1978 LOST WORLD help!!

Alright I am a first time new pinball owner. I bought a NON working 1978 Bally Lost World. Everything was intact. It had all of the Boards and the wiring looked really good. The guy who sold it to me said I needed a new MPU board (which I bought). Sooooo I replaced all of the plastic pieces, all of the rubbers, I bought and put in a brand new LED kit for all of the bulbs, I cleaned and waxed the playfield, and put in a new shooting rod. I put it all back together, now was the time for the electrical part. I am NEW to all of this stuff as in stripping, crimping, and putting new connectors. SOOO I replaced all of the connectors that looked burnt. I didn't replace ANY pins(I don't have any soldering equipment) they all looked pretty good.

I plugged in the J1 J2 J3 connectors on the Rectifier board and Tested the 5 test points as someone told me to do so. TP1 was good TP2 was low TP3 was okay TP4 I couldn't figure out of to read AC on my DMM, TP5 was okay. When I turned it on to test. Nothing on the playfield lit up. BUT on the BACKBOX all on the G.I lit up so that made me feel good. So I said fuck it and plugged all of the connectors in and tried to turn the machine on. Nothing bad happened, The sound of the game even made some noise. Barley any of the Playfield lights lit up. Like less than half. NONE and I repeat NON of the solenoid things work. Bumpers, flippers, anything. The score boards look like they work fine except 1. I even played a "fake" game and selected 4 players and hit some stuff and It was giving points. BUT ITS FAR from workings properly. I need help but I am new to all of this. I have the basic concept on how to do things now and im learning as I go along. But I am stumped right now.

#2 6 years ago

desertT1

Tucson Pinball

Vail, AZ

12y 72,550 4,032 23

The bulb sockets on the lights that aren't coming on might be bad, that happens.

There is a relay that clicks on to give coil power. Can't remember if it's just for the flippers, or all coils. Are you getting voltage on any of the coils?

#3 6 years ago

???

drewblaz

Inactive member

The only thing i know to test voltage on so far is the rectifier board on the 5 test points. Is there test points on the solenoid board too?? Also someone said something about the blue batteries on the solenoid board. Looks like there are 2 of them. Also side note. I have the orignal rectifier board/transformer or that big block power supply thing.

#4 6 years ago

desertT1

Tucson Pinball

Vail, AZ

12y 72,550 4,032 23

With a game started, lift the playfield and touch the red probe of your DMM to a coil lug. Then touch the black lead to the ground braid. If you have voltage, the power is good. If you don't have any voltage the relay might need to be looked at. Again, this is assuming that the relay controls all of the coil voltage, which I can't remember. Test a random coil and also test a flipper coil.

If you have voltage everywhere, you might have an issue with your driver board. Google "pinwiki" and then go to the link for your game type. There is a lot of information there and will probably be a great reference.

#5 6 years ago

STC

chas10e

Pinside member

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lost-world-probably-minor-issues

I'm having trouble with "pinwiki" I wonder if it got hijacked or something

I think this is "Clays guide": http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index1.htm

for your solonoids not firing, there is also a fuse on bottom of playfield to check

the 2 big Blue cylinders on your solenoid driver board are capacitors and if origonal probably need to be replaced. read Clays guide & it will explain why

all the board have test points and the values will be listed in the guide

#6 6 years ago

JEB

Jeremy8419

Inactive member

7y 24,050 259 1

I have one of those. Press the test button inside the coin door and list what happens for each of the steps. The steps are outlined in the manual.

#7 6 years ago

WOT

Atari_Daze

Spd

Houston, TX

7y 141K 10,052 7

Quoted from chas10e:
I'm having trouble with "pinwiki" I wonder if it got hijacked or something

Yea there is something up with it, there is a post somewhere on here about it.

Pinrepair.com is also a good resource I use all the time too, and pinwiki when it works.

#8 6 years ago

JEB

Jeremy8419

Inactive member

7y 24,050 259 1

That was the thread for mine. Good info on it.

#9 6 years ago

JAY

jay

Pinside member

Santa Ana, CA

13y 59,050 791 6 68

Quoted from chas10e:
I'm having trouble with "pinwiki" I wonder if it got hijacked or something

The page that’s showing up for pinwiki is what happens when you don’t pay your bill with hostgator. Whoever owns the domain and/or is responsible for paying for the webhosting probably had a card expire and forgot to update it in the billing system. Hostgator is a garbage conpany and instead of telling customers, they just throw up their parked domain page and wait for folks to realize and contact them to sort it out.

