(Topic ID: 268466)

1975 William's Big Ben score board / motor /extra ball issues

By jawsplow

3 years ago


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  • 19 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by jawsplow
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#1 3 years ago

I acquired the afore mentioned game and on a frequency of 12/15 games played, the score board goes nuts and starts rolling up and over and over the score reels. This happens after the ball drains and before the next ball emerges for play. I have disassembled and cleaned the score reels and believe I have the switches properly adjusted (Note:This is my first machine and first time problem solving a pinball problem.) When I turn the machine off and then back on, the score reels stop but the score motor keeps running. Turn it off and wait a while, I hear a relay or something inside the underside of the playing field "click" and the game is good to go again for about a dozen games. I don't know if it is relevant, but the relay on the coin door at times buzzes/hums excessively.
The game is set in "free ball" mode but there is never a free ball even when the sore/card on machine indicates it should occur. The same goes for when the special light come on and you are to get a free ball. You do get the 5000 point, just no ball credit.
Any help would be greatly appreciate and acknowledged!
JAWSPLOW

#2 3 years ago

Welcome to Pinside.

It would be helpful to know your location. Your English is telling me that you may not be from the U.S. This would be important to know because there are three Big Bens. If you have the U.S. version, you can download the manual and schematic here:

https://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=Big+Ben&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick#228

It is also recommended that you read up here to better understand how EM’s work before we can help you.

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=EM_Repair

#3 3 years ago

I am from America and live in State College, pa. The machine came with a manual and circuit diagram. I am a retired industrial arts shop teacher of 37 years, thus very mechanically inclined. I understand how relays work and have a good knowledge of electricity having wired house and built large and small solar systems.
Both your links are great! Thanks, I have them book marked.
At Pinside.com I found an excellent step by step tutorial on how to clean and adjust the exact score reels on this machine
. I completed that task with no sweat and the machine works the same as before.

#5 3 years ago

When you have multiple problems with a machine, you should choose one problem to troubleshoot first. Sometimes when you solve one problem, it will resolve some of the other problems with the machine.

Score reels spinning - the score reels are controlled by the score relays. Check all the playfield scoring features to see if a score switch is stuck closed or is out of adjustment.

Score motor keeps running - check all of the "primary" switches that send power to the score motor. Some simple checks: make sure the coin switches are not stuck in the closed position; make sure all the score reel switches are adjusted correctly at the 8, 9 and 0 positions.

Buzzing sound at coin door - a noisy coin lock out coil. This is a continuously energized coil, so the machine can accept coins using the coin mechs. Coil can become weak over time, relay coil plate might be damaged and/or spring is too tight. For now, if you aren't going to use coins in the machine, you can disconnect a wire from the coil to disable it.

Also, check out Clay's Pin Repair Web site for complete information about repair and maintenance for EM pinball machines:

http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm

#6 3 years ago

Does the bonus count down to 1000 when this happens?

Check the jones plug adjustment to make sure it is in 'extra ball', not 'novelty'

#7 3 years ago

Thanks everyone! I am going to look at the play field switches first. Often when this happens the only way to get it to stop is to raise the playing field. I'm now thinking if a switch gets stuck that knocks it loose. Great tip! I would have never thought of myself.
Yes the "bonus counts down to 1000" during the malfunctions, I think. Generally happens when a lot of score tallying is occurring. Jones plug is set for "extra ball".

#8 3 years ago

Just checked the playing field switches and they look great. Did discover some burned out light bulbs in the process and replaced them. Game much brighter for the exercise. Played a few games and the score board running up over and over happened again. And this time I noticed the bonus feature of the game was not counting down, but stuck on 5000. Goes from 10,000 to 1000 in 1000 increments. Played the game 10 more times and it worked perfectly with the exception of not giving an earned extra ball. Wolf, any additional thoughts on this since you asked about that feature? Thanks.

#9 3 years ago

sounds like the bonus unit isn't counting down properly. Possibly just needs cleaned. Step the bonus up by hand to 10,000 and then make it count back down and watch the mechanism to see if the solenoid is activating the ratchet properly. These stepper units are infamous for this when they're dirty.

#10 3 years ago

My score board running a muck problem appears to be solved. Several of you suggested seeing if one of the scoring features was stuck, and in a way you were correct. Mr. Wolf however, hit the nail on the preverbal head! The bonus counter gizmo worked but, was very burdened with a thick coat of some sort of black substance. When collecting the bonus points it some times made the loop and sometimes hung up and threw points up constantly. I'm surmising after 10 or 12 games that black substances heats up and gets tacky.? In any case, I took photos of the device as I disassembled it, cleaned it and put it back together and reinstalled in the machine. It clearly works with a lot more pop and zeal. I have 35 games on the machine since I reinstalled the device with absolutely no issues.
Now if anyone can shed some light on how the machine credits another play ball, I can hopefully fix that feature.
Wolf, I see you live in New Castle Pa. Do you ever come up to the Penn State football games? If yes, I'll make arrangements to buy you a beer.
Once again, thanks to everyone who made constructive suggestions!!

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from jawsplow:

how the machine credits another play ball

From the Big Ben manual. Do any of these work?
https://www.ipdb.org/files/232/Williams_1975_Big_Ben_Manual.pdf

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#12 3 years ago

Thanks for the reply. I have that manual and had seen the sentence. Number match is in off position, game is set for extra ball, but when scores are reached or special is gained, no extra ball is credit.

#13 3 years ago

Does the Extra Ball relay activate when this happens?
If not, what happens if you manually activate the Extra Ball relay?

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from jawsplow:

You do get the 5000 point, just no ball credit

is the 5000 a typo, or is that what you really get? according to the manual it should be 10,000 points.

thanks for the kind words. I'm just trying to return the favor of all the help I got when needed back in the day.

#15 3 years ago

Wolf, my mistake. Its 5000 at the first level and 10000 when in special (red light) 5000
9white light
0

#16 3 years ago

Don't know if relay activates as the playing surface if down. Put surface up and trip scores to simulate?

#17 3 years ago

Will try to activate the relay tomorrow and see what happens.

#18 3 years ago

I just located the device that keeps track of the ball in play in the score box. Has two solenoids; small one clearly counts down balls used. I manually worked the mechanism attached to the other one(larger) and it moves the device backwards. Schematic and owners manual indicate several relays actuate this relay. In coming days I will explore them in some detail. I checked the large solenoid on the ball counter back up device with a volt/ohm and it appears in good shape. So I'm assuming someone (relay/switch) upstream is not sending a message to the
"back the ball up counter. I cleaned the spider leg looking device and one of the switches located on it up a very little . Now "Game Over" illuminates in the back glass after the 5 balls are all used. I will be cleaning the entire device.
Shortly I should be able to ask some intelligent questions. Thanks again!

#19 3 years ago

My mom used to tell me there is no point to being dumb unless you show it. Several of you had asked if the game Jonas plug was in the extra ball position. I looked at the plug and at a quick glance it appeared to be set up in that fashion. While checking wiring last evening I ended back at that point of the ;"credit, extra ball, novelty selection plug. And came to discover someone had previously messed with this plug and placed not in "extra ball". Not in "credit'. But, between the two options. Moved it into the proper holes and problem solved with the added bonus that the relay down near the coin drawer quit that infernal buzzing.

Thanks to all of you!

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