. I haven't gotten the repair kit n parts yet. Hopefully by this weekend they will be in hand!

    #15 2 years ago

    Your CPU is booting up in the video. As mentioned earlier, verify the 1 amp SB under the playfield is good.

    After that, run the solenoid test to verify all the solenoids work.

    #16 2 years ago

    Billc479 thanks for your help. I will check the 1amp SB fuse ASAP. However I have removed the board so I could get rid of the battery, ; which I have. As you stated there IS a lot of damage to the board. I'm still waiting for the repair kit with the replacement parts. Looks like they are slated to be here today...just looked...still not here! The 2 large Caps should be here today as well.
    I will be mitigating the battery damage hopefully this weekend although as I am checking, I need to refresh some basic supplies.

    I'll post pics of the process. Here's some.

    battery terminal damage_1 (resized).jpgbattery terminal damage_1 (resized).jpgbattery terminal damage_2 (resized).jpgbattery terminal damage_2 (resized).jpg
    #17 2 years ago

    OK - the closeup was too close, but I am guessing the corrosion has migrated across the board and into some of the components on the MPU board. If so, at a minimum, check the connector J4 that goes to the MPU. Chances are really good those pins inside the connector are corroded as well.

    Make sure you get all of the corrosion off of the board, including under components. If you don't get it all, it seems like the corrosion keeps growing with time, much like pinball machine collecting! Seriously though, make sure you get all the corrosion, or you will be visiting the issue again.

    Keep us informed.

    #18 2 years ago

    you can see in post #10 that the damage has gone way to the right hand side, also up to the 5101 and off to the left.

    cleaning the damage will result in the lifting of the green silkscreen exposing the tin plating and maybe even to the copper depending on the severity.

    it won't look pretty, but when neutralised properly and ideally sealed (imo), after component replacement, your board, when repaired should give you many years of ideally faultless performance.

    that acid damage needs to be stopped.

    #19 2 years ago

    Rickoshay - that's what happens after posting late at night. I forgot about that post. OP should also check all the pins in the connector on the right hand side of the MPU. It looks like they have been attacked, too.

    2 weeks later
    #21 2 years ago

    Good evening all. Sorry I haven't been around lately. i have been dealing with some family stuff. I want to thank you all again for you help. I just bought a new solder sucker as mine is not up to the task.I can't wait to try it.
    I will try to get started on it and keep you abreast with pics and vid and probably a lot of question. Take care, all. I'm off to work on an island all weekend.

    3 months later
    #22 1 year ago

    Not much time has passed since I almost shook hands with my maker. Sorry I've been absent.
    Does anyone have a picture of what the reed switches located on the upper right flipper assembly SHOULD look like on Space Invaders? Someone was at this machine before me and disconnected 3 of the wires and left 'em hanging
    BTW since cleaning, battery replacement and reflowing some (not all) of the MPU module, all the drop targets now work, AND the Out Kicker will now kick out the ball ONCE as soon as the play button is pressed and the music is played but will not do it again without a complete shut down and reboot.
    This machine had been modified by someone to operate without scores and by just pressing the play button. I am not sure what method s/he used.
    I am guessing that it is a logic problem, yes?

    #23 1 year ago

    Ciccoball - welcome back.

    There are no reed switches on my machine. Regardless, I’ve attached pics of my right upper flipper wiring. Let me know if you need more.

    image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
    #24 1 year ago

    just noticing in the pics that the EOS switch looks to have standard switch contacts, not tungsten tipped contacts as it should, and something is amiss with the coil stop, it should be sitting flush against the coil base, it could be the pic but there appears to be quite a gap which would result in the coil moving, sliding forward and backwards?

    #25 1 year ago

    I’ll check the coil tonight. The flipper seems to work fine, so I had not bothered to look at it.

    I’ll also look at the EOS - this machine has had a rough previous life, so it doesn’t surprise me that some stuff is wrong.

    Thanks for the heads up.

    #26 1 year ago

    you're back Ciccoball and that's the main thing, hopefully not worse for wear.

    you mention the machine working but without displays?

    whilst it is booting up, the LED on the mpu going through its flash sequence, do you notice any of displays flickering an orange colour at all?

    also assuming you have gas displays, or are they LED displays? can you post a pic please?

    if you have gas displays they may not be getting the high voltage needed which derives from the rectifier board, fuse F2.......also you may have a solenoid driver board that is fused and that fuse is open.......best to check for the correct voltages.

    #27 1 year ago

    Sorry @Billc479, just an observation is all

    #28 1 year ago

    You all are the best! I meant leaf switches BTW nor reed. This pictures are amazeballs!
    As far as the score displays are concerned, if I can get the machine to play, ball after ball that is all these guys want. If I can fix the original scoring displays without too much effort I will do it. I'm going back there tomorrow and Ill get some pics.
    Thanks all of you.

    #29 1 year ago

    Ciccoball - If you have an orange glow at the bottom of the displays, you know they are getting the high voltage needed. The voltage may be off spec, but that's a different issue.

    If you don't have a glow, check the fuse on the SDB and verify you have the correct voltages. If you have the correct voltages, you likely have a wiring issue. Bad voltages, you have a SDB problem.

    Rikoshay is saying the same thing, and as he suggested, pics can help, but only if you want to get this completely operational. I suspect once you get the machine going, sometime in the future, the owners will decide they want to see scores.

    #30 1 year ago

    Hey @billc479, the diode in you pictures, is it a 4148? I know its tough to tell when it is installed and at the wacky angle such as is the underside of the slanted play field, but I think the resolution of your camera can catch the markings if you could focus on it specifically, DO you think you could capture and post it? It looks like it but when I zoom in the diode gets blurry. I can't seem to find its specs in the schematics. But it is getting harder for me to see these days.

    #31 1 year ago

    Ciccoball - Yes, its a 4148. I could not get a good pic. Per the schematics, the switch diodes are supposed to be 1N4148, and the coil diodes are supposed to be 1N4004.

    Like I mentioned to Rikoshay, this machine has had a hard past life. I'm trying to figure out what to do with the loose coil - the problem (I think) is the wrong coil stop is being used. It's a lot thinner compared to the left flipper.

    1 week later
    #32 1 year ago

    So Billc479, I installed the 4148 and the flipper is energized but instead of one solid flip, it vibrates back and forth - which looks cool, but can't be right. any suggestions?
    In your last post you mentioned "this machine," do you mean a machine on which you are working? I'll tell you the one I'm working on has had it rough, too! The soldering repair is unbelievable.

    I checked your profile. You and your wife have 60 machines!? WOW AWESOME!

    #33 1 year ago

    I was referring to my SI. It’s working, but every time I go under the hood, I find another questionable repair.

    We have that many machines because desire drives you to stupidity. There were several titles in a bunch of machines in an operators old barn that I wanted, the family said it was all or nothing, so I (we) got them all.

    As far as your problem goes, check to make sure your end of stroke switch (Es?) are gapped correctly and making solid contact.

    If you’re not sure, while flipper is fluttering, push a blade on the EOS switch and see if it stops.

    #34 1 year ago

    Billc479, you could start a Pinball museum! Are they all in at least semi working condition or were they all kaput?
    I'll try your EOS suggestion

    #35 1 year ago
    Quoted from Ciccoball:

    I installed the 4148 and the flipper is energized but instead of one solid flip, it vibrates back and forth - which looks cool, but can't be right. any suggestions?

    That's caused by an open or miswired flipper holding coil. look carefully at the flipper coil and make sure the thin wires from the holding are not broken.

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