(Topic ID: 276867)

1976 Buccaneer pinball gone wrong

By MH

3 years ago


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  • 37 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by MH
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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Gottlieb Score Motor 2 (resized).jpg
Buccaneer AX relay (resized).jpg
Buccaneer Tilt relay (resized).jpg
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#1 3 years ago

So I picked up a super clean Buccaneer a few weeks back, first I cleaned up the switches in the back box, then started working on the score reels ( I have a considerable amount of experience working on my El Dorado-back in 2015) It took some time to figure out that I had a broken bolt on my ball count stepper, Once I fixed the bolt- the stepper unit worked properly, I compared the stepper unit with my El Dorado stepper, The Buccaneer ball count stepper unit is set the same.

I cleaned the major switches on the bottom cabinet, I put the head on, then tested to see where we were at- If I manually reset the ball count stepper, I could play a game, all 5 balls then the end, It scored and worked for the most part...Then I continued to clean every switch in the game- that’s when things went south

If the ball count is in the 6th position, I believe that’s the end of game- when I hit the coin door replay button- I get the bank reset and the AX switch gives a little quick buzz- if I reset the stepper manually I get R energizing and staying on- Ax gives a quick buzz, play field lights come on for a second and it shoots the ball out to the plunger and it’s instant tilt- once the ball drains it does the same thing until it gets to the end of game on the ball count stepper- so the stepper is working, going through the 5 ball cycle....I’m sort of lost on what to do next

I don’t have a manual or schematic yet

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#2 3 years ago

I should add- when I manually energize ax- It resets all 4 score reels

#3 3 years ago

I usually hesitate to skip over parts of the reset sequence because you can't be sure what state the game is in when you start collecting symptoms. Some symptoms may be problems but some may just be odd behavior because reset hasn't completed and those only confuse things. In most cases I prefer to start from the beginning.

So if the game has credit and some score on the reels and it's not on ball 1, what exactly happens when you hit the replay button? Does the S/Start relay fire? What else happens?

/Mark

#4 3 years ago

Start relay fires- bank resets and Ax gives a quick buzz- this is what happens if the ball stepper is in the 5th and 6th position
With or without points on the score reels

#5 3 years ago

AX is an interlock relay with two coils. One coil (connected to the black and green-yellow wires) should get a pulse early in the reset sequence. The other coil (connected to black and orange-white-red wires) should get a 2nd pulse once all of the score reels have reset to zero. The score motor should start turning once the S/Start relay fires and should keep turning until the 2nd pulse to the AX Reset relay coil.

Assuming your AX relay is getting the 1st pulse, and is staying in its tripped position, one of its switches (red-white wire to yellow-red wire) should close and send power to the score motor which should reset the score reels.

Did you clean the switches on the AX relay? They have very tight tolerances are are easy to knock out of shape.

#6 3 years ago

Yes cleaned well, and set tight like my working El Dorado

#7 3 years ago
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#8 3 years ago

Ax relay^^^

#9 3 years ago

It would seem that Ax gets a pulse but doesn’t latch, what are the things that can cause this (This seems to be the issue in the start up, that was there before I handled it?)

Second- what did I do that’s causing the tilt- like I was saying before- I could play a game when I reset the ball count stepper manually- now it’s just tilts

All 3 slam/tilt switches are clean and making good contact.

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from MH:

It would seem that Ax gets a pulse but doesn’t latch, what are the things that can cause this

I could be binding mechanically, or maybe both coils could be firing simultaneously. If either coil bracket was loosened at some point the interlock mechanism could easily be out of adjustment. Can it hold the latched and tripped positions if you set it manually?

Quoted from MH:

now it’s just tilts
All 3 slam/tilt switches are clean and making good contact.

There are three anti-cheat/bounce switches that are normally closed. But the Tilt relay is tripped by three tilt switches that should all be normally open. All three connect an orange-white-red wire to a brown-white-red wire.

#11 3 years ago

I have 2 switches disconnected- the tilt bob and the one next to the tilt bob- then the last one is under the play field- and that one is open...I think these are the 3 that need to be open...On my El Dorado, I have the same 2 that I mention above- and it works fine? Is there some reason on the Buccaneer, where I have to have all switches connected?

#12 3 years ago

I have the tilt bob and rolling ball tilt switch disconnected on my El Dorado^^^

#13 3 years ago

The latch holds just fine when manually tripped

#14 3 years ago

A very clean machine! Hopefully you get it going. Just go over everything you touched again and manually actuate things. I try and do a few hours each day and I eventually solve problems. Good luck.

#15 3 years ago

Thanks- I’ll keep at it^^^

#16 3 years ago

Hooked the 2 tilt switches back up, so all 3 tilt switches are open, still tilts- I’ve gone through and checked- the main switches on the bottom cabinet, maybe 10 times now...I can’t see anything wrong with them?

#17 3 years ago

Have you checked the wire colors on the three tilt switches to verify that you're looking at the right three switches?
Buccaneer Tilt relay (resized).jpgBuccaneer Tilt relay (resized).jpg
If so, you could check the circuit with your meter. Unplug the game, set the meter to measure resistance and clip the probes to the orange-white-red and brown-white-red wires shown above. The meter should read an open circuit or some very high resistance. If you close any of the three Tilt switches the resistance should drop to an ohm or less. If you get a low resistance reading without closing a switch, or the resistance doesn't change when you close a switch you might have a short.

