(Topic ID: 235589)

1975 Triple Strike Various Bonus Issues


By battlefeverjnb

3 months ago



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  • 24 posts
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  • Latest reply 3 months ago by currieddog
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#1 3 months ago

So, I just got a Triple Strike machine and I've been attempting to discover its quirks and have noticed a few issues with the bonuses. With the drop target bonus, a lot of times after hitting Target A and B down they won't reset when they are supposed to. Every once in awhile they do, but usually they trigger and jump ever so slightly like they are going to pop up, but then immediately drop back down.

The other issue involves the 10 pin bonus. The lights that indicate the 3 strikes seem to not trigger correctly. The 1st strike seems to light up right, but the second strike doesn't light up when it triggers. The third strike also seems to work fine. At first I thought maybe I just needed to replace the bulb, but I've seen the 2nd strike light come on when it's resetting the bonus.

Only other advice I'm looking for right now is the best method to make sure the roll over buttons are sticking in a down position. The #3 pin seems to stick a lot.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Total noob here.

#2 3 months ago

Quick update: Solved the sticking #3 pin roll over button by just pushing the button down and spinning it in place a bunch of times. Must have had some gunk on the edges that scraped off in the process.

Regarding the drop targets, I was able to locate the A-B Drop Target Reset on the schematics, which I've attached an image of. The reset is part of the score motor, but I'm not fully sure what I should be checking for or if this is even the right part of the schematics I should be looking at or if I should be more focused on where the actual drop targets are. Any best guesses?

A-B Reset (resized).png
#3 3 months ago
Quoted from battlefeverjnb:

Regarding the drop targets, I was able to locate the A-B Drop Target Reset on the schematics,

Loosen the screws on the stack and clean the contacts with a swab and 91# rubbing alcohol to make sure they're clean and making good contact. Make sure everything is lined up when you re-tighten.

#4 3 months ago

Well done finding clues in the schematic. What you've shown is the score motor switch layout, or the physical arrangement of the switches on the score motor switch stacks. When the score motor turns and the cam rotates, the cam follower will drop into the gap in the cam and allow the two drop target switches to close. This will reset the target banks if the Target relay has fired too.

The same drop target switches are shown in the context of the circuit at about E10 on the schematic. If the C and D targets are resetting reliably then the switch for the A and B targets is likely either dirty or not gapped properly. Start by just gently cleaning the contacts of the A and B target switch (the upper of the two switches you've shown). With the power off you can manually rotate the cam until the switches close, then slip a dollar bill between the contacts and slide it back and forth a bit. That might be all it needs.

/Mark

#5 3 months ago
Quoted from battlefeverjnb:

The other issue involves the 10 pin bonus. The lights that indicate the 3 strikes seem to not trigger correctly. The 1st strike seems to light up right, but the second strike doesn't light up when it triggers. The third strike also seems to work fine. At first I thought maybe I just needed to replace the bulb, but I've seen the 2nd strike light come on when it's resetting the bonus.

If the bonus seems to add the appropriate number of points then the problem is likely just in the 2nd strike light circuit. The circuit could be intermittent for a few reasons:
- the bulb socket may be dirty - clean the insides with a small rotary tool wire brush, eraser or whatever else you have.
- the bulb socket may have a bad connection between the solder tab and the barrel. (If you can get it to work by twisting the barrel this is likely the problem.) You could try to clean the barrel and its solder tab, add a little flux and then solder them together. It may take more heat than a pencil type soldering iron can provide though.
- the bulb socket may have a bad connection between the tip and its solder tab. They could be soldered together too.
- the Bonus Unit contact board and/or wiper may need a cleaning. (see pg 17 of the game manual on ipdb.org for details). You can wipe those down with a cotton swab or rag with some mineral spirits or alcohol.
- if there's a jones plug between the Bonus Unit stepper and the playfield, the jones plug may need a cleaning.

/Mark

#6 3 months ago

Thanks for the advice everyone! I have the next two days off from work, so I will be giving these solutions a shot and reporting back.

