(Topic ID: 343524)

1979 Williams Flash Restoration

By Mathazar

10 months ago


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  • 212 posts
  • 31 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by RTS
  • Topic is favorited by 20 Pinsiders

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There are 212 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 5.
#201 3 months ago
Quoted from adamtoth:

The upper left magnetic rollover only registers sometimes when the ball goes across it. It seems if there is any slight hop off the rail as the ball flies by from the shooter lane, that it doesn’t register, even though it seems like it passes right over the top.

I had (have) a similar problem. I mitigated most of it by making sure there's enough clear removed from the insert so that the button rests as flat as it possible can to eliminate a ramp effect into the ball hopping over the MRS (and therefore not registering). Also the position of the MRS really matters...I experimented with several positions until I found one that registers most of the time.

While doing the above, I noticed something I never really noticed before. At first, I thought maybe it was a CPR repro error but the dimensions are the same on my OEM playfield. There is a lot of playfield space between the outer ball guide and the star rollover. If the ball travels up through that space (or even over the very outer edges of the star rollover), the MRS won't register. And I think that's ok....even with the original leaf switch for the star rollover, it wouldn't trigger unless the ball travels directly over the star button.

IMG_6239a (resized).jpgIMG_6239a (resized).jpg

In my test gameplay, I'd say those two star rollovers on the left register about 75% of the time. And the 25% they don't, I usually notice that the ball actually went up that lane in the space to the right. I'm learning to live with it and let it go, lol.

Quoted from adamtoth:

I find the saucer shot really hard, and only accessible on the tip of the left flipper.

I've found the same. Sometimes it's a bit easier to make if you have the right flipper raised (engaged) when you make that tip-of-the-flipper shot attempt. A little bit more margin for error for the ball to enter that alley up to the saucer. Kinda like making the Away Team shot on the Stern Star Trek pin.

Quoted from adamtoth:

Right flipper shots are limited because you’ll end up just hitting the activated upper right flipper which blocks access to the upper playfield when activated.

I've accidently made the right flipper backup shot into the saucer a few times....I'm trying to figure out the geometry and learn how to do it on purpose!

Quoted from adamtoth:

I haven’t had any problems with the NMP magnets and superglue. I used the heavy duty loctite ultragel in the blue/black bottle.

I may have to try that loctite ultragel myself. I had ANOTHER magnet come off today....that makes 6 times now, and this one was one that I had re-glued with epoxy. I'm also going to experiment with velcro and see if that works (and for how long). Part of me wonders....I did put in upgraded 1993-era Williams flipper assemblies. Nice and strong. I'm wondering if maybe they're too strong and hitting the targets harder than the NMP magnet design was tested on.

I'll report back on the velcro experiment, going to try that this weekend.

#202 3 months ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

I'll report back on the velcro experiment, going to try that this weekend.

So far, so good. Pack of self-adhesive 0.39" velcro dots arrived this morning:
IMG_6371 (resized).jpgIMG_6371 (resized).jpg

Of course the magnet sits taller on the target now, but still plenty of clearance for the NMP PCB:
IMG_6370 (resized).jpgIMG_6370 (resized).jpg

Just played a couple quick games and it's working. It looks kinda goofy but who cares if it works and no one sees it.

Between my son and I, we'll probably put in 50+ games this weekend and I'll get an idea of the endurance potential. I picked up some Loctite Ultra Gel in the blue and black bottle as a backup.

#203 3 months ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

I had (have) a similar problem. I mitigated most of it by making sure there's enough clear removed from the insert so that the button rests as flat as it possible can to eliminate a ramp effect into the ball hopping over the MRS (and therefore not registering). Also the position of the MRS really matters...I experimented with several positions until I found one that registers most of the time.
While doing the above, I noticed something I never really noticed before. At first, I thought maybe it was a CPR repro error but the dimensions are the same on my OEM playfield. There is a lot of playfield space between the outer ball guide and the star rollover. If the ball travels up through that space (or even over the very outer edges of the star rollover), the MRS won't register. And I think that's ok....even with the original leaf switch for the star rollover, it wouldn't trigger unless the ball travels directly over the star button.
[quoted image]
In my test gameplay, I'd say those two star rollovers on the left register about 75% of the time. And the 25% they don't, I usually notice that the ball actually went up that lane in the space to the right. I'm learning to live with it and let it go, lol.

