(Topic ID: 317308)

1979 Stern Magic Right Flipper Dimming Lights / Blowing Fuse

By Rebelkustoms

1 year ago


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  • Magic Stern Electronics, 1979

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#1 1 year ago

I have been working through some overdue problems on my Stern Magic. After the machine was moved recently I was having issues with the right flipper. Not working, then being weak. Separate but semi related i decided to replace the voltage rectifier because it was completely toasted. I re soldered all the connections to the flipper coil and checked the coil against the other side and it seemed ok. New rectifier board is in and everything else is working a lot better but it did not improve my situation with the right flipper.

The flipper does work but it is a but it is annoyingly weak (60% of the other flippers power). It also visibly dims the lights in the machine when pressed. I worked for a long time trying to adjust it different ways and adjust the EOS switch but to no avail. The very last time I adjusted it I was working it trying to watch it swing and return and it blew the F4 5 amp. Not sure what the problem could be I have repinned and replaced all the connectors to the rectifier. Not sure if its in the solenoid driver board or what. Thanks in advance for any help!

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#2 1 year ago

It's normal for the flippers to make the lights flicker on these Ballys but if you're saying the right one causes more of a dimming than the left then that's a problem. That EOS switch on the flipper looks original, have you rebuilt the flippers?

#3 1 year ago

Flippers are rebuilt. Full kit if I remember correctly. The right definitely pulls down the light more than the left. The left barely dims them at all.

#4 1 year ago

If the EOS switch looks black and/or pitted try filing it, or replace it. Check the solder joints and pins on driver board J2
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#5 1 year ago

I checked voltage at the connector on J2 both flippers got 43 V coming out at the board. Down the line they both have 44 V at the Flipper Switches. With the Nuetral probe on the center lug both coils test .3 ohms left to center and 3.0 ohms right lug to center.

I reseated the connectors, readjusted the EOS switch and gave both sides a good cleaning. Left flipper is still strong and the right one is still just as weak. Its a bunch of work but I am almost tempted to swap the left coil over and see if its a coil issue?

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from Rebelkustoms:

I checked voltage at the connector on J2 both flippers got 43 V coming out at the board. Down the line they both have 44 V at the Flipper Switches. With the Nuetral probe on the center lug both coils test .3 ohms left to center and 3.0 ohms right lug to center.
I reseated the connectors, readjusted the EOS switch and gave both sides a good cleaning. Left flipper is still strong and the right one is still just as weak. Its a bunch of work but I am almost tempted to swap the left coil over and see if its a coil issue?

I would pull the solenoid driver board and check for broken solder joints on the J2 header pins. Yeah changing coils is a PITA but might give you a better idea of your problem. Did you change both flipper coils or just the one on the right? Ensure you wired it properly

#7 1 year ago

Here is a back and front of of the board as well as one with the connector so you can see which wires go where. I think when I started having this problem I took this board off and reflowed all the pins on it. They don't look terrible to me but idk maybe I can clean the solder off and do it again see if it helps. I have pins and connectors to rebuild them I just haven't yet I wanted to fix one problem at a time.

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#8 1 year ago

Have noticed something else also. If I put my hand or finger in front of each flipper while operating it. The Left (good flipper) will snap and push it away. The right (weak one) will buzz mid stroke and dim the lights when it hits resistance from my hand.

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from Rebelkustoms:

Have noticed something else also. If I put my hand or finger in front of each flipper while operating it. The Left (good flipper) will snap and push it away. The right (weak one) will buzz mid stroke and dim the lights when it hits resistance from my hand.

I would take apart that flipper assembly and make sure you did the rebuild correctly, could also be a faulty coil

#10 1 year ago

Check the solder joints at the flipper relay and the contact in the flipper relay.

Also noticed in the 2nd pic that the bakelite piece that joins to the plunger isn't sitting against the bracket, meaning the spring has lost tension and/or the mechanical movement of the assembly isn't free.

Are you able to pull on the flipper bat from the top of the playfield and notice some slight 'play', movement up and down? This is a must.