Quoted from MH:

It would seem that Ax gets a pulse but doesn’t latch

The pulse that should trip the AX relay should also do four other things:
Buccaneer AX relay (resized).jpgBuccaneer AX relay (resized).jpg
Do these other 4 things work?
- the JX relay resets, or tries to reset if it's already reset
- the Ball Count stepper resets
- the Replay unit subtracts a credit if it has credits
- the Total Play meter steps up one.

#18 3 years ago

This should be a big help, the ball count stepper functions, but doesn’t reset, none of the 4 things happen, but since the ball count stepper functions- can I rule this out as one of the four things that have to function- I order to get Ax to latch?

#19 3 years ago

The Ball Count may advance correctly but if it can't reset too it's not working completely.

Given that none of the four work the problem is likely that either the Motor 2C switch isn't closing, or that the switch on the S relay isn't closing (not just visually, but electrically).

This chart shows you how to find the Motor 2C switch:
Gottlieb Score Motor 2 (resized).jpgGottlieb Score Motor 2 (resized).jpg
It gives you the top view and side view of the Score Motor to identify which switch stack is 2C. Once you've found the right switch stack you'll need to refer to the wire colors in the schematic above to find the right switch.

#20 3 years ago

I’ve brushed up on the pin repair site and boy have I made some bush league mistakes- pretty darn sure I smoked my score motor yesterday- PBR rebuilds score motors? How much does that cost?

#21 3 years ago

Every time I see this thread I think of the 1976 Buccaneers. And yes, everything went wrong! 0-14

#22 3 years ago

Electrocute- could be a curse?

#23 3 years ago
Quoted from MH:

pretty darn sure I smoked my score moto

Unlikely. What are you seeing?

#24 3 years ago

Blew a fuse and I smelled burnt something- replaced a fuse and the score motor just hums.

#25 3 years ago

Your right- under closer inspection- I smoked the S coil.

#26 3 years ago

MarkG
Just to make sure, the rolling ball tilt has the orange and white and the brown and red wires- so does the tilt switch under the play field... The tilt bob just has 2 Orange and white wires.

On another thread, a game had 3 tilt switches and the tilt bob- for what looked like a total of 4 switches?

Does the Buccaneer have 3 open tilt switches plus the tilt bob? I’m going to test the resistance, but wanted to make sure I’m not missing a tilt switch, meaning- is there one I’m missing?

#27 3 years ago

The schematic doesn't specify where the switches are (see reply #17). The tilt bob and rolling ball tilt may be wired together with short jumper wires which might not match the schematic.

#28 3 years ago

Thx- Mark

2 years later
#29 9 months ago

I’m back for a second try…over 2 years later- the issue with the play field tilting and the power to the play field going off was the hold relay not energizing- I manually pressed it on and it lets me shoot the ball around, when I manually reset the ball count unit

When I press the start button- the bank resets and the start relay gets a big spark and the AX relay does a little bzzzt sound- and that’s all that happens. Everything looks good with the switches responsible for the reset and start up, but I’m at a loss for what’s not working- any further thoughts on what to check would be appreciated.

#30 9 months ago
Quoted from MH:

When I press the start button- the bank resets and the start relay gets a big spark and the AX relay does a little bzzzt sound- and that’s all that happens.

AX is an interlock relay so it should change state during reset. If it doesn't, check for mechanical problems and
Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-big-shot-repair#post-6305153
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Example of a pinsider actually doing this https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/red-baron-tech-question#post-5858156

#31 9 months ago

I’m confident I can do that after watching the video- I have to up my troubleshooting game…Thx Howard

#32 9 months ago

I need to make a long jumper wire today, what I have managed to do, the motor 2C switch wasn’t even making contact- I cleaned and adjusted the switch- now when I hit the start button, I get a spark from motor 2C and no more big sparks coming from the start switch- so I’ll jumper the others to track down the problem.

#33 9 months ago

Question- what switch on AX am I looking for- more like what wire color? From the S relay to motor 2C is right there on the snipet
Of the schematic, but those wire colors that are on S and motor 2C are not on the AX or ball count unit.

#34 9 months ago

So I went from the bounce switch and tested the S switch with the black and red wire- got the S to fire
Now- can I go from the black and red wire switch blade and test the blk and red wire switch on motor 2C?
And from there- take the Blk and red switch from motor 2C and touch the power side of the lugs on AX?

#35 9 months ago

Correction- the S relay in question doesn’t fire- I have the schematics now- what’s down stream of the S switch in question?

3 months later
#37 5 months ago

Update- so many things were wrong with this machine- a piece was put on backwards on the score motor- there were internal shorts in 1 or 2 of the switches- I called in a pro and now it’s playing good down at my vintage clothing booth- down at the Orange circle for anyone familiar with Southern California
So we have closure on this one.

IMG_2001 (resized).jpegIMG_2001 (resized).jpeg
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