#7 3 months ago

Update: So, regarding the Strike #2 light... I ended up pulling the bulb out and cleaning both the bulb and the connector. Now it seems to come on more often, and occasionally will turn out when a bumper jostles the machine a bit, kind of like it's knocking something into place. Not sure if that helps any. The bulb itself looked like it had seen better days, so maybe it's an issue with the bulb itself. I've already ordered new bulbs for other areas on the machine, so I'm going to see if a new bulb fixes things, but in the meantime, if any of this new information gives you any other solution ideas, I'm all ears.

Now, for the drop targets... I have no idea what's going on with those. I took the advice above and cleaned the contacts on the score motor, as well as any contacts attached the drop targets themselves. Didn't seem to do anything. Seems like they don't even bother trying to pop up anymore, but that seemed to be the case before I even cleaned them or messed with them. I've looked at the schematic where MarkG mentioned the E10 location, but I'm not sure where to actually locate this on the machine itself. I've attached the schematic location for reference. Could this be a relay issue, as it appears to have a relay on the schematic?

I've also noticed a pretty significant hum when the blue star bonus is lit. Not sure why.

AB Target 2 (resized).png
#8 3 months ago

If you suspect the bulb, swap it with another bulb and see if the problem follows the bulb or not.

I can try to locate those relays on mine later (the labels seem to be in excellent condition). I'll post a pic if I find them.

I also get a fair amount of hum from some of the "hold relays" like the star bonuses. I think that is pretty benign, but if you want to look at that, there are some tips here: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#buzz

#9 3 months ago
Quoted from battlefeverjnb:

Now, for the drop targets... I have no idea what's going on with those.

Check the coil itself for solid solders, etc. It should be under the playfield somewhat near the targets, and if not labeled you can track it down by the coil # on the schematic and by wire colors. Also possible that it's fried; you can check that with a multimeter.

#10 3 months ago
Quoted from battlefeverjnb:

I've looked at the schematic where MarkG mentioned the E10 location, but I'm not sure where to actually locate this on the machine itself.

Here are the relevant bits of the schematic diagram:
Triple Strike Target reset (resized).jpg
The bottom portion is the Score Motor chart that identifies all of the switches on the score motor. Note that the motor itself is on the right side, and the nine plastic cams on the score motor shaft are laid out in order with each of the switches on each cam shown. The two switches on the Long Dwell cam (in the red box) are normally open and close briefly each time the score motor makes a 180 degree turn. Those same two switches are shown in the schematic view in the top portion. One resets the A & B targets and the other resets the C & D targets. Since your C & D targets seem to be working we can assume that the C & D target switch on the score motor and the switch on the Target relay are working. That leaves just the A & B target switch on the score motor cam which may not be closing or may be dirty.

So the switch you want to investigate is the top switch (of two switches in the switch stack) on the 4th cam from the score motor. Does that help?

/Mark

#11 3 months ago

Mark,

I definitely cleaned up the correct area on the motor. I also tracked down the Coin Relay pictured in the other part of the schematic and cleaned that up as well, but I misread the schematic and for some reason thought that was the one connected to A-B, when it actually looks like it controls C-D. Maybe I'm reading the schematic wrong, though. So, now I'm searching for the Target Relay, which doesn't seem to be labelled on my machine anywhere. The schematic makes it look like it should be right near the Coin Relay, but the Coin Relay is way in the back and the only thing next to it doesn't appear to be the Target Relay, unless it's labelled wrong.

#12 3 months ago

The way to read the schematic for the two Target Reset solenoids is:
- the A & B Target Reset solenoid fires when the Score Motor 2B switch closes and either the Target relay switch closes or the Coin relay switch closes.
- the C & D Target Reset solenoid fires when the Score Motor 2A switch closes and either the Target relay switch closes or the Coin relay switch closes.

