Lost World
Bally, 1978Okay so I posted on this forum before because I was having problems with my solenoids not firing (all of them). One person told me to move J1 connector 6 to J3 13 and that was a temp fix. People told me to resolder pin 6 or make a jumper. Long story short I suck I bought a BRAND new rectifier board and had a professional pinball place solder the new one on. I am STILL having problems with solenoids firing. Only the startup one fires and both flippers. Thats it 3.
The knocker is the only coil not protected by that 1 amp fuse doesn’t protect. Is that the only coil that fires other than flippers?
Quoted from pinballdaveh:The knocker is the only coil not protected by that 1 amp fuse doesn’t protect. Is that the only coil that fires other than flippers?
Yes the start up knocker is the only one that fires other than the 2 flippers. I legit jujust tst replaced that fuse under the playfield. Brand new.
Make sure the crappy factory Bally fuse holder is ok. Mine looked ok, but the clips had cracked. Can be hard to see w/a casual glance.
Quoted from pinkid:Make sure the crappy factory Bally fuse holder is ok. Mine looked ok, but the clips had cracked. Can be hard to see w/a casual glance.
Yes I actually just bought a new one and soldered it on I will take a picture in a little bit and post it
If the knocker fires and the 2 flippers work, but none of the other solenoids work, I guarantee you the problem is related to that 1 amp slow blow fuse under the playfield. If the knocker fires, you have the correct voltages present to fire the solenoids. Double and triple check that fuse. Also check for ~43 volts DC at each coil lug. You will see the 43 volts on the coil lugs of the knocker assembly, but when 43 volts is not present on the coil lugs of the other coils, it is because of that 1 amp fuse. Then place your digital volt meter on each side of that fuse holder (one side at a time). If 43 volts is present on one side of the fuse, but not on the other side, you have found your problem.
Quoted from BallyPinWiz:If the knocker fires and the 2 flippers work, but none of the other solenoids work, I guarantee you the problem is related to that 1 amp slow blow fuse under the playfield. If the knocker fires, you have the correct voltages present to fire the solenoids. Double and triple check that fuse. Also check for ~43 volts DC at each coil lug. You will see the 43 volts on the coil lugs of the knocker assembly, but when 43 volts is not present on the coil lugs of the other coils, it is because of that 1 amp fuse. Then place your digital volt meter on each side of that fuse holder (one side at a time). If 43 volts is present on one side of the fuse, but not on the other side, you have found your problem.
Okay so here is where im at right now. (With the machine on) I tested continuity in the fuse under the play field its good its putting out 45.2DC volts. All of the other solenoids EXCEPT the knocker, with the machine on is 0.0 DC volts. Im sending a picture of the fuse. Its BRAND new. Looks like it already blew when i turned the machine on??? I have 5 more new ones. I replaced the fuse holder AND fuse. Solders both wires on it too.
your picture shows a blown fuse. Since it is scorched like that it was likely blown by a small overcurrent... like a single locked on solenoid.
If you cant find the culprit by visual inspection you can put a new fuse in. Raise the PF. Power on briefly to see which one locks on. Just turn it off before the fuse pops or you heat up any parts.
Quoted from barakandl:your picture shows a blown fuse. Since it is scorched like that it was likely blown by a small overcurrent... like a single locked on solenoid.
Transistor need replaced?
Quoted from McPin54:Transistor need replaced?
There is a good chance one will be bad.
If you cant find the culprit by visual inspection you can put a new fuse in. Raise the PF. Power on briefly to see which one locks on. Just turn it off before the fuse pops or you heat up any parts.
Continuity should not be tested with the machine on. Machine off, meter on ohms, measure across fuse.
With machine on, meter on volts, measure from one side of fuse ( red) to ground (black).
One way to find the bad coil: Disconnect the gound side ( non yellow) side of each coil. Connect coils one at a time, re-energize machine till you find the one thats energized.
Alternatively, you can measure each coil to ground, and find it if a transistor is shorted . Machine off, meter on ohms.
Quoted from McPin54:Transistor need replaced?
Okay so I visually inspected all of the solenoids and they seem to be fine. Nothing out of the ordinary. Im looking at my solenoid board. (Now I dont care how much money I dump into this machine. I only want this one, its my favorite and I plan on keeping it for a long time.) So I see that the transistor Q16 looks a little burnt/fried. Im not to good at soldering. Should i take it in to get fixed?? Or for the long run just buy a new solenoid board?? Or if its super easy I can maybe try it by myself.
Quoted from drewblaz:So I see that the transistor Q16 looks a little burnt/fried. Im not to good at soldering. Should i take it in to get fixed??