I've found the same. Sometimes it's a bit easier to make if you have the right flipper raised (engaged) when you make that tip-of-the-flipper shot attempt. A little bit more margin for error for the ball to enter that alley up to the saucer. Kinda like making the Away Team shot on the Stern Star Trek pin.

I've accidently made the right flipper backup shot into the saucer a few times....I'm trying to figure out the geometry and learn how to do it on purpose!

I may have to try that loctite ultragel myself. I had ANOTHER magnet come off today....that makes 6 times now, and this one was one that I had re-glued with epoxy. I'm also going to experiment with velcro and see if that works (and for how long). Part of me wonders....I did put in upgraded 1993-era Williams flipper assemblies. Nice and strong. I'm wondering if maybe they're too strong and hitting the targets harder than the NMP magnet design was tested on.
I'll report back on the velcro experiment, going to try that this weekend.

You got it - we've just recently included a visualization in the instructions to help folks position their MRS...position is everything...the key is observing ball travel and lining that up in the path of the visible magnet...the insert is 6mm thick...the MRS can detect up to 9-10mm...so the margin is slim - I wish we could get it more sensitive - but that's almost impossible in such a small form-factor required for the application...

For your NMP - as I suggested earlier, magnets (neodymium) don't hold well with most glues/epoxy's....you should use 3M double sided sticky tape - same stuff we put on the MRS - same stuff they use for cell-phone/tablet glass....

#204 3 months ago

OK - I think I'm ready to call this one done! So anxious to move on to my next projects: annual maintenance (and a bit of a refresh) of two restorations I did a few years ago - Mata Hari and Eight Ball Deluxe. Then the big one - full restoration of my STTNG. I'll be starting that in late summer after I get my playfield back from being re-cleared by Ron Kruzman.

I got about 50 games of Flash in this weekend and she's working well. I'll be taking it to Rocky Mountain Pinball Showdown later this year (date TBD, presumably this Fall). Here's a recap of restoration highlights:

- CPR Playfield
- CPR Backglass
- CPR Plastics
- LEDs
- All PCBs repaired, re-capped and bullet-proofed
- Fuse protection added for bridge rectifiers
- Extensively damaged cabinet repaired and repainted
- Pinball Pimp cabinet stencils
- New ground braiding run throughout the cabinet
- New side rails
- New legs and levelers
- New speaker with custom "Flash" logo decal
- New playfield rails by Ibis
- Reproduction cabinet tech labels
- Reproduction apron and shooter gauge decals
- Custom apron card set
- New drop targets and decals
- New spinner decal
- New cabinet credit and flipper buttons
- Coin door disassembled, cleaned/polished, and rebuilt with new pricing plates. Working coin mechs!
- Drop target assembly PCBs converted to NMP boards with magnetic sensors
- Custom pop bumper caps
- New rubbers
- MRS for star rollovers
- Rollover leaf switches converted to microswitches
- All OEM metal cleaned and polished
- Wire harness thoroughly cleaned
- Molex connectors added to drop target assemblies for quick removal/reinsertion when repair is needed

And I didn't realize till I took these photos that I forgot to replace the defective NVRAM module on the MPU. I popped in some new AA's temporarily until I order another NVRAM for the 5101 socket.

Some glamour shots:

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#205 3 months ago

Here's my recording rig - going to leave this set up for a few days and capture some gameplay:
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First test video, two games (260K and 433K). This is a difficult game to roll on a 3-ball setting, at least for me. The outlanes are really unforgiving (I have the outlane posts in the "middle" default position). I've rolled it a couple of times in the past but not since I restored this particular game. Got to 900K once a couple of weeks ago.

