1979 Gottlieb Hulk - Sound Issue

(Topic ID: 172038)

1979 Gottlieb Hulk - Sound Issue


By Zero-One

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 73 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Zero-One
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 73 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 2 years ago

First Pin, new to the hobby, new to the board. Thanks for having me.

1979 Hulk...the sound will drop out after playing a couple games. If I start a new game it will work again however after a ball or two it quits again.

I have not done much checking into it yet, I figured this was a good excuse to start using the board and getting to know folks.

Thanks in advance.

#2 2 years ago

Check the sound board and driver board for cracked solder joints.

Make sure the edge connectors are clean--they should be shiny, not dull (use a pink rubber eraser to clean them)

#3 2 years ago

I would start with the edge connectors. With the power off, pull of the connector to the sound pcb and reseat it (pull it off, put it back on) and see if that clears it up. If not, reseat the other end of that cable in the driver board in the back box. If that doesn't work, pull the sound board and look for cold solder joints, then look at the driver board for cold solder. When the boards are out, you can 'eraser' the fingers clean to improve the connection.

#4 2 years ago

Ok, got it. Thanks guys. I will check it out and let you know what I found. I do appreciate it!!

#5 2 years ago

Just what they said. Always clean or preferably replace connectors on these old gottliebs. I'm in Lincoln, so we'll have to play pinball sometime. Welcome to pinside and the hobby. Let us know what you find out.

#6 2 years ago

Thanks Konghusker for the warm welcome. Yeah, the wife and I would love an excuse to road trip to Lincoln sometime. Looks like you have some nice machines in your collection.
I cleaned the terminals on the sound board and my wife and daughter are playing now....seems to be working.
You said to replace the connector...is there a good source for parts?

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from Zero-One:

You said to replace the connector...is there a good source for parts?

He means repin the connectors. You can usually reuse the plastic housings.

If the game is working fine, you may not need to do that, but it can be a source of issues of you are having problems.

#8 2 years ago

I see. Thanks for the clarification ForceFlow. There is a wire that pulled out of another connector that controls the button to add credits that I need to re-pin also. I work at a Chevrolet dealer and was going to take the harness to the shop to see if we have the correct terminal in our kit.

#9 2 years ago

If you don't have the same pins, then look at pinball resource and also Marco specialties online. Both are great resources gottlieb machines. Glad you got it working

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from konghusker:

If you don't have the same pins, then look at pinball resource and also Marco specialties online. Both are great resources gottlieb machines. Glad you got it working

I usually head for greatplainselectronics.com, bigdaddy-enterprises.com, mouser.com, digikey.com, and a few other places for connectors, pins, and electronics components. Marco & PBR tend to be more expensive when it comes to components.

#11 2 years ago
Quoted from Zero-One:

I see. Thanks for the clarification ForceFlow. There is a wire that pulled out of another connector that controls the button to add credits that I need to re-pin also. I work at a Chevrolet dealer and was going to take the harness to the shop to see if we have the correct terminal in our kit.

I'm guessing what you're looking for might be a quick disconnect terminal like these:

pasted_image (resized).png

There's a brass or phosphor bronze quick disconnect terminal that is a good match to the original terminals--I'll try to grab the part number later tonight.

Using an automotive connector with a bright color on the insulation just looks odd to me in an older game.

#12 2 years ago

^good to know these other dealers. Thanks

#13 2 years ago

Actually I will probably just grab a few of the original ones to have on hand. I agree with you that keeping it more original in look is more appealing for sure.
Oh and thank you for the additional web sites for parts! Very cool!

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#14 2 years ago

Good grief sorry for the huge picture. Im not sure how to re-size it.

#15 2 years ago

Be aware that the repinning is easily a couple of hours, even with the proper tools. Much, much longer if you don't have the proper tools.