Transistor Q16 has failed in the past and has been replaced. Lost World doesn't have any solenoids hooked up to Q16 so ignore it. This solenoid driver board has come from some other game.
It's one of the other transistors that's likely causing the problem.
Follow the suggestions by barakandl above in post #12 and
Validpowerdetect (post #13) to determine which coil is locking on at powerup.
Quoted from Validpowerdetect:Also, that 5v filter cap should be replaced, it looks like it's starting to bulge.
=O Yeah one of the leads is starting to bend. I have seen those blue caps start squeezing out dried up electrolyte gunk by the terminals there when they puff up like that. Probably needs replaced soon.
I missed the part where we determined there is a stuck coil?? Try this, unsolder the yellow wire from the playfield coils and see if the fuse blows. If it does carefully trace the yellow wire around the playfield, it has to be shorted somewhere.
If the fuse no longer blows with the yellow wire unsoldered begin reconnecting each coil one by one until the fuse blows. That will identify the bad coil.
Quoted from timab2000:If money is no object....just buy a new board from Alltec and be done with it.
Buying an Alltek solenoid driver board is not going to solve his problem if he has a bad coil. He needs to identify the which coil is bad first.
Quoted from BigAl56:I missed the part where we determined there is a stuck coil?? Try this, unsolder the yellow wire from the playfield coils and see if the fuse blows. If it does carefully trace the yellow wire around the playfield, it has to be shorted somewhere.
If the fuse no longer blows with the yellow wire unsoldered begin reconnecting each coil one by one until the fuse blows. That will identify the bad coil.
I agree. Also can he just check the coils with his meter. I'm not sure what they measure
Coils are a very low resistance and hard to test with a meter. It's easier to carefully examine looking for a brown toasted coil or to disconnect the wires.
More times than not it's not a coil but the yellow fused 43v wire is shorting against a target bank or some other piece of metal on the playfield.
Quoted from Validpowerdetect:A problem on the SDB will blow a fuse, however.
But not the playfield fuse. The PF fuse was added so if a playfield coil locked on it would not take out the transistor. If the PF fuse is blowing it can only be 2 possibilities,
The 43v bus is shorted
There is a shorted out coil.
Quoted from BigAl56:But not the playfield fuse. The PF fuse was added so if a playfield coil locked on it would not take out the transistor. If the PF fuse is blowing it can only be 2 possibilities,
The 43v bus is shorted
There is a shorted out coil.
You are overlooking a common occurrence. A blown driver circuit, whether that means a bad decoder chip output. bad ca3081 transistor, or bad main darlington transistor will lock on a solenoid(non shorted) and blow the PF fuse regardless if the coil is shorted or not.
The original darlington transistor can seemingly fail for no particular reason, lock on a solenoid, and then blow the PF fuse. The transistors usually fail for a reason tho, like the coil mounted diode breaks off, but I have had an original transistor just short and lock on during a game.
Once the darlington shorts if the PF fuse is not the right value, or its a chime box, or its the knocker (notice how knocker coil Q3 circuit on driver board get burned up often, no extra fuse like PF coils) the coil sticks on until it burns and goes really low resistance and then finally takes out the 5a rectifier fuse. The driver board and coil can and often will burn up before the rectifier fuse blows.
Getting off topic, but the knocker and chime box really should be fused like the PF coils are.
Okay so what is a better option?? I can de-solder all of my yellow wires going to all of my solenoids and check the coils that way. Or I can buy a new solenoid board and see if that is the issue.
Also just me visually inspecting all of the solenoids, they look good. No stray wires are touching them to short them out.
Quoted from drewblaz:Okay so what is a better option?? I can de-solder all of my yellow wires going to all of my solenoids and check the coils that way. Or I can buy a new solenoid board and see if that is the issue.
Also just me visually inspecting all of the solenoids, they look good. No stray wires are touching them to short them out.
don't buy a new driver board. that seems like a waste at this point and a damaged PF coil could damage the new board. Also desoldering, removing wires and attaching them one at a time is overly invasive testing.
Do this...
Raise the PF.
VISUAL inspection of all coils. Do they move freely? Any burnt looking and stuck? if they all look good..
Install new PF fuse
Power on the game briefly and listen for a solenoid to lock on. If so figure out what coil it is. If the fuse blows immediately and you don't hear any coil lock on report back.
Based on XP you are likely going to have a shorted/burnt coil and/or a shorted driver transistor. If the coil has not burned up, a shorted driver transistor will lock on the solenoid.
Quoted from barakandl:don't buy a new driver board. that seems like a waste at this point and a damaged PF coil could damage the new board. Also desoldering, removing wires and attaching them one at a time is overly invasive testing.
Do this...