#206 3 months ago

As irritating as some will say the sound is on this game, it was literally the sound track to my childhood! LOVED this game as a kid! Nice job on the restore, crazy nice looking!

1 week later
#208 3 months ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

There is a lot of playfield space between the outer ball guide and the star rollover. If the ball travels up through that space (or even over the very outer edges of the star rollover), the MRS won't register. And I think that's ok

I don't think it's really okay. The switch can register 100% accurately with a little more effort.

I noticed the same space issue when I recently swapped in an MRS switch to replace my original leaf blade star rollover switch on a CPR pf for EBD.

At first the MRS was no better than the original switch, accurately registering 80-90% of the orbit shots. I was really disappointed. Why upgrade if it still misses sometimes?

I spent a bit of time really tweaking the position, until I got it right. It's 100% accurate now. I cut off the circular tab on the MRS (the part that is meant to surround the white star plastic piece underneath that pushes the blade) in order to achieve the ideal location that will always register the ball as it passes at any speed or any location of the lane.

The switch is held in place by tension as it just barely squeezes in the hole.

An added benefit with the MRS is that a really slow ball can no longer can get stuck on the protruding star. The start rollover bump is closer to flush now, preventing the rare but occasional hang-up.

#209 3 months ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

If the ball travels up through that space (or even over the very outer edges of the star rollover), the MRS won't register. And I think that's ok

Quoted from RTS:

I don't think it's really okay. The switch can register 100% accurately with a little more effort.

Let me clarify and add another picture - when the ball travels over the rollover button, the MRS registers 100% of the time. If the ball travels up the right side of that alley, to the right of the rollover button, the MRS doesn't register. And I wouldn't expect it to. The original leaf switch wouldn't register, either. How could it if the ball doesn't travel over the rollover button to push the star stem down on to the leaf?

In my recent gameplay, the ball is traveling up that open space to the right of the star rollover about 5% to 10% of the time. I've had my recording rig set up on Flash for the last couple of weeks and have gone back to look at shots that didn't register and I see the ball NOT going over the star rollover in those instances. I'm fine with that.
IMG_6408 (resized).jpgIMG_6408 (resized).jpg

Sonic - I'm 100+ games in after the last MRS replacement and all 5 star rollovers continue to work rock solid. Thanks!

#210 3 months ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Let me clarify and add another picture - when the ball travels over the rollover button, the MRS registers 100% of the time. If the ball travels up the right side of that alley, to the right of the rollover button, the MRS doesn't register. And I wouldn't expect it to. The original leaf switch wouldn't register, either. How could it if the ball doesn't travel over the rollover button to push the star stem down on to the leaf?

I understand exactly what you're saying.

The original leaf switch must have physical contact with the ball pushing down on the plastic star rollover to activate, so if it doesn't make contact with the plastic star, it won't register.

But the MRS doesn't need physical contact. You just need to angle and adjust its proximity to where the ball rolls. I was able to get it to register even in that dead zone to the side of the star rollover where it doesn't make contact

It took some time until I found the sweet spot. And as I said, I had to remove the loop piece on the MRS to achieve that spot.

It took a little trial and error, but it eventually worked when you tweak it. The real value of the MRS is it will never miss, whereas the leaf will absolutely fail in the dead zone.

#211 3 months ago

I get what you're saying as well and I could adjust the MRS same as you so the dead spot on the playfield registers. I'm choosing not to knowing that's the way the game played (scored) originally.

Now if I ever miss my personal best (1,833,400) by a few thousand and I had a couple of shots up that alley to the right of star and they didn't score, I reserve the right to change my mind and recalibrate.

#212 3 months ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

I get what you're saying as well and I could adjust the MRS same as you so the dead spot on the playfield registers. I'm choosing not to knowing that's the way the game played (scored) originally.
Now if I ever miss my personal best (1,833,400) by a few thousand and I had a couple of shots up that alley to the right of star and they didn't score, I reserve the right to change my mind and recalibrate.

Ah, gotcha. All good. I couldn't be as tolerant.

Nothing bugs me more than making the required shot and not getting credit. I just see it as a flaky switch.

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