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from Rikoshay:

Check the solder joints at the flipper relay and the contact in the flipper relay.
Also noticed in the 2nd pic that the bakelite piece that joins to the plunger isn't sitting against the bracket, meaning the spring has lost tension and/or the mechanical movement of the assembly isn't free.
Are you able to pull on the flipper bat from the top of the playfield and notice some slight 'play', movement up and down? This is a must.

Interesting. I have been kind of plagued by this problem and no one has ever mentioned the relay. I am guessing that is the relay incased in plastic on the SDB. I don't know much about those but I can reflow the pins to it. Is there a way to get inside it and check that little relay?

As far as the bakelite and the play in the motion. You are correct the working flipper is kind of snapped back in a pocket with that bakelite against the bracket at rest. In the midst of trying to adjust this weak flipper every which way I have adjusted it up and down on the flipper axle giving different play there. I also adjusted back and forth so the flipper sits more forward and backward at rest on the playfield if that makes any sense. None of this helped but its easy to try again. Let me know what to look for on that relay and I will try that.

I will also spend the time to switch the working coil over to the right side and see if that helps. If that doesn't work I may move on to rebuilding the connectors and pins on J2 to see if that helps.

#12 1 year ago

Yes the flipper relay is on the solenoid driver board as you indicated.
It's the contacts in the relay, fixed and moving that are of interest, you should clearly hear your relay pulling in and releasing on power up.
I personally have found removing the relay cover to be difficult, usually resulting in breaking one of the latching pieces that are really narrow, and being so old they don't seem to have much 'give'. But it is possible. You will notice on the short faces of the clear cover that there are two small lugs locking into the cover on the base. So to remove, the cover needs to lift over the tabs.
Notice in your second last pic that just shows the relay, it appears to have had the cover removed, or possibly attempted to be removed as the clear cover at the base I mentioned looks to have a crack in it.
But that may not be necessary as you can usually get a good indication of the condition of the contacts through the cover.

Just and observation and suggestion, from looking at the last pic, when reflowing and soldering in new header pins, whilst adding solder and watching it melt/mix in with the original solder, keep your soldering iron tip on the pin slowing lifting the soldering iron tip upwards so as to draw the solder up, and surrounding the pin, not just at the base. The more you do the easier it gets.
I'm not suggesting to add heaps of solder, but you will get the same affect covering the whole pin with minimal solder.
Some of the solder on the pins has taken/been applied well, but look at the ones that 'appear' to not have got heat for long enough and the solder has formed a sort of dome around the pins meaning it hasn't taken to the pin at that particular point.
And again this is just a suggestion and I'm not saying it's a must to do.

1 week later
#13 1 year ago

Ugh....back on this one and here is where I am now.
Since last I left off I took the Solenoid Driver Board home and checked the flipper relay. I didn't remove the cover but I did desolder and resolder it to the board. Reinstalled and no change. Still a lazy right flipper.

I decided to go ahead and take the left flipper coil I know is good and swap it to the right flipper. That did not change anything either. So good to know it is definitely not a coil issue. When switching those coils I cleaned the EOS switches and checked them manually for operation. They were pretty burned and the pads are a bit screwed so I will throw those on my next parts order.

After swapping coils I entertained the thought I may have connector pin issues. So I went through and repinned J1 and J2 at the SDB and repinned J1 connector at the new Voltage rectifier. Though the pins are much tighter this didn't fix the problem either.

Here is what I did find out from all this trial and error this go around: Coils are both good and when fiddling around I did get full power back to the flipper a few times then it would drop out after a game or a reset. But I do know this the Right flipper is definitely buzzing and dimming the lights and the left doesn't. The right will blow a fuse if you try to hold a ball.
So from this I'm thinking the right is staying fully energized and not turning on the hold for whatever reason. It is definitely opening the EOS switch from what I can see. Is there anything else that can keep it from dropping out the high voltage?

#14 1 year ago

the EOS may be opening, but is it actually working?

with one wire removed from the coil, put your meter to the the removed wire and the other EOS switch wire on the coil and are you getting close to zero ohms/continuity with the switch closed?

also what are the windings resistances? the thin wire winding and the thick wire winding.

can you post pics of your wire connections to the flipper coils, showing the diodes?

#15 1 year ago

I tested the EOS with the wire off. It reads 0.1 or 0.0 closed and OL when open.