Raise the PF.
VISUAL inspection of all coils. Do they move freely? Any burnt looking and stuck? if they all look good..
Install new PF fuse
Power on the game briefly and listen for a solenoid to lock on. If so figure out what coil it is. If the fuse blows immediately and you don't hear any coil lock on report back.
Based on XP you are likely going to have a shorted/burnt coil and/or a shorted driver transistor. If the coil has not burned up, a shorted driver transistor will lock on the solenoid.
Okay so visually yes they look fine. I can move all of them up and down freely with no resistance. I put in a new PF fuse. Turned it on. Lights came on. It did its game start up chime. Thats all i didnt hear anything from under the playfield. I even moved all of the solenoids up and down with the machine on. I turned it off after 1 minute. Fuse still looks good for the time being.
I attached a picture of what all of my solenoids look like. Nice clean coils. Some of them even look newer.
Quoted from drewblaz:Also just so everyone knows I re-pin and crimped every wire in this machine. Is there a possibility that I didn't do a good job on one of the wires causing the solenoids not to work?
Yes so double check your work specially around rectifier solenoid power for the PF and driver board solenoid transistors.
If the fuse is not blowing anymore and you see 43v on the coils put the game in solenoid test.
Okay so an update. I ordered a new solenoid board. Im not gonna install it until I find if there is a bad solenoid or not. BUT im not even getting voltage to ANY of the solenoids except my 2 flippers and the knocker (44vdc). I tested the tests also
TP1 4vdc
TP 2 184vdc
TP 3 4vdc
TP 4 230vdc
TP 5 14vdc.
But why am i not getting any power to my solenoids?? I thought it was an issue with my old rectifier board. So I bought a brand new one. Something with J1 pin 6??
Where are you measuring? If the flippers have power and the rest of the coils don't it's probably a fuse or fuse holder problem. Check the brown wire on the flippers. It goes to the fuse holder so if you have 43v at the flippers but not on the yellow wire to the rest of the coils either the fuse is blown, the fuse holder is bad, or that brown wire is open somewhere.
Quoted from BigAl56:Where are you measuring? If the flippers have power and the rest of the coils don't it's probably a fuse or fuse holder problem. Check the brown wire on the flippers. It goes to the fuse holder so if you have 43v at the flippers but not on the yellow wire to the rest of the coils either the fuse is blown, the fuse holder is bad, or that brown wire is open somewhere.
When I was measuring, I measured DC on the solenoid coils when the machine was on. I just replaced the fuse and bought a new fuse holder. So when I check the brown wire, I power on the machine. Red probe to brown wire, black to ground?? Same for yellow wire?? Should be 43v right?
Quoted from drewblaz:When I was measuring, I measured DC on the solenoid coils when the machine was on. I just replaced the fuse and bought a new fuse holder. So when I check the brown wire, I power on the machine. Red probe to brown wire, black to ground?? Same for yellow wire?? Should be 43v right?
DMM set to volts dc. black lead on ground. red lead probe that fuse. You should see 43v on both sides of that fuse.
If missing follow that brown wire back to the rectifier board @ J1 P6. labeled SOL BUS (PF) on the wiring diagram page.
Quoted from barakandl:DMM set to volts dc. black lead on ground. red lead probe that fuse. You should see 43v on both sides of that fuse.
Ok 45.2dc on the left side. The right side is 0. I check the comtinuity of a brand new fuse....good. I put it in the machine anf test the voltage and its still 0 on the right side AND IT BLOWS THE FUSE as soooon as I turn my machine on....... 4 fuses down 2 left before I have to order more.....
Ok you have a short on the other side of that fuse.
Set your dmm to low resistance measure. With the power off check resistance across the leads of every coil. Looking for one that is shorted or really low ohms.
If you find a coil that reads shorted... cut the diode off of it and check again. If it still reads shorted the coil is shorted and bad.
Quoted from barakandl:Ok you have a short on the other side of that fuse.
Set your dmm to low resistance measure. With the power off check resistance across the leads of every coil. Looking for one that is shorted or really low ohms.
If you find a coil that reads shorted... cut the diode off of it and check again. If it still reads shorted the coil is shorted and bad.
Okay so I tested all of the solenoids and I THINK I found the bad one. Now im pretty sure I didnt test it the way you told me too. But I had it on this setting (see picture below) the machine was off. There are 2 of the same solenoids I put the black to ground braid and red to each of leads. The yellow lead was like .5 and the black lead was like 10.2 BUT of the opposite side. The yellow lead was .5 but the black lead was ALSO .5 it was the only solenoid that seemed off. NOW should I DEsolder to get the diode off?? I really dont wanna mess this up causing another dumb problem. Alsoooooo I didnt know there was a tiny solenoid in the coin door 
Again if I tested it wrong tell me exactly what setting to put it on. But I think that is the bad solenoid down below.
