Step one, check fuses. (By this I mean remove them from the game with the power off and check them with a multi-meter.) Step two, if you can, check for power at the non-working solenoids. If the fuses are all good and the solenoids have power at them it's not a rectifier problem.

Do you have the schematics?
Are you comfortable reading them?

Generally, power to those coils is switched by one or more switch pairs shown on the far right hand side of the schematic. Perhaps on the S relay...I don't have the schematics for that game. I'd guess that the switch is dirty or maladjusted.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

I have a working Spin Out. If you need me to check anything for you on my game am happy to do it.

G

After the reset completes, does the ball kick out to the plunger?

The ball needs to kick out to the plunger, so that it can close the ball trough switch on the way. The ball trough switch closing causes the Ball Count unit to step once to reach Ball 1.

The zero position switch on the backside of the Ball Count unit then closes, which activates the playfield features (the 6th position switch also needs to be closed).

So this is probably the main problem to debug.

But just to check, if you manually flick the ball over to the plunger, then does the Ball Count unit advance and the game displays Ball 1 on the backglass? And if so, then do the flippers and such work?

If not, then try manually stepping the Ball Count unit once (this is the stepper in the backbox).

Incidentally, there is no rectifier on a '75 Gottlieb Spin Out, and no DC. It's all AC.

Pinball Resource will have the schematic (although the ordering process is not likely what you'd expect; it's 'old school' - call them, pay with a check).
http://www.pbresource.com/mansch.html#manaval

(Copyrights are still held and active on the Gottlieb paperwork, so they're not generally available online.)

Worked, meaning the playfield now was working OK?

Have you checked the outhole switch?

Hi
have you checked "ChrisHibler, post-3: Power to the playfield-switches / bumpers / kickers / coils is controlled by a switch on 1 or 2 or 3 relay" ? The Tilt-Relay and / or "Gtb-AX-Relay" or "Switch-on GAME-OVER-RELAY" (more Relays ?). Want to look in the schema (see post-3) and look: WHAT switch on Game-Over-Relay cuts the "Main Line" ? Greetings Rolf

Also, on the backside of the Ball Count unit is a switch stack with two switches on it. When the unit has stepped once from the reset position, both should be closed. Make sure those two switches have clean contacts and that the switches are in fact closed. The top switch is the "6th position" switch, and it needs to be closed in order for the ball return to kick out, and both need to be closed for the playfield to work.

Sounds like game over relay either isn't energizing. Might check out hole switch too just in case.

Hi Brandon
Here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottleib-spirit-of-76-schematic -> post-4 / post-7 they say "Steve Young at Pinball Resource has the rights on Gottlieb papers" from http://www.mondialgroup.com/gottlieb.htm . I strongly advice: Get yourself a schema (and a manual) - because we are not allowed to "publish" copies (I would like to know about "showing a snippet in a forum - YES or NO ?"). I live in Switzerland (not USA) / I do not have a schema of "Spin Out".

When flippers / bumpers do not work: A Switch on Tilt-Relay is "faulty-open" or a Switch on a "Relay involved at the end of Reset-Cycle" is "faulty-open" (((the relay pulls - but the switch is faulty))) - or a relay is "faulty-pulling" (or a relay is "faulty-not-pulling"). OR: a wire has broken-off from / at a "Solder-Lug" / contact-points of the switch are oxidated (no current can flow).

Lets look in schema "Big Deal" (ipdb.org , to see the basic): http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=245 -> schema-E-14 wire "BLACK" comes from the transformer, "C-14" is (also horizontal) wire "YELLOW" (You see the text at "C-2") - the other connection to the transformer.
Relays and units (and switches to control) are in-between "BLACK" and "YELLOW" - they pull when current flows.
Schema-E-15 is a "Switch on Game-Over-Relay", "E-15" is a "Switch on Reset-Relay", E-16 is a "Switch on Tilt-Relay".
(In the schema) To the left of these Switches there are relays / units for "Reset" - to the right of these Switches are "Playfield-Goodies". At "Game-Over" or when You make a "Tilt" or at "Start of a Game - Resetting": Bumpers and Flippers shall not work.

Gottlieb pins are wired somewhat different. When I look at the schema of my "Surf Champ" I would check "Relays faulty pulling / Relays faulty not pulling" and "Switches on relays faulty-open", the relays: Q-Game-Over-Relay, AX-Reset-Control-Relay, H-Tilt-Hold-Relay, (T-Tilt-Relay).
From the schema I would get "information on colour of the wires" and: "Is it a simple-Switch or a (3 blades) Make-and-Brake-Switch" (and: is the "Switch to look at" " one-out-of-3-switches / ...4... / ...7...?).

I like to work (test) witch "Jumper-Cables" - for this kind of testing: SCHEMA IS NEEDED.

Brandon, maybe some pinsider with a "Spin-Out-Schema" tells You exactly where to look - or You must get Yourself a schema.
(I do have a schema to all of my pins - exception: "Freshie": http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=954 , so: If somebody (reading here) is a proud owner of a schema "Freshie" - I would like to get a personal message ...) Greetings Rolf

No, that's the ball trough switch. The outhole switch is the switch that closes when the ball drains and sits in the outhole (aka 'ball return', as Gottlieb calls it on the schematics).