The windings I couldn't get a read on. I tried them every which way. Tried both left and right flipper as well as another coil I have for this machine got no reading. Can you test these with the diodes in place?
I don't really want to assume things are good but I just swapped the left and right coils in the last post and the problem was still isolated to the right side so I am pretty sure the coils are good since both worked fine when on the left.

I also dropped a pic of the wiring for you.

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#16 1 year ago

not that it's related, but looking at the second pic posted, the insulation wire on a white/grey? seems be be wearing away on the flipper bracket?

just for safety i'd undo the philips head screw and adjust that cable gland so the wires are away from the flipper bracket.

hard to tell from the latest pic, but does that EOS switch have good connection between the contacts, and are they tungsten tipped contacts? It could just be the pic but they look to be standard switch contacts? and they don't look to be making very good contact nor in the best shape. I read you tested them, but it only takes the smallest amount of surface area to get a good reading, but these contacts are transferring a fair bit of current and the larger the contact area the better.

to measure the resistance of the windings you need to put a piece of paper between the EOS contacts and remove the far right single orange wire from the coil. Yes you can test with diodes in place, you just need to remove any 'circuit' so the meter is measuring the windings only.

no offence, but maybe remove the wires, strip back some insulation on each, twist together the rh side ones, tin the wires (adding some solder) then re-attach to the coil lugs, for each wire do the same. It will ensure better connection and remove any stray wires.

#17 1 year ago

I will check those tight wires. Not sure why that runs so tightly along the bracket but I will inspect the wires.

I'm going to just go ahead and order new EOS switches tomorrow so I will report back when they come in. I cleaned and filed them a bit but they were pretty beaten. They are cheap enough and I will order some extras as well since they are consumable.

As far as the solder goes I went and rebraided and tinned those wires really well. Then when I tried out the switching of the flipper coils it got all ratty again. Lol I will redo all that when I put in the EOS switches.

Be back soon.

#18 1 year ago

Man this thing is frustrating me to no end. Got a brand new EOS switch and tossed it on and I am still getting the same result. It is not kicking full power and it is Buzzing and Dimming the Lights Badly. Also after activating the coil for a minute or two this thing get HOT I mean Really Hot, so I just shut it off. I filmed a video of it. First showing the normal operation of the left flipper from underneath the playfield then the right. Volume Up you can hear the buzz. Let me know what you think. Any help is appreciated. At this point I am out of ideas.

#19 1 year ago

i did read back a bit about your voltage readings, but what voltage do you have at the flipper coils? about 43VDC?

it doesn't appear to 'snap' in hard.

something i read recently and that's if i got it correct.......that it may be the coil/s, i get it adds up dollar wise but but any other brand than PINCOIL.

and not a big deal, but that gap of the EOS when fully open, ideally wants to be at least 1/8 th of an inch (3.2mm).

it sounds like the flip/hit winding isn't working and it's the hold winding/ like an issue with the winding of the coil/s ? Maybe.

#20 1 year ago

In your video, I don't see the EOS switch sparking when it opens which it should.
You need to sort out getting resistance readings of the flipper coil.
The coil wrapper tells you the winding resistances - 3.2 ohms for the primary thrust winding, 362 ohms for the secondary hold winding (when the EOS switch is open).

BTW, the crank/pawl position needs to be raised on the flipper bat axis, it could be causing the metal plunger to go into the coil on an angle which may make it sometimes bind from friction (I noticed you had to manually release the flipper on your last flip in the video because it got stuck).
Typically the crank to bushing gap should be about the thickness of a credit card.

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#21 1 year ago
Quoted from Rikoshay:

i did read back a bit about your voltage readings, but what voltage do you have at the flipper coils? about 43VDC?
it doesn't appear to 'snap' in hard.
something i read recently and that's if i got it correct.......that it may be the coil/s, i get it adds up dollar wise but but any other brand than PINCOIL.
and not a big deal, but that gap of the EOS when fully open, ideally wants to be at least 1/8 th of an inch (3.2mm).
it sounds like the flip/hit winding isn't working and it's the hold winding/ like an issue with the winding of the coil/s ? Maybe.

Rebuilding these were probably the first work I had ever done on a machine years ago. So I kinda got whatever was suggested to me.