#10 6 years ago

???

drewblaz

Inactive member

Ok so update. I put the black tester to the ground silver wire and the red to the coil om mutiple cylinders and im tested it to DC voltage??(idk) but im getting nothing. Also i also tried pushing the test button and like 99% of my new LEDs came on which made me happy. Then i hit it again and a super loud knocking noise happened and scared the shit out of me. I heard it before playing a working one.

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#11 6 years ago

???

drewblaz

Inactive member

Those are some pictures of my boards above. Yeah when i did the solenoid test. Not even 1 bumper or flipper or anything even moved not 1. Idk if i should just buy a new solenoid board or what. Mine looks pretty good. It would suck if i had to buy all new solenoids.

#12 6 years ago

STC

chas10e

Pinside member

lol that was probably the replay "knocker" coil firing in bottom box

look for a single fuse holder on the bottom of the playfield should be a 1 amp slo-blow fuse in there , look for any burnt solenoids first before putting a fuse in there , should be able to move the plungers by hand

#13 6 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

There's a fuse under the playfield between the flipper mechanisms which is for the playfield solenoids. Have you checked that fuse yet to see if it's good?

#14 6 years ago

???

drewblaz

Inactive member

Ok i see the fuse it looks fine. How do i check it. Black to ground wire got that. Red to what?? And should i check it on DC voltage?? Also side note i didnt have the game swith to lost world which was 00001000 but that didnt change much expect the leds are doing what they should and test 4 is sound which is working fine. On test 3 (solenoid) it makes the knock counts to 11 on the score board sounds like a CLICK then knocks again and starts over. Nothing moving though, no bumpers, flippers etc.

#15 6 years ago

STC

chas10e

Pinside member

with machine off check continuity of the fuse

I removed my fuse from my Xenon and it behaved the ways your machine is sounding

knocker sounds -display counts up for other coils them I get 2 clicks , one is a small coin reject relay on coin door , the other is a cube relay on the Solonoid driver board, if I hold the flipper buttons in the flippers work

#16 6 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from drewblaz:
Ok i see the fuse it looks fine. How do i check it. Black to ground wire got that. Red to what??

Also measure that you have solenoid power to that playfield fuse.
Set your multi-meter to DC voltage.
Connect the black meter lead to ground; red meter lead on each side of that fuse should measure 43 volts.

#17 6 years ago

???

drewblaz

Inactive member

Okay so I checked the DC voltage on all 5 TP on the solenoid board. TP1 5 TP2 186 TP3 5 TP4 250 TP5 15. I have no clue what is spec and whats not. I also Checked the continuity of the fuse on the playfield ON AND OFF touching the black to one side and the red to another side of the fuse. On the playfield it reads .8 on/off. I also checked the continuity of the fuse on the solenoid BOARD on/off and off its .7 and ON its .9. also putting red on 1 side of the fuse and black on the other(if thats how you check continuity)

#18 6 years ago

JEB

Jeremy8419

Inactive member

7y 24,050 259 1

OP
Quoted from drewblaz:
Okay so I checked the DC voltage on all 5 TP on the solenoid board. TP1 5 TP2 186 TP3 5 TP4 250 TP5 15. I have no clue what is spec and whats not. I also Checked the continuity of the fuse on the playfield ON AND OFF touching the black to one side and the red to another side of the fuse. On the playfield it reads .8 on/off. I also checked the continuity of the fuse on the solenoid BOARD on/off and off its .7 and ON its .9. also putting red on 1 side of the fuse and black on the other(if thats how you check continuity)

It says all that on the thread I linked, as well as links to the manual. The Test has like 6 different parts to it.

#19 6 years ago

???

Validpowerdetect

Inactive member

I highly recommend that you watch a utube video on the use of a multimeter.
When you ask questions like " How do I check continuity ", all the expertise on this
forum isn't going to help you fix this thing if you don't know how to use test equipment.

