(Topic ID: 69552)

1979 Cleopatra SS Issues


By pinhead_jack

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 18 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by german-pinball
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 5 years ago

Hello gang –

I am completely new to pinball so please excuse me if I am asking simple questions. That said, I recently purchased a Cleopatra SS machine that a guy was getting rid of real cheap and had been sitting around disconnected for a while. I hooked everything back up and have been able to get most of it back to life but I have a few issues I am not sure how to troubleshoot and repair.

1) Issue one: Rollover not registering
There are two rollover targets at the top of the playfield. The one on the right works just fine but the one on the left will not fire. The switch is there but if I manually push it closed it does not seem to register. Can the switch itself go bad? Any advice on tracking down the problem?
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2) Issue two: Drop Target Reset
The Solenoid coil for that resets the drop targets between balls does not fire. It will not fire during gameplay or during the coil test process (test step 13). I thought that the solenoid was burned out and purchased a new one based on the existing coil (#A-17891) but when I soldered the replacement in it still will not fire. What else can I look at or how can I trace this to find the issue?
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3) Issue Three: Sound Solenoids
This game has three chimes in the box for sound. Right now one of them is firing just fine and two do not see to be working. When they didn’t fire during the Solenoid test my first thought was that the two solenoids were bad. But when I tried to replace one I noticed that it may be trying to fire but the metal post barley moves as if it is under powered. Can one be getting the power it needs but the other two are not?

4) Issue Four: Displays Are Not Displaying
While all of the lights seem to be fine on the head unit the displays are not working correctly. All four seem to be suffering from a similar problem but I am not sure how to troubleshoot it. I read on pinwiki how to test the chips on the display and those seem to be ok. I then read about rejuvenating a display by hooking the first and last pin to a power source and I tried it with a 5v line but I didn’t see a different. Per the instructions I connected it to a 5v power source for 1 minute on, one off, a second minute on, and then reconnected the display but it didn’t seem to make a difference. Is it safe to try the rejuvenation with a 12v line? Based on all of the displays having an issue I am more inclined to think that the problem is somewhere else but I don’t want to jump to the conclusion that the CPU board is bad. Any ideas I can try to track this issue down?
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I know that this is a lot of issues to track down and I really appreciate any help that you can offer up to me. If I can get all the mechanical issues resolved I want to really clean up the playfield and cabinet to make this something I can be proud to have in my basement. I also picked up a Bally Night Rider pin which I am working on bringing back to life and I am hopeful that lessons here will help with that one once I get it to fire up.

Thank you!

#2 5 years ago

Have a read through this, http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1/index.htm

It sounds like you have plenty of bugs to iron out and most of the answers will be in that document which is probably the most comprehensive Sys 1 repair guide available.

From memory, you need to use 9V to rejuvenate a Gtb display which can be found at the lock out coil on the door. there is info on this in the Sys 1 pinrepair guide. Doing this will not solve the display issues you have though.

good chance the coils are no good on the chime unit. If the plunger will not travel through them they need replacing. If they are cooked, then the driver board will mor than likely need attention before you replace the coils.

Same thing for the drop target solenoid not working or there is a transistor that will be mounted under the playfield that will probably need replacing. Again, there are details on all of this in the pinrepair guide.

#3 5 years ago

Thank you for the link Pintoxicated. I had not seen that guide. I read through the information on pinwiki but I was getting to the root of these issues. I will read through the pinrepair guide and see if that can move me forward.

#4 5 years ago

Step one....

redo the connectors =)

#5 5 years ago

Update: Thanks to the great link on pinrepair I have been going through the game and have managed to resolve a number of the issues I was having.

==== RESOLVED ====
1) Issue one: Rollover not registering – Turned out that the switch was just not quite closing all the way when the ball rolled over the star insert. Once I bent the bottom switch leg up a millimeter or so the rollover started to register and score.

2) Issue two: Drop Target Reset – I totally missed the fuse that is located just behind the drop target box. It was under a group of wires and I had to move them to find it. I didn't know to look for it until I read about it in the pinrepair document.

3) Issue Three: Sound Solenoids – With a new understanding of how to test the solenoids (again thanks to pinrepair) I found out that all three solenoids were good and not the issue. I ended up re-soldering the wires and replacing the foam under the chime knockers which put them more inside the solenoid tube. That seems to have fixed the issue as all three are now firing correctly.

