(Topic ID: 233078)

1977 williams big deal not working


By Clizifer

1 year ago



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  • 48 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Clizifer
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#1 1 year ago

ok so i picked up a williams big deal pinball machine the other day. the machine is in fairly decent shape for its age, although it is currently not working. ive cleaned it all up and replaced any dead lamps, all new rubbers and everything cleaned inside and out. while cleaning i found no dead fuses, but there were a few switches that were shorted out, a few things bent out of place, fixed all that and now im at the point where the machine seems to be ready to play. upon turning it on it all lights up and seems like its waiting for a quarter. it will accept a coin and adds a credit to the credit wheel in the back box and i can press the start button ands start a game. when i start the game the motor in the bottom of the machine starts to run and some of the reset relays in the backbox starts to click but the machine doesnt spit the ball out. its just gets stuck at this position. curious what i should be checking next

#2 1 year ago

One additional piece of info we would need to start is do the score reels reset to zero and stop, do they continually turn, or do they stop/are they stuck on some other numbers.

Dave

#3 1 year ago
Quoted from Calipindave:

One additional piece of info we would need to start is do the score reels reset to zero and stop, do they continually turn, or do they stop/are they stuck on some other numbers.
Dave

they are all currently zeroed out. i havent seen them move at all

#4 1 year ago

Check score motor sw. 4B and/or this Outhole relay make/break.

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#5 1 year ago

How far is it getting in the reset cycle in the Big Deal manual?
https://www.ipdb.org/files/245/Williams_1977_Big_Deal_Instruction_Manual.pdf

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

How far is it getting in the reset cycle in the Big Deal manual?
https://www.ipdb.org/files/245/Williams_1977_Big_Deal_Instruction_Manual.pdf

when should the reset cycle happen? when i turn the machine on?

#7 1 year ago

at this point the machine can take a coin and add a credit but when i push the start button it stays on game over. when i add the credits the motor in the bottom cabinet moves and when i press the start button the motor in cabinet moves and the big reset solenoid on the bottom of the playfield resets. the scores are no longer resetting to zero and the drop targets on the playfield are not resetting

#8 1 year ago

Try manually advancing the score reels and then reset. I’d like to know if the reels turne and reset to zero and stop.

Dave

#9 1 year ago

ok, im able to get all the scores to advance and reset manually but the machine still never comes off game over. im also able to press the start button as many times as i have credits, like its not loading up a 4 player game. just resetting every time

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

when should the reset cycle happen? when i turn the machine on?

The answer to your question is in the first sentence of the reset cycle description in the manual.

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#11 1 year ago

ok ive got this a little further. im now able to add credits to the machine and start a game. heres a few things ive noticed:

machine does not light up ball in play number and the number of players does not change
it will continue to accept credits, but only plays as single player
ball does not eject up to the shooter rod
playfield gameplay all seems to function properly
game never ends, altho drained ball accumulates bonus on the score

#12 1 year ago

If the Game Over relay doesn't trip, check the Ball Count unit Disc for damage & cleanliness.

#13 1 year ago

ive been playing around with the relays in the cabinet seeing what triggers what and what does what.the only relay that ive never seen move and does nothing when i manually move it is the player reset relay

#14 1 year ago

The Player Reset relay should activate when the Ball Count unit activates, and should reset the Player Up unit when certain other relays are activated. See position 6 on the schematic for details.

#15 1 year ago

ok so after playing with the machine for a few hours today heres my update

the machine accepts credits perfectly fine and im able to start a game. the ball does not eject to play the game, but flippers and playfield is all active. i can manually press the outhole relay and the ball will eject. i can play the game and score points. when the ball drains the machine pays out my bonus points and resets for the second ball. the ball again is not ejected and the ball in play does not advance to the second ball, but if i press the outhole relay the ball in play advances and the ball is ejected. i can do this for all 3 balls and the game will click to game over. seems to me that whatever activates the outhole relay when the games ready to play isnt triggering it

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

i can manually press the outhole relay and the ball will eject.

Did you check the Outhole relay sw. I pointed out in post 4? Also check score motor Index-D.

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#17 1 year ago

where is the outhole relay sw located?? ive checked continuity in the wires from the motor switches back to relays and they all seem to be ok is there something else i can test?

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

where is the outhole relay sw located?? ive checked continuity in the wires from the motor switches back to relays and they all seem to be ok is there something else i can test?

On a lot of machines the outhole relay is actually near the outhole under the playfield.

#19 1 year ago

ya i found the outhole relay in the cabinet not sure which sw to check tho.

seems to be playing fine, if i flip the flippers a few times the ball eventually pops out and the ball in play changes. possible loose connection that triggers when the flippers shake the playfield??

#20 1 year ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

ya i found the outhole relay in the cabinet not sure which sw to check tho.

Go back to post 4 and check the make/break, which you can locate by it having three sw. blades and confirm by wire color. Also check that score motor sw. in post 16.