#20 6 years ago

???

drewblaz

Inactive member

Alright so i did more reasearch. Okay with the machine ON the rectifier board when i tested the TPs are TP1 7.7 TP2 222 TP3 14 TP4 6.4 (ac) TP5 44. The manual says TP1 5.4 TP2 230 TP3 11.3 TP4 7.3 (ac) TP5 43. So i think everything looka good there.
I tested the TPs in the solenoid driver board. TP1 5 TP2 186 TP3 5 TP4 250 TP5 15. Manual says TP1 5 TP2 190 TP3 5 TP4 230 TP5 11.8. So i think everything looks good there.
I tested the continuity of all of the solenoids with the machine on. All of them are about or 11 except the flippers. The flippers are like 2.3. I checked the continuity of the fuses on the rectifier board, the 1 fuse on the solenoid board and the fuse under the playfield. And i think they are all fine. Unless im dumb and they are all bad. I still cant figure out with none of the solenoids are working.

#21 6 years ago

???

drewblaz

Inactive member

Here are some pictures. 1 is the fuse under the playfield. 1 picture is under the playfield. And another is the fuses on the rectifer board.

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#22 6 years ago

CSB

klr650

Pinside+ Frequent

7y 93,550 932 161

Have you tested the continuity of the Playfield Fuse AFTER removing the fuse from the fuse holder?

P.S. The right side of fuse holder appears to have broken off from the base so it might not hurt to get a new holder in the future.

Edit - Best to use the Continuity feature of a Multimeter with pinball machine POWER OFF.

#23 6 years ago

???

Validpowerdetect

Inactive member

Put your meter on 200 ohms. Put a lead on each side of that playfield fuse. Reading should be a few tenths of an ohm, beeper should sound if the meter has one. Game needs to be off.

If that test is good, turn game on, set meter to dcv, put black lead on ground braid, red lead to one side of fuse, then the other. Both should read around +43vdc.

#24 6 years ago

???

drewblaz

Inactive member

Quoted from klr650:
Have you tested the continuity of the Playfield Fuse AFTER removing the fuse from the fuse holder?
P.S. The right side of fuse holder appears to have broken off from the base so it might not hurt to get a new holder in the future.
Edit - Best to use the Continuity feature of a Multimeter with pinball machine POWER OFF.

No i tried to test it with the fuse in the holder. I will take it out, leave the machine off and test for continuity. I HAVENT re pinned anything but the rectifier board yet, but the guy i bought it from said i should anyways even though i think the conmectors all look good. I guess worst case scenario is i will have to buy a new solenoid board.

#25 6 years ago

AMR

BigAl56

Pinside+ Frequent

Palatine, IL

7y 64,800 1,651

I do not think you have a bad solenoid board. The coils that are not located on the playfield are working fine and I doubt all the playfield solenoid drive transistors are bad. Certainly doesn't look like it from your photos.

This is most likely a 48v issue on the playfield. A very simple problem to troubleshoot. Start with the fuse holder. Do you measure 43v on the yellow wire coming off the playfield fuse holder? Take your meter configured for DC. Touch the black lead, negative, to the metal frame of the game and the red positive lead to the yellow wire that goes to all the coils. There should be 43v DC on that wire. If not check the other side of the fuse the brown wire.

I'm guessing the fuse or fuse holder is bad. (it sure looks bad in the photo).

#26 6 years ago

???

drewblaz

Inactive member

Okay so i put it to DC black lead on ground silver braid and red on BOTH sides of the fuse and BOTH sides of the fuse is reading 0 voltage. I took out the fuse put it on my table and the comtinuity is good. Its definitely NOT getting voltage though. I even tried to RE pin aka all new crimps and connectors IN THE ENTIRE backbox. Nothing changed. So how do i get voltage there??

#27 6 years ago

???

drewblaz

Inactive member

I also did some wire tracing and it looks like 2 big fat wires (green and orange )give power to each of those 2 flipper solenoids and other ones as well. And it so happens thatttt they both go back to J1 connector on the solenoid board. This wasnt working BEFORE i pinned it or AFTER.

20180126_190745 (resized).jpg

#28 6 years ago

???

Validpowerdetect

Inactive member

Anyone notice that he has a rectifier board out of a Kiss or Space Invaders in that Lost World?
They were the only games that utilized the two tranistors in place of a bridge, if memory serves me.