==== UNRESOLVED ====
4) Issue Four: Displays Are Not Displaying

Following the steps on the pinrepair site I checked the power levels on the power supply board and discovered that the 60 and 42 volt connections are low. The 60 is reading at 43.8 and the 42 is reading at 25. The top power connector, to the CPU (5 and 12), is good and reading right where they need to be. The issue is limited to the 60 and 42 volts on the side connection. I thought I might be able to adjust it with the POT above the connector but it does not appear to be functional and made no difference.

Any recommendations on how to troubleshoot or fix this issue? Before I go buy a new power supply board I wanted to see if there was something else I can look at or try first?

Thank you for all the help!

#6 5 years ago

You need to resolder all the pins on the connector of the display. It will fix 95% of any display problems.

#7 5 years ago

Great work so far pinhead_jack.

Cleo is an amazing game and hard as F#@$

Make sure you clean and wax that playfield and she will treat you like Mark Antony.

#8 5 years ago

I checked the pins on the connector that feeds the power supply board (on the bottom) and the power coming into the board is low for the 60 and 42 volt lines. Is there anything between the transformer and the connector feeding the power supply or does it seem like the transformer that feeds the 60 and 42 volts for the display is bad (the smaller one)?

Anyone know of a guide to testing the transformer? I am not sure how to check it.

Thank you

#9 5 years ago

Looking at the transformer that supplies the 60 and 42 volts I see that there is stuff oozing out of it. It is part number B-17921. I am guessing that it is shot and not producing the power I need any longer. That said I cannot find that part anywhere. Can anyone help me find a site that sells gottlieb transformers or help me understand how to test this transformer?

Thanks

#10 5 years ago

Before yu do anything else do the ground mods (if not already done): here's the link for John Robertson's site (who first proposed the Gottlieb ground mods)

http://www.flippers.com/gottlieb_ground_cures.html

Note that the 69VAC that feeds the high voltage section (+60 and +42V) is NOT referenced to ground. So, when checking this you need to measure directly across the xformer windings and not relative to ground.

#11 5 years ago

Thank you for the information woz. I have added a ground wire to the power board but not the driver board. I will add one per the article when I have a chance to get back to the machine.

Could you provide a little more information on how to measure directly across the xformer windings? I have been looking for a guide to checking the transformer as I am not confident I know how to measure it correctly.

Thank you

#12 5 years ago

The number one first thing that needs to be done before anything else is diagnosed is the MANDATORY grounding mods. Even if you have a ni-wumpf, that too needs to be grounded.

#13 5 years ago

OK, so tonight I added the ground lines to the power board, the MPU board, and the driver board. A new ground wire was soldered to each based on the link three posts up. With that completed I am back to trying to figure out what is going on with the displays. The 60 and 42 voltage, as read on the power board, is not where it needs to be. At this point I am leaning toward the transformer being bad but I am not sure how to measure the transformer to test it (which touch points to look at)?

Anyone have experience in this area they can share or a link? Or is there something else I should be checking? The playfield is working and I think the displays are the last issue to getting this pin back up and running.

#14 5 years ago

do you have the stock mpu board or the niwumpf?

#15 5 years ago

I have a stock mpu board.

#16 5 years ago

I am still struggling to find some instructions for testing the transformers on my pin. Anyone know of a good resource? I believe that the smaller transformer is the issue with why my displays will not light properly as the power seems to be good for the rest of the machine. Here are some images of the smaller transformer which appears to have leaked something out.
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1 week later
#17 5 years ago

Does anyone know if a system 80 transformers will work in a system 1? To be more specific, will the small transformer from a Counterforce machine (#B19548) work as a replacement for the small transformer that originally came with Cleopatra (B-17921)?

Thank you!

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from pinhead_jack:

Does anyone know if a system 80 transformers will work in a system 1? To be more specific, will the small transformer from a Counterforce machine (#B19548) work as a replacement for the small transformer that originally came with Cleopatra (B-17921)?
Thank you!

Therefore you have to look in the schematics, if the ouput voltages on the secondary are the same. I´ll try to look this evening.

Mightbe the attached file helps you; I have designed this a few years ago and unfortunately I lost the high resolution original file. It is for the german transformer, but the outputs on the secondary are the same.

- IngoSYS1_TRAFOBOARD.GIF

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