Also, I had an issue repinning our Solar Ride where the extractor tool didn't fit the original housings. I just wound up ordering replacement housings for those I hadn't managed to repin the hard way, cut the original connectors off and stripped, pinned and seated into the new housings. Marco Specialties actually carries most of them, although in two cases I had to order one position larger than required, and cut out a key in each one (still keyed though), as they didn't have the exact size in stock. The extractor does fit the new housings, interestingly enough, so I suspect the specification changed slightly, or the original housings had some dimensional shift.

Here's the link. You want the single sided, .156 inch types. http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/ELEC-CON?S_CAT2=GOTTLIEB

#16 2 years ago

Thank you or the information! Yeah it sounds like working on these is similar to working on cars lol. We have the same issue when trying to re-pin a connector on a vehicle. The extractor tool seems a bit to large. I usually take a paperclip and file the end of it and it slips right in. Its a little more flimsy than you may want but it works just fine.

#17 2 years ago

I wanted a hulk for a while. Probably still would get one someday. It's a beautiful Machine. We need pics of this pin.

#18 2 years ago

My reasoning for wanting Hulk was not for the exciting game play lol but because of the theme. Ive been an Incredible Hulk fan since I was little and recently even got to meet Lou Ferigno and got an autograph on a cool poster. After reading reviews on this forum I almost passed on this machine because it seemed to be ranked pretty low on the "fun" scale lol, however when I found one at a reasonable price and it was located near where I was traveling for a visit to the In-Laws....well....it made sence to me. I love the artwork on the machine and honestly with the front leg adjusters cranked up, the game play is not terrible. I love this machine and am grateful to Dave for the good deal.

Here are a couple Pics. Now dont laugh, I only have one machine. I dont have the budget to compete with the big time collectors around here lol.

Hulk2 (resized).JPG

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#19 2 years ago

No laughing man. I seriously want a hulk for the same reasons. I had a want ad for one at beginning of this year. Eventually decided against it per my wife's opinion(lol) but now I want one again. I think it's one of the best looking pins along with gottlieb spiderman. Gameplay is a little slow, but with multiple players competing for score, it's a blast. Looks great man. Also, I started with only one a few years ago with a black hole. I love the old gottliebs. Beautiful game, welcome to the hobby, and we'll have to meet up sometime. Congrats on getting hulk.

#20 2 years ago

Thank you for the kind words. It still amazes me how these boards can bring good people together that would otherwise never meet. I have been a Wacky Packages collector for years and have the most extensive 1979-1980 reissue collection in the hobby and through that I have meet some very dear friends. If i can find an appropriate thread for it I will post pics of my collection.

#21 2 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

I'm guessing what you're looking for might be a quick disconnect terminal like these:

There's a brass or phosphor bronze quick disconnect terminal that is a good match to the original terminals--I'll try to grab the part number later tonight.
Using an automotive connector with a bright color on the insulation just looks odd to me in an older game.

Whoops, It seems I got distracted and forgot to follow-up earlier, so here it goes:

quick disconnect terminal .205" 18-22awg Part# 42198-1

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/42198-1/A111180CT-ND/4142566

This is what will match the quick disconnect terminals in a system 1 game.

#22 2 years ago

Thanks for the information.

I have cleaned all of the edge connectors and terminals but the sound still drops out. It does come back right away if you press the button and start a new game. I dont think its a connection issue if starting a new game corrects it.

#23 2 years ago
Quoted from Zero-One:

I have cleaned all of the edge connectors and terminals but the sound still drops out. It does come back right away if you press the button and start a new game. I dont think its a connection issue if starting a new game corrects it.

It doesn't sound like a connector issue to me either.

Does all sound appear to drop out, or just certain ones?

Does it gradually fade out, cut out suddenly, start getting garbled before cutting out in some way, or something else?

Can you post a video of what's happening as the sound cuts out?

#24 2 years ago

I just played 5 games to try and get it to do it but it worked fine lol. As far as i can tell it just drops out cleanly. You just suddenly realize there is no sound.

I will continue to play during the next couple days and try and pay more attention and let you know if there are any tell tail signs.