#29 6 years ago

???

drewblaz

Inactive member

Yes i did notice that when i was repinnging the board. I said to myself why does J1 connectors have 9 pins and my rebuild has an 8 slot one. The 9th pin is for those 3 games.
Anywaysss i disconnected the connector on my J1 pins on the solenoid board and each pin is not getting any voltage. A friend told me that i might have crackes solder joints and need to put in new pins. Im gonna test every other pin on my solenoid board to see if anything else is getting power or J1 is the only thing out.

#30 6 years ago

???

Validpowerdetect

Inactive member

Just noticed in the pics, is J1 on the rect bd plugged in correctly?
Got a male pin sticking out in the breeze.

#31 6 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

Quoted from Validpowerdetect:
Anyone notice that he has a rectifier board out of a Kiss or Space Invaders in that Lost World?

Yep, that's the reason there's a 9th pin on J1 floating in the wind - it's ok.

J1 at the solenoid driver board provides a ground path to the flippers and playfield coils. That's not why you have no voltage at the playfield fuse.

The brown wire at the playfield fuse is where the incoming 43V to the fuse is. If you trace that brown wire it should go to the flippers solenoids.
With the machine ON, do you measure 43VDC at any of the lugs on the flipper solenoids?

That brown wire originates from the Rectifier board - pin 6 of connector J1. Are you measuring 43VDC at that pin 6 of J1 at the rectifier board?

LostWorld_RectBoard.jpg

#32 6 years ago

STC

chas10e

Pinside member

does the SDB need 2 screws to ground it or does 1 screw do the job ?

also is the back box braid connected?

also ( it may have been mentioned) the game code for the Altek MPU in the pic isn't set for Lost World http://www.allteksystems.com/pdfs/Complete%20Ver%20L.3%20MANUAL.pdf

#33 6 years ago

???

drewblaz

Inactive member

Quoted from Quench:
Yep, that's the reason there's a 9th pin on J1 floating in the wind - it's ok.
J1 at the solenoid driver board provides a ground path to the flippers and playfield coils. That's not why you have no voltage at the playfield fuse.
The brown wire at the playfield fuse is where the incoming 43V to the fuse is. If you trace that brown wire it should go to the flippers solenoids.
With the machine ON, do you measure 43VDC at any of the lugs on the flipper solenoids?
That brown wire originates from the Rectifier board - pin 6 of connector J1. Are you measuring 43VDC at that pin 6 of J1 at the rectifier board?

Ok i tested the DC on all of the solenoids and got nothing when the machine was on. Like i said that J1 connector on the solenoid isnt getting any power. I also changed the game swithes to the altek (the last one, i just copied the previous MPU switches) any other suggestions?? Here are 2 pictures on the BACK of the solenoid board.

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#34 6 years ago

???

Validpowerdetect

Inactive member

Solenoid buss ground is SDB J3, pins 24, 24 on my Lost World print.

#35 6 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from drewblaz:
Like i said that J1 connector on the solenoid isnt getting any power.

The solenoid driver board is downstream from the solenoids - it does not provide 43V power to the solenoids.

Quoted from Quench:
That brown wire originates from the Rectifier board - pin 6 of connector J1. Are you measuring 43VDC at that pin 6 of J1 at the rectifier board?

This is where power to the playfield solenoids comes from. Do yourself a favor and measure this - you might have accidentally not crimped it properly. Follow the path of this brown wire to the playfield.

#36 6 years ago

???

drewblaz

Inactive member

Quoted from Quench:
The solenoid driver board is downstream from the solenoids - it does not provide 43V power to the solenoids.

This is where power to the playfield solenoids comes from. Do yourself a favor and measure this - you might have accidentally not crimped it properly. Follow the path of this brown wire to the playfield.

I see the brown wire on J1 pin 6. Is there a way i can test the voltage on the wire/pin without removing the connector?? (Brown wire that is)

#37 6 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from drewblaz:
I see the brown wire on J1 pin 6. Is there a way i can test the voltage on the wire/pin without removing the connector?? (Brown wire that is)

Try and squeeze your red meter probe into the plastic connector housing where the brown wire enters.

With the machine Off, I would remove that brown wire from the connector and confirm that it was crimped properly - maybe you didn't strip enough insulation from it.

