(Topic ID: 276030)

1976 Royal Flush Freezing Issue - Help Me!

By Sw4mp7hing

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 10 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by jeffc
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 3 years ago

Wondering if anyone might have an answer for me here - my recently acquired Royal Flush machine will suddenly stop receiving flipper input for both flippers simultaneously and scoring any switch on the playfield mid-ball. Both the slingshots and the pop bumper also stop working. Once the ball drains, the game continues as normal and ejects the next ball, cycling appropriately. This appears to happen randomly but it is infrequent. It behaves like the machine has been tilted, but the playfield lights remain on and the machine hasn't moved at all.

Scoring/post-game reset otherwise works perfectly for all 4 players. All switches on the playfield work as expected. Fuses are properly seated and I double-checked all plug connections in the backbox which are seated fine. I can't seem to narrow down the issue since I have no experience with this kind of thing. Any idea what could be causing this?

#2 3 years ago

Hi Alex, Welcome to pinside!!

Intermittent problems can take a little more persistence to fix because we're never 100% sure when they're fixed.
With that said, Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features

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#3 3 years ago

Hi Howard, thanks for this and for the warm welcome! I just picked up a multimeter which arrives tomorrow so I'll attempt to give this circuit a once over if I can figure out how to read this thing!

#4 3 years ago
Quoted from Sw4mp7hing:

I just picked up a multimeter which arrives tomorrow so I'll attempt to give this circuit a once over if I can figure out how to read this thing!

Note that using jumpers is different than using a multimeter. The top link in @HowardR's post provides a how-to.

#5 3 years ago

Yup, I've got some jumpers on the way as well - hoping I can find the cause of this!

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from Sw4mp7hing:

I've got some jumpers on the way as well

Until then

For a switch to work 3 things are necessary:
1) When open, there should be a small space between the contact points (duh)
2) When closing, the long blade's contact point should push the short blade's contact point enough to move the short blade
3) The contact points should be clean, which they usually will be if #2 is happening

#7 3 years ago

Not sure jumpers are going to be of much help to you in this case, since the problem is intermittent and infrequent. I would just examine, clean, and adjust the 3 relay switches (H,Q & AX) in the circuit HowardR posted. You'll probably find one of them barely closing or having a loose contact.

#8 3 years ago

I checked all thre of these relays and they are functioning without error - all clean, no sparking, and triggering properly. Is there a way I can confirm which switches on each relay should be NC/NO? I haven't encountered the issue for a few days now, so I'm hoping my messing about reseating plugs and fuses in the machine somehow remedied it. Is that a normal thing - phantom issues just seemingly disappearing in EM's?

The only way I got the resulting flipper stall/scoring stall was through the game over relay triggering where the lights remained on, but I can't recall if the game over light switched on the backglass with the issue initially happened and that still doesn't explain the ability to continue the game after ball drain. I'll likely keep a log-book near the machine and if I encounter the issue again write down where the ball was and what's triggered on the backglass, hopefully that will help us narrow down the trouble spot!

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from Sw4mp7hing:

Is there a way I can confirm which swtches on each relay should be NC/NO?

Besides the schematic? NO sw. generally have an extra spacer.

#10 3 years ago

FYI, all switches on a relay must change state when the relay goes between its powered-on and powered-off states. With the game off, you can manipulate each relay by hand and visually inspect for all of their switches to change states. While you are in there you can look for switch contacts not fully opening or fully closing, dirty contacts, bent switch lug tabs possibly touching each other, switch wires with retreating insulation possibly shorting, stray wire strands not soldered or possibly shorting to other things, etc. When two contacts are adjacent or barely touching each other, that is not necessarily a good enough closure to pass current. You should see both blades move slightly, before one pulls away from the other to break contact. Also a closed switch may not be conducting if the contacts are dirty. It can be helpful to stick a small strip of white paper behind the switch blades in order to see things better.

Your schematic has a table listing the relays. The table columns are INDEX (where on the schematic the relay's coil is located), NO. (relay identifier), COIL NO. (part number for coil replacement), TYPE (relay type), CONTACTS (number of contacts), USE (function).

The 3 relays mentioned above have switches as follows :

H: 1A, 1B, 1C
Q: 3A, 2B, 1C
AX with AXR: 1A, 4B, 2C

A=normally open, B=normally closed, C=make-break.
So Q relay has 3 normally open, 2 normally closed and 1 make-break.

The H and Q are both "AG" type relays which are the most common and simple types. The AX is part of a 2-coil interlock relay type. These relay types require a second coil to fire to "reset" the relay. The AG relays "reset" simply by relaxing when power to them is removed. The reasoning for the interlock relays is that they can hold either state, even when power to the game is off.

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