#25 2 years ago

A couple of things to try:

Is the connection between the sound board and the speaker solid? And is the voltage to the sound board consistent? The former should be reasonably easy to check, the latter requires at least a multimeter, and quite possibly an oscilloscope so you can actually watch the waveform.

#26 2 years ago

Sorry to hear you are having sound issues with the pin.Youve come to the right place to get it figured out.

#27 2 years ago

Its ok. I liken it to a used car. There are bound to be issues that neither the seller or the buyer can know about. No biggy

#28 2 years ago

Well instead of things getting better they have got worse. Last night the machine made all kinds of strange noises on its own just sitting there on and the 4 score displays went nuts and now the machine will not even play. It turns on and makes some initial noises, the playfield and back glass light up but the score displays do not light up and you can not start a game. Sigh........

#29 2 years ago

Man, sorry to hear. With my gottlieb BH I ended up just taking the time to install all new connector pins. That alone fixes a lot of problems you wouldn't expect it to fix. Second, I ended up just buying all new rottendog boards so that I will probably have fewer issues. My machine has had zero issues in several years now. Costly up front and time consuming, but worth it in the long run. Let me know if you want any help sometime with anything on it.

#30 2 years ago

Pull the MPU and check for cracked solder joints on the back.

I would also take a look at the ROM chip legs for tarnish/corrosion and the socket to make sure it makes contact with all the legs.

#31 2 years ago

By MPU do you mean the main "CPU" control board in the light box?

#32 2 years ago
Quoted from Zero-One:

By MPU do you mean the main "CPU" control board in the light box?

Yes, the main board in the backbox. Some people use the terms interchangeably. However, "CPU" usually refers to the actual processor chip on the board.

#33 2 years ago

OK. Thnak you. Here are some pics of the three boards in the back box. The MPU has had some previous corrosion cleaning and repair. Look low just left of center. The board looks really rough and I may try and purchase a replacement board first. Pinball Resource shows a Ni-wumpf board for $199.00

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Hulk Power Supply (resized).JPG

Hulk Driver (resized).JPG

#34 2 years ago

That power supply should really be refurbished or replaced. Those diodes that are sticking off the board make me nervous.

As for the MPU, it looks like the two chips (Z8 and Z28) in the lower left were hit with alkaline, but not replaced. The first thing I would do is replace anything with corrosion on it. Z8 interacts with the CPU a little bit, so I might suspect there could be something going wrong there.

http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1/#tools

But, if you'd rather just replace the board and not deal with it, that's fine too. Just let someone else have the old MPU if you don't want to keep it--they can sometimes be repaired, the ROM chip can reused to fix other games, or sometimes those spider chips can be used to fix other boards. I pick up boards like this all the time.

#35 2 years ago

I have the Ni-Wumph in my Hulk and it works great. I also replaced my power supply board with this: http://rottendog.us/GPS002.html

Keep at it. Let me know if you need any pics or other help. Also, look at your fuses. i had one go out during a party and it took out the slingshot kickers. Worth a shot before you pony up the cash for replacement boards!

Here's a pic of mine and ASM. Signed on the apron by Stan Lee and Lou Ferigno (Spidey only Stan, natch). These are my "never leaving" pins!

IMG_3909 (resized).JPG

#36 2 years ago

Wow! What a cool picture!! What makes it even more special is thats the next machine I had decided on getting! There was one that showed up here locally at a shop and I missed it by less than a week!

How does AMS play? Is it about the same as Hulk? The graphics are awesome.

#37 2 years ago

It's a widebody, and older, so it's slow compared to modern dmd pins, but I love it! Lots of shots, and when dialed in a lot of fun. Plus the art (for me, who owns over 13,000 comic books) is just fantastic! I find Hulk plays faster, but ASM is just as fun.

Be aware, however, that System 80s need ground mods, capacitor replacements, and TLC to be "bulletproof". There are guides online that show how to do this. But, like you are finding with your Hulk, all pinball machine have their quirks and issues--fixing and tweaking almost gets to be as fun as playing.