#38 6 years ago

SMM

McPin54

Pinside member

Massillon, OH

10y 103K 1,818 50 22

I would reflow solder on all pins

20180126_205755 (resized).png

#39 6 years ago

???

drewblaz

Inactive member

Quoted from Quench:
Try and squeeze your red meter probe into the plastic connector housing where the brown wire enters.
With the machine Off, I would remove that brown wire from the connector and confirm that it was crimped properly - maybe you didn't strip enough insulation from it.

That is the brown wire J1 pin 6 it looks good to me but ive only been doing this about 2 weeks lol

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#40 6 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

That crimp looks good enough.
Since you've got the J1 connector off, what voltage did you measure at J1 pin 6 on the rectifier board?

#41 6 years ago

SMM

McPin54

Pinside member

Massillon, OH

10y 103K 1,818 50 22

I'd like to see a clean even cut. Then a strip all the way through the pin clasp. I may redo that one.

Twist the stripped wires.

Keep going, you're learning a lot and your willingness to learn is AWESOME

#42 6 years ago

???

drewblaz

Inactive member

Quoted from Quench:
That crimp looks good enough.
Since you've got the J1 connector off, what voltage did you measure at J1 pin 6 on the rectifier board?

Ok with the machine ON and thr connector out. Black probe on ground and red on the pins. DC voltage is. 0 on pin 1, 0 pin 2, 8 pin 3, key, 0 pin 5, 0 pin 6, 7 pin 8

#43 6 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

Looks like you've got no voltage on pin 6. With the wall power disconnected, remove the rectifier board and have a look at the back (solder side) of pin 6 for a cracked solder joint or burnt trace to it. Post a picture of the back of the rectifier board if you can.

For reference, voltages at connector J1 on the rectifier board should be as follows:
Pin 1 = 0V (Ground)
Pin 2 = 0V (Ground)
Pin 3 = N/A
Pin 4 = N/A
Pin 5 = 7.3V AC
Pin 6 = 43V DC
Pin 7 = 5.4V DC
Pin 8 = 7.3V AC

#44 6 years ago

???

drewblaz

Inactive member

Quoted from Quench:
Looks like you've got no voltage on pin 6. With the wall power disconnected, remove the rectifier board and have a look at the back (solder side) of pin 6 for a cracked solder joint or burnt trace to it. Post a picture of the back of the rectifier board if you can.
For reference, voltages at connector J1 on the rectifier board should be as follows:
Pin 1 = 0V (Ground)
Pin 2 = 0V (Ground)
Pin 3 = N/A
Pin 4 = N/A
Pin 5 = 7.3V AC
Pin 6 = 43V DC
Pin 7 = 5.4V DC
Pin 8 = 7.3V AC

Okay im no expert but this looks bad lol

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#45 6 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

Most of that brown stuff is just solder flux. You can clean it with Isopropyl if you want.

I don't see any connection on pin 6 of J1, so it must be on the other side. Can you post a picture from the tops side of the board around J1?

#46 6 years ago

???

drewblaz

Inactive member

Quoted from Quench:
Most of that brown stuff is just solder flux. You can clean it with Isopropyl if you want.
I don't see any connection on pin 6 of J1, so it must be on the other side. Can you post a picture from the tops side of the board around J1?

One is the frontside of j1 and on is the backside

20180126_220947 (resized).jpg

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#47 6 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

The connection to pin 6 is on the top side, but I can't quite tell from that picture where it's from.

Suffice to say, you should measure zero ohms continuity between J1 pin 6 and TP5 on the rectifier board (wall power disconnected). If you're not sure how to test this, post a picture of your multimeter so we can tell you how to set it.

#48 6 years ago

???

drewblaz

Inactive member

Okay im pretty sure im testing continuity correctly and its not beeping or reading anything like it does when i test for continuity for fuses. The machine is unplugged.

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#49 6 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

You're measuring it correctly.
Since you're getting 0L reading, I think it's safe to presume who ever changed that J1 pin header on the rectifier board (looks like it was recently done) might have damaged the solder connection of pin 6 on the top side.

Can you also measure if you have continuity between TP5 and pin 9 of J3 on the rectifier board?

I think you mentioned you don't have a soldering iron - well it's time to get one

#50 6 years ago

???

drewblaz

Inactive member