I'm heading back over to the machine today and will figure out testing resistance of the windings but the thing that throws me is that I have already swapped coils from left flipper to right. I swapped in a known "Good Coil" from the working left flipper to the bad right one and the right flipper is still having these issues. I feel like it must be up stream of the coil and EOS switch.?

#22 1 year ago
Quoted from Rebelkustoms:

I feel like it must be up stream of the coil and EOS switch.?

When you rotate the flipper bat by hand, does it rotate freely or is there resistance? And compared to the good flipper?

When you put something between the EOS switch so it's open, what happens when you press the flipper button? It might buzz a little as it struggles with low power to move the flipper mech. If you then rotate the flipper bat while still holding the flipper button, the flipper should stay up at full rotation.

5 months later
#23 1 year ago

I know this has sat dormant for a long time but hey, life gets busy. Got some time off and decided to just rip out absolutely everything on the flipper I was having problems with and replace it. I ordered the Early Stern rebuild kit (pictured) from Pinball Life. I replaced coil, sleeve, flipper bushing, flipper bat, EOS switch, plunger, spring, linkage, etc. I FINALLY have right flipper back to full power. I am stoked to be able actually play the game again. Not sure what went on. I think I initially had an electrical issue and in fooling with the coil and soldering and unsoldering it I ended up getting all those old parts out of whack and I may have been dealing with some all over the place mechanical binding and misalignment. Not a fan of throwing parts at something but a fresh start on this definitely helped it. I do have 1 question before I mark this one solved.

After installing the new rebuild kit I have notice the flipper has a good hard return...BUT if you notice the new linkage has a nylon link with a rounded end vs. the old bakelite with a flat back (Pictured in previous post above). When the newly rebuilt flipper returns and the link hit the stop on the bracket the rounded edge link makes the flipper bounce instead of returning and stopping dead. Not a deal breaker but a little bit of an annoyance. I was wondering if anyone has maybe filed a flat edge onto one of those links or put something on the metal bracket to deaden the return and make it not bounce?? I can post a video if it helps.

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#24 1 year ago

you did put the springs in over the plunger?

just a thought, as your flipper crank is different you have the option of modifying it a little to incorporate the add on of an outer return spring.

one 'pointy' section has the stud to open the EOS, you could use the other side to attach a spring to and a ground tab terminal at the EOS switch mounting?

#25 1 year ago

Hmm yea , I do get what you are saying. Yes the spring is over the plunger and the tighter coiled end of it is on the link side. I would have to get back over to where the game is to give it a look and see if another spring could be mounted somewhere to help. I was wondering if it is the round edge that makes it bounce off the bracket or if it is the material (nylon vs. bakelite) that makes it bounce off. I will give it another good once over when I start on the score displays. and try to get an idea of why it does that.

#26 1 year ago

I have used those same kits with no issue of the flipper bouncing.

you could also try stretching the spring to give more resistance and help with the return, but this 'may' have an adverse effect on the pulling in of the plunger?

did this happen before? you could use your original bakelite links if they are okay?

you did offer to post a video of the bouncing effect, I'd be keen to see it.

#27 1 year ago

Here is the videos of the top of the playfield showing flipper bounce and the underneath showing the link bouncing off the bracket. If you watch the right flipper bounces while the left will return and stop dead. I can use the OG bakelite as the link but I dont think they are the right length to insert into this new setup so it may cause some more problems than it is worth. I made the latter video go slow motion a few seconds in which looks damn cool and gives you a goode idea of the action of that plunger and link.

#28 1 year ago

Factory aligned the flippers so the bats rested against the short pins coming out of the playfield. Aligning the flippers to be straight with the return lanes isn't how they're meant to be on these classic Sterns.

#29 1 year ago

interesting videos to watch, thanks for posting.

this may seem ridiculous, but can you try and compress both the springs between your fingers and feel if they are the same, it's not the correct way of doing it but it should give you an idea if they are the same. With so many compression springs available it's unlikely but possible one is softer than the other?

and just for safety sake I'd move the diode away from the LH flipper plate, it looks like it's touching.

#30 1 year ago

Im thinking of just pulling that spring out a bit to see if a little stiffer spring may deaden the return without dragging down the power of the flipper.

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