Here's a pic from MegaCon in Orlando last year--the guys from Free Play Florida had a gameroom set up to promote the show, and asked to borrow my machines. They both were played all weekend almost non-stop, so they CAN be fixed and be enjoyed--don't give up!

IMG_5464.PNG

3 weeks later
#38 2 years ago

So the RottenDog power supply is compatible with the Ni-Wumph board? Ok. I just got the Ni-Wumph in the mail today but I have had a heck of a time getting in touch with the rotten dog guy. There always a reason why he cant talk to me when I call. Sigh......I'm going to email him my order and see if that works better.

Do you think I'm safe going ahead and installing the MPU now with my old power supply or should I wait for the new power supply to get here. I'm getting impatient and want to play!!

#39 2 years ago

I would probably wait for a new power supply, like forceflow said that one looks kind of sketchy. As far as Rottendog, I read in another thread that Ace at Ni-wumpf had told someone that it is NOT compatable, but i have one in my Joker Poker along with a ni-wumpf and it seems to work fine. Might be worth an e-mail to ni-wumpf just to double check before ordering.

Nice looking Hulk, i look forward to adding one to my collection one day, fun game.

#40 2 years ago

Ok thank for the information. I emailed Pinball resource where I got the MPU and they are out of the power supply they offer. I'm not aware of another option other than Rottendog. Any other thoughts?

I just hung up with someone at Ni-Wumpf and he said pretty much any power supply even the Rotten Dog ones are fine. He said there have been no real complaints on any of them. Said something about another source being Great Plains Electronics.....

#41 2 years ago

Cool, that's good to know, straight from the source.

GPE power supply -> https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=125-101

#42 2 years ago

Perfect. Thanks. I emailed both Great Plains and Rottendog. Lets see if I can get a reply.

Great Plains is only 7 miles from where I live lol so that would be awesome however I'm not sure the power supply is available. There is a link at the bottom of the page you referenced that says "notify me when stock is available".....sigh........

#43 2 years ago

RE-pin it, get a pascil board and you'll never mess with it again

#44 2 years ago

I just installed the new power supply and MPU, I power it on and it does the same thing it did before. Just lights up and sits there.
It was supposed to go into a test mode where I can choose the game (these boards can be used in all 16 system 1 games).

Any ideas?

#45 2 years ago

Never mind for now.........I'm going to re-pin all of the cables in the back box this weekend. I'm sure that will do it.

#46 2 years ago
Quoted from Paulb:

RE-pin it, get a pascil board and you'll never mess with it again

Thats the way to go on these system 1 games and get a new sound board from pascal

#47 2 years ago

A new sound board huh? Ok I will look into that. The game came with a new driver board and I just replaced the MPU and power supply boards. Is the sound board pretty much the last major component I should worry about then?

#48 2 years ago

Yea you could have some bad conectors or sound board . Pascal is 60 euro and not sure if there are any others available . Its on the lower right side of cab by coin box . I have a original in my hulk and pascal in buck rogers

IMG_1383 (resized).JPG

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#49 2 years ago

Ok so Ive about had it lol.........I'm unable to remove the terminals from the connector to the left of the driver board connector.
This is the connector that must have suffered the most abuse from the battery leakage.
Does anyone have any card edge connector housings or know where I can buy some.

#50 2 years ago
Quoted from Zero-One:

Ok so Ive about had it lol.........I'm unable to remove the terminals from the connector to the left of the driver board connector.
This is the connector that must have suffered the most abuse from the battery leakage.
Does anyone have any card edge connector housings or know where I can buy some.

https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=77

This is where I got the connector housings for our Solar Ride. As near as I can tell, the specification for the connectors was changed slightly at some point after the System 1 was made, and the extraction tool also changed. My extraction tool fit the new housings just fine, but not the old housings. It was cheaper (time and money) for me to just CUT the wires off as close as possible, strip the ends, and crimp/install into the new housings.

As a note, a couple of the connectors, you'll have to order one position larger, and cut one of the "keys" out so that it will fit. It'll still be keyed enough that you can't really mess it up unless you misinstall one of the points.

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