The Coin relay likely fires (and resets the targets) when you start a new game while the Target relay is used during a game whenever the targets need to reset. If your C & D targets reset successfully during reset and during the game that means that the Target and Coin relay switches are working correctly, together with the Score Motor 2A switch.

So if you cleaned the Score Motor switches and the A & B targets still don't reset reliably there's something else wrong. There are a couple of things you can try.

First if you have an alligator clip test lead, connect the solder lug of the C & D target reset solenoid with the grey-white wire to the solder lug of the A & B target reset solenoid with the blue-red wire. With the test lead in place do whatever you need to do to get the C & D targets to reset. If they reset, and the A & B targets reset too, that proves that the A & B target reset solenoid is ok and that it's not getting the power it needs through its own circuit.

The other thing you can try is to check the circuit that drives the A & B target reset solenoid. If you have a multimeter, unplug the game, set the meter to the lowest resistance setting and clip one test lead to the blue-orange wire connected to both score motor switches and the other test lead to the grey-white wire on the solder tab of the C & D Target Reset solenoid. Slowly turn the score motor cams by hand and when the two score motor switches close you should see your resistance measurement drop to something less than 1 ohm. That's what a good switch (the score motor 2A switch) looks like when it closes. Rotate the score motor cam a couple of times to convince yourself that you can tell the difference between an open switch and a closed switch with the meter. Then move one probe from the C & D Target Reset solenoid to the solder lug on the A & B Target Reset solenoid with the blue-red wire and repeat the test. Now instead of testing the Score Motor 2A switch, you're testing the Score Motor 2B switch. Does it behave and measure the same as the Score Motor 2A switch?

#13 3 months ago

OK, that confused me. Each target (A,B, C, D) has its own reset solenoid. The wiring diagram doesn't show it correctly. For A&B path, the wire runs from the switch to the B solenoid and there is a second wire on the same lug that runs to the A solenoid. They are wired in parallel. Likewise the other path is wired from switch to D to C with coils in parallel.

#14 3 months ago

Thanks for the clarification. I don't have access to the game. Since there are two coils in parallel (one for A and another for B) it's much more likely that there's still a problem with the Score Motor 2B switch or its wiring and very unlikely that both solenoids are the problem (assuming they behave the same).

#15 3 months ago

Another update: Got a multimeter, but it didn't come with alligator clips (saw the post too late and now I'm understanding why that is kind of essential), so I didn't get any real good testing done on that front. However, I was able to finally locate the target relay (wasn't anywhere near where I thought it would be and it wasn't labelled). So, with the machine on and with the help of a plastic stick, I was able to trigger the target relay, which reset the C&D targets, but alas A&B stayed down. Cleaned the relay, but that didn't help either. So, according to the manual, this target relay is supposed to pulse the A&B and the C&D reset coils. Since I bypassed the Score Motor in this situation, is it most likely the reset coils that are the issue, or something in-between? Not sure if I'm reading that situation correctly. I've attached the manual image. If PSchwisow can provide pictures of his reset coils, so I can compare, that would be awesome too!

Screen Shot 2019-02-09 at 5.57.24 PM (resized).png
#16 3 months ago
Quoted from PSchwisow:

The wiring diagram doesn't show it correctly. For A&B path, the wire runs from the switch to the B solenoid and there is a second wire on the same lug that runs to the A solenoid.

It sounds like that wire from the sw. to the B coil could be the problem. Cold solder, break, etc. Try doing a jumper wire.

This would not be the first time that a schematic was incorrect.

#17 3 months ago

The first image shows B target. There are two black wires attached to one lug of the solenoid. The other lug has two wires: BLU-R (blue with red tracer) that seems to match the wire coming off the switch on "long dwell", and what I can only guess was once grey with yellow tracer (not shown on schematic).

The second image shows A target. Because it's mounted with the bracket towards the front left corner of the playfield, I can only take a photo from an odd angle. That's the best I could get. One lug of the solenoid has two black wires (common), and the other lug has one wire that looks to be the same as the presumably grey with yellow tracer that came off of B.

