(Topic ID: 99549)

1977 Bally Eight Ball

By unnamed

9 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 19 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by barakandl
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 9 years ago

I am working on a 1977 Bally Eight Ball, The MPU board will randomly reboot and the fuse under the playfield in the lower right keeps blowing. Does anyone know what size fuse is supposed to be under the playfield? The machine I am working on has a 3 amp fast blow but I found a older post that refers to it as a 1 amp slow blow.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how best to troubleshoot this?

#2 9 years ago

C23 big blue capacitor on driver board may be the culprit on the rebooting issue.

#3 9 years ago

The fuse next to the flippers is supposed to be a 1 amp slo-blo.

#4 9 years ago

I looked that the photos I took of the board and don't see any big blue capacitors. There is a large silver one vertical and a orange one horizontal above a heat sink. I think that someone may have already changed it. Is there any other components that may cause the board to randomly reboot or should I just go ahead and replace the large silver capacitor?

#5 9 years ago

Have you checked for the proper voltage on your power supply rectifier? If I had a c23 I would replace it. You can get them for about 10 bucks at great plains electronics.

#6 9 years ago

The silver capacitor that is vertical is C23 and probably needs to be replaced in order to stop your resetting issues.

#7 9 years ago

As suggested, C23 is the most likely culprit, but also wiggle J4 on the MPU and see if the machine locks up or reboots. This connector should always be repinned.

#8 9 years ago

dothedoo is right. Only I would say ALL connectors need to be rebuilt. Then start troubleshooting if problems remain. 30 years is plenty long enough to expect them to work. Every game of this vintage I've worked on had numerous problems that magically went away after rebuilding connectors.

#9 9 years ago

Agreed. All of the .100 connectors become brittle and break instead of flexing like they should. J3 and J4 on the MPU are especially prone to failure due to corrosion. Replacing all of the header pins is equally important.

#10 9 years ago

While the filter cap and connector pins are old and probably needs replaced. You can't really just blame them for the resets without some testing.

Test the filter cap by putting your DMM on VAC. Measure across the cap leads. You should see a quarter volt or so or less. If there is more, the cap is not filtering enough ripple.

Next check... 5vdc / 12vdc. Check the 12v on the rectifier board and the 12v on the driver board. They should be within a few tenths of a volt.

Check the 5v on the driver board both test points. These should be identical.

Check the 5v at the MPU board. It should be at least 4.75v and within a few tenths of a volt of the driver board TPs

If the fuse under the PF by the flipper mechs is blowing, a solenoid is probably locking on at some point. When the software crashes, it could be possible that it locks on a coil.

#11 9 years ago

I checked all the test points and they are all within 10% of what they should be. I will get a new filter cap and some fuses with my next order. I think the fuse was blowing under the playfield because someone had put a 3 amp fast blow instead of the correct 1 amp slow blow.

#13 9 years ago

Thanks, I will do the board modifications and look over the components a bit closer next time I get over to look at the game.

#14 9 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

While the filter cap and connector pins are old and probably needs replaced. You can't really just blame them for the resets without some testing.~SNIP~.

This is absolutely true, but if the connectors aren't rebuilt properly you can chase intermittent problems for years, repining again and again as each connector pin dies.

It also makes lamps brighter and solenoids snappier and reduces heat at the connection point.

Rebuilding connectors may not affect his problem, but it will definitely help the game's stability.

#15 9 years ago

Measure resistance across the lugs on all of your coils, and don't forget the outhole coil. Flippers should be 3 ohms for the high power winding and 350 or so for the hold winding. All other coils should be at least 10 ohms. That 3A fuse should hold just fine if everything was ok so either there's a shorted coil or shorted driver transistor(s) on the SDB.

#16 9 years ago

The chime and flipper coils are the only ones that still work. Would a dead transistor cause all the solenoids to quit working or just make the fuse blow.

I figured I would find the problem by disconnecting one lead on all the coils then reconnecting them one by one until the fuse blows. This would lead me to the shorted coil or dead driver transistor.

Is it possible that the diode on a coil failed causing a transistor to short?

#17 9 years ago

Easier just to measure coil resistance since all the coils are daisy chained and you don't necessarily know by disconnecting coils that you are starting at the top and going "down the line".

A shorted transistor will cause a solenoid to lock on which will in a short time blow the fuse, which kills the rest of the coils. You have a split second to shut power off and save the coil/fuse. A shorted coil will blow the fuse immediately.

The flipper and chime coils are only protected by the fuse on the rectifier board, they are separate from the 1A slow blow under the playfield.

#18 9 years ago
Quoted from unnamed:

The chime and flipper coils are the only ones that still work. Would a dead transistor cause all the solenoids to quit working or just make the fuse blow.
I figured I would find the problem by disconnecting one lead on all the coils then reconnecting them one by one until the fuse blows. This would lead me to the shorted coil or dead driver transistor.
Is it possible that the diode on a coil failed causing a transistor to short?

Just had the same problem on a Mr. and Mrs. PAC-man I was working on. Rebuild the MPU and the first game I ran was great, then all the coils died and only the flippers were working. After screwing around with testing every fuse and test point trying to see where voltages were, it tested the voltage at the lugs and had current. Turns out the j4 connector on the solenoid driver board was bad (wiggled it while in coil test mode and everything started working). Try checking for cold solder joints and re-pin all the connectors like suggested.

#19 9 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

Rebuilding connectors may not affect his problem, but it will definitely help the game's stability.

True that. First thing that i do to a bally is fix the connector plugs. the early rectifier boards are always a mess. Single sided lamp, sound, driver boards have cracked joints all over.

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