If I understand properly you found the black wire is shorted to ground which leads me to believe the transistor that drives that coil would be shorted collector to emitter.
Don't cut the diode off yet. Try this first... Keep your DMM on the low ohm range and probe right across the two lugs the coil and see what the resistance is. if it reads 0.00 across the coil in both directions then cut off the diode to see if the short across the coil clears.
Quoted from barakandl:If I understand properly you found the black wire is shorted to ground which leads me to believe the transistor that drives that coil would be shorted collector to emitter.
Don't cut the diode off yet. Try this first... Keep your DMM on the low ohm range and probe right across the two lugs the coil and see what the resistance is. if it reads 0.00 across the coil in both directions then cut off the diode to see if the short across the coil clears.
Okay yeah its definitely that one. I did what you said on the same setting and its ready .5 while the other solenoid is reading like 13 or something normal. Sooo should I literally cute the diode off with some wire cutters or something or just desolder both leads and pull it out?? Also am I going to half to buy a new solenoid?? Or another diode?? Just a bunchof questions I have before I put my new solenoid board in.
Quoted from drewblaz:Okay yeah its definitely that one. I did what you said on the same setting and its ready .5 while the other solenoid is reading like 13 or something normal. Sooo should I literally cute the diode off with some wire cutters or something or just desolder both leads and pull it out?? Also am I going to half to buy a new solenoid?? Or another diode?? Just a bunchof questions I have before I put my new solenoid board in.
Whether or not you have to buy a new solenoid depends on if that diode is shorted =D.
A diode costs a penny, so just cut one lead loose and try the resistance test again.
Quoted from barakandl:Whether or not you have to buy a new solenoid depends on if that diode is shorted =D.
A diode costs a penny, so just cut one lead loose and try the resistance test again.
Okay so I guess it was the diode. I desolder and cut the diode off. Resolderd the 2 leads back on a tested the ohms and its at 13.2 just like the opposite one.
So where do I go from here?? Looks like I need a new diode to order. Are they all the same?? Can I power my machine on without blowing a fuse?? Will all of my solenoids work EXCEPT this one right now?? Can I put in my new solenoid board without causing damage?? So many questions lol
Put a new 1n4007 diode on (polarized device, band towards yellow wire) before trying to fire that solenoid again.
When the diode went bang it probably killed your driver board transistor. If the black wire still reads short to ground the solenoid driver transistor is bad. Using the manual figure out transistor on the driver board controls that solenoid (Q1 to Q19) and replace it.
Changing the coil diode and driver board transistor should get you going.
If you want to play the game without that coil in the mean time take one lead off and insulate it until you get the parts.
Quoted from barakandl:Put a new 1n4007 diode on (polarized device, band towards yellow wire) before trying to fire that solenoid again.
When the diode went bang it probably killed your driver board transistor. If the black wire still reads short to ground the solenoid driver transistor is bad. Using the manual figure out transistor on the driver board controls that solenoid (Q1 to Q19) and replace it.
Changing the coil diode and driver board transistor should get you going.
If you want to play the game without that coil in the mean time take one lead off and insulate it until you get the parts.
Yeah the black lead is still low soooo its the transistor. But since I have a new solenoid board already on the way. Ill order some diodes and more 1 amp slow blow fuses. I will put it all together and comment on this thread again once everything comes in the mail.
Thank you everyone for your help I really appreciate it. More than likely I will make another thread involving other stuff about my game like lights, scoreboards, etc if I cant figure it out by myself. I really want this to be perfect. I brought it back from the dead and got it running.
Alright good news, I put the new solenoid board in. Soldered on a new diode and BAM all of my solenoids work. Im soooo close to playing my first game on my new lost world. Only about 4 bulbs dont work (must be the sockets because I just bought all brand new bulbs) and my score boards are kinda old and 2 dont work. Anyone recommend where to buy new scoreboards for my ballly 1978 lost world??
The sockets may still be ok. You made have some bad SCRs on your lamp driver board. Not hard to replace. Glad you are making progress.
I would try to determine first if the non working panels are repairable or worn out.
Lots of gently used 6-digit display panels on ebay. There are also new LED/LCD based panels that look like the originals. But you would have to do the whole set of 5 to match.
As far as the lamps go. Simple to test, just attach a test wire to the ground braid of the game and touch it to the wire tab on the socket. If the lamp lights up there is nothing wrong with the socket. Pinkid is probably right though, more often than not it's a bad SCR.
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Sterling Heights, MI