I didn't take photos of C&D, but you can see the same pattern there. In that case the wire from the switch is GREY-W (grey with white tracer), but the wire from C to D seem to be the same grey with yellow tracer. (Maybe they picked the same wire to interconnect both pairs since it was not specified on the schematic?)

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#18 3 months ago

Ok, quick update: I got some alligator clips for my multimeter (which are a massive help BTW, so thank you for the suggestion Mark!) and did some testing. During a continuity test, I noticed that I was getting strong readings from pretty much every connection except for when I tried to connect to the yellow and brown wire from the first picture in PSchwisow's post above. I've attached an image to give everyone the exact spot I tested without any confusion. I would occasionally get the continuity to work, but sometimes it required some movement of the wire before it actually beeped. Every other wire beeped immediately and without any issues. So, now I'm trying to figure out what that wire actually triggers. The color is... questionable, so I don't know if I am finding the right one on the schematic, therefore I'm not sure if this wire is even involved in the reset of the drop targets. I'm getting some jump wires tomorrow, but in the meantime, I would like any opinions on this matter or maybe a clue as to where to attach the other end of that jump wire to test things.

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#19 3 months ago
Quoted from battlefeverjnb:

During a continuity test, I noticed that I was getting strong readings from pretty much every connection except for when I tried to connect to the yellow and brown wire from the first picture in PSchwisow's post above.

Can you elaborate? Which pairs of points were showing continuity?

A multimeter might beep to indicate continuity between two points for anything that measures 20 ohms or less (depending on the meter). Generally though continuity isn't what you're trying to establish because there may be multiple paths between two points in a given circuit. Continuity might mean that the meter sees a path between two points that goes through a solenoid or even the transformer that happens to measure less than 20 ohms.

What you're looking for in this case is a direct connection between two points, not a path through a solenoid for example. A direct path will measure very low resistance, about the same resistance that you measure when you touch the two probes together (usually less than an ohm). Measure much more than that and you're not seeing a direct connection but some other path of higher resistance. A beep can't distinguish between those two.

If you want to use your meter to figure out why your A and B Target reset solenoids aren't firing please reread the last part of reply #12.

#20 3 months ago
Quoted from MarkG:

If you want to use your meter to figure out why your A and B Target reset solenoids aren't firing please reread the last part of reply #12.

Ok, so, I just ran the test using the score motor as you mentioned in reply #12 and definitely got some information from it. When connected the the C&D target reset solenoid, I was consistently getting readings of about .2 ohms when the score motor switches close. When I switched to A&B, though, I was getting readings of around 2.2 ohms, so it definitely wasn't dropping under the 1 ohms. I guess my next question is, what does that indicate exactly? Does that clarify where the issue may or may not be originating from? Sorry for all my newbie questions. This is a great learning experience and you guys are helping a lot! I greatly appreciate it. This community is awesome!

#21 3 months ago

The most likely reason is that the contacts of your score motor 2B switch (the one that measures 2.2 ohms) are dirty. So even though the switch is closing, and the contacts are touching, they're not making a good electrical connection. Try cleaning the contacts by sliding a dollar bill or flexstone between the contacts a few times while the switch is closed.

#22 3 months ago

Ok! Solved the drop target issue! I cleaned the contacts on the score motor again and then connected the multimeter again to test it. I got the same results, so I pushed down on the switches to see if the contacts were just not touching enough, and yup, that was the issue. I bent the one switch up slightly and that fixed it. Whew! I'm pretty satisfied with the machine at this point. There are a few other lingering issues I will need to deal with that don't impact gameplay, mainly just lights not coming on, but I'll save that for another day. Time to enjoy the machine for a bit! Thanks to Mark, PSchwisow, and currieddog for the assistance! I learned a lot! If anyone has any idea on how to find a backglass for this machine or get one reproduced, let me know!

#24 3 months ago
Quoted from battlefeverjnb:

how to find a backglass

I had good luck with BGResto, but you might also want to put a wanted ad in the classifieds here.

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