#21 1 year ago

success, there was a switch on the bonus reel that wasnt making contact that triggered the other relays after the reset. looks as if someone dropped the playfield closed when it was open. the bonus reel area needed to be realigned quite a bit to make everything work right. game works great now, just played a few games. only thing ive noticed is that when you go down either the heart or the diamond lane at the top of the machine both the heart and diamond relays close. the club and spade lanes work independently. im thinking there must be something shorting between them possibly another relay contact? lol

#22 1 year ago

ok so i played with it some more and what ive figured out is the heart and the diamond both score 500 points, where as the club and the spade advance the bonus. playfield says that all 4 should advance bonus. should they be paying 500 points as well or just advance bonus?

#23 1 year ago

The Club and Spade relays don't activate the 500 Point relay.

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#24 1 year ago

ok, i see there the heart and diamond relays tied together and activate the 500 point relay, but should the heart sw trigger only the heart and 500 relays and the diamond sw do diamond and 500 relay. right now either switch is activating both the heart and diamond relays as well as the 500 relay. i see the 3/5 ball adj jack there, does that tie them together during 3 ball and separate during 5 ball?

#25 1 year ago

just tested, works exactly like i said. game is working perfect then. only last issue is having more than one player. right now its not switching to a second player, it will take the credit tho

#26 1 year ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

its not switching to a second player

What do the Coin Unit stepup and reset solenoids do when this happens?

#27 1 year ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

only last issue is having more than one player. right now its not switching to a second player, it will take the credit tho

So it's saying "2 Players" but when P1B1 drains it does not go to P2? If so, check this circuit:

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#28 1 year ago

it currently accepts a second credit, but the player disc does not advance and it wont accept anymore credits after. if i manually advance the player disc it will play up to all 4 players with no issues. it just doesnt seem to be advancing when you press the start button

#29 1 year ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

it currently accepts a second credit, but the player disc does not advance and it wont accept anymore credits after. if i manually advance the player disc it will play up to all 4 players with no issues. it just doesnt seem to be advancing when you press the start button

The Coin Unit keeps track of how many players there are. Are you sure you're advancing the Player unit?

#30 1 year ago

the unit i advance is missing the sticker label, but the board itself says player up unit on the circuit board. like i said i can manually move it to 2, 3 or 4 players and the game works accordingly. it is just not advancing on its own when the start button is pressed.

#31 1 year ago

What does the Coin Unit do when you press the Credit Button for a second player?

#32 1 year ago

the lower coil on the coin unit is pulsed but it seems like its not powerful enough to move the wiper to the second player position. the unit resets tho, the other relay releases and it springs back. also i can only push the credit button the 2 times, after that it does nothing.

#33 1 year ago

If the Coin Unit stepup solenoid is too weak to move the wiper, it could be a mechanical problem but you can find out if it's an electrical problem by Inspecting and diagnosing this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features

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#35 1 year ago

You can identify a mechanical error by manually activating the coin unit. If it moves well then it's probably electrical.

#36 1 year ago

mechanically its working fine, i can manually move it myself and electrically it gets the pulse to advance, it just doesnt seem to be strong enough to advance the wiper. after that credit button no longer works for any additional players but you are able to play the single player game

#37 1 year ago

Clean the Coin unit solenoid plunger and plastic sleeve.
Try swapping with the same part # Player unit step up coil.
Maybe the pulse isn't strong enough. See post # 33.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/1977-williams-big-deal-not-working#post-4778631

#38 1 year ago

ok i will give that a try and see. thank you for all your help so far

#39 1 year ago

would it be worthwhile to replace the sleeve? they are fairly inexpensive i think

#40 1 year ago

the coil itself only has 1.7ohms of resistance. should it be replaced?

#41 1 year ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

coil itself only has 1.7ohms of resistance. should it be replaced?

No

#42 1 year ago

the other exact same coil in the ball count wheel has 2.9ohms

#43 1 year ago

when i push the button the coil receives the signal and pulses the wiper doesnt move far enough tho. if i manually move and try to press for a third player it doesnt do anything

2 weeks later
#44 1 year ago

ok so i changed the coil out and now im able to play 2 players, but it will not allow anymore than 2. is there something in the settings??

#45 1 year ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

able to play 2 players, but it will not allow anymore than 2

What do the Coin relay and Coin Unit do when you try to add the third player?

#46 1 year ago

nothing happens, the button does nothing when i push it for a third or fourth player. its like its only allowing it to be 2 player

#47 1 year ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

nothing happens, the button does nothing when i push it for a third or fourth player. its like its only allowing it to be 2 player

If the Credit Unit Reset solenoid doesn't activate when you press the Credit button, Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires, starting with the indicated switch on the Coin Unit.
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Be careful because this circuit runs on 120 volts

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#48 1 year ago

ok ill have a look at it. thanks

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