Yes, but that's after stepping it more than once, right?

Have you tried cleaning the contacts on these switches? (Flexstone, or very fine sandpaper in a pinch.) Even though they physically close, if the contacts are dark and covered in oxidation, they also won't make electrical contact. I would suggest cleaning/burnishing those switch contacts next.

If you manually close the outhole switch, the 'O' relay should energize and stay locked on, the score motor should run 1/3 rev, and the Ball Return coil should fire, kicking out the ball to the plunger.

The 'O' relay will release after the 1/3 score motor rev. If you just manually activate the 'O' relay, it should 'stick' on by itself while the score motor runs. If it does not, then that suggests there's a problem with the lock-in switch on its switch stack (which is the switch with the wire that runs to the coil).

The ball not kicking out is one problem; the playfield not coming alive after stepping the Ball Count unit once is another problem. So both need to be solved, and are likely due to dirty switch contacts.

Hi Brandon - hi Dirtflipper
I am confused - is "Spin Out" an Add-A-Ball pin ? You are talking about "Ball Count (Unit)" ? To me the unit (Brandon shows in post-16) is a "Replay-Unit" - one switch to open at "Maximum", two switches to open at "Zero".
Brandon, is Your unit -> here: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2286&picno=65241&zoom=1 -> Front wheel of the car -> I see "3". - Is Your Unit such an "Replay-Counter" ?
Or do You show the backside of the "Player-Unit" -> http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2286&picno=29707&zoom=1 -> left-bottom-corner -> the bakelite disc Unit ? Greetings Rolf

Nope, it's a replay game.

Yes, talking about the Ball Count unit (which has a wiper disc on the front of it). The backside looks nearly identical to a traditional Replay (aka credit) Unit, and does have the same switch stack configuration. The one subtle clue that this is the Ball Count unit is that the 6th position post on the cam is a fixed post (i.e., is not a slotted screw). A traditional Replay Unit cam uses a screw there that can be moved to limit the number of replays to different values.

However, Spin Out uses a 'half-moon' credit unit, so it won't have the traditional style of Replay Unit available for a picture.

Since this is a single-player game, that is actually the Ball Count unit, not the Player Unit (only the 2 and 4-player games have a Player Unit).

Nope, it's the Ball Count unit.

Only those four switches for now: the outhole switch, and the three on the backside of the Ball Count unit.

For completeness, I'll also mention that there are Jones plugs in the path as well (playfield to score motor board; playfield to backbox), so making sure those connections are clean and that they're fully seated is worthwhile too.

Not for the problem at hand.

Guys, in that pic provided, is that double switch with the spacer in it missing the outer part of the blade?

The only thing I see missing is the fiber board spacer chunk (which is broken off). The switch blades look OK that I can see.

Hi Brandon
You write "so far no change at all" - I assume "all that is written in your post-1 is (still) valid".

Your "Sink-Hole-Switch" - is it the Switch that is closed when the ball is in the Outhole ? (You loose a ball -> the ball rolls between the flippers (Outhole) -> the pin should give a new ball into the "Shooter Lane").

Did You get Yourself a schema ?
I recall my post-17: "When flippers / bumpers do not work ..." ... "I would check ... Q-Game-Over-Relay, AX- and H-Tilt-Hold- and T-Tilt- Relay (words from my Surf Champ schema). Greetings Rolf

Did you try these?

Good, that helps. 'O' is clearly not locking on, so the hold path to it has an open. And to confirm, that 'O' relay does not fire by itself when the ball drains into the outhole, right? That would indicate the open occurs in the logic shared with the hold path.

Does Spinout have an 'A' relay that is an 'interlock' style of relay? (two coils, two armature plates, that click back and forth, locking the other in.) Should be on the bottom board and will look like two relays mounted together at an angle.

If so, my next guess would be that a normally closed switch on 'A' is either not closing or is dirty, preventing the path to 'O' from working. But this path also requires the 6th pos. switch on the Ball Count unit to be closed, so that's still suspect too.

Looks like Spinout has 'AX' instead (which is in the backbox, bottom of that relay bank). (Gottlieb called it 'A' on some earlier games, and placed it in the bottom board.)

Tighten the switch stacks and make sure it's in the unlatched position (the plastic ladder will be up and away from the coil). You can also gently test the operation (with the power off) by pressing each of the armature plates and seeing how it latches and unlatches. Leave it unlatched. Each switch should either open or close as it latches/unlatches.

A switch there needs to be closed when it's in the unlatched position in order to let 'O' activate.

I have found using a test light to 'test' open or closed contact of switches to be very effective-sometimes the eye is not good enough.

testlamp1.jpg

Since that AX is in the backbox, the signal also has to travel through one of the Jones plugs to reach the O relay. You can you your meter (or other continuity tester) and check for continuity back to O.

Another possibility is simply that the coil in O is not working. Could be a wire popped off a lug, or the coil is bad. Have you checked the coil?

Does that mean you checked its resistance, or ran voltage to it, or ?

You would typically unsolder one terminal, and then measure the resistance across the terminals.

An alternate test would be to run a jumper wire to that coil, bypassing the control logic, just to see if the coil will energize. But that would require understanding just the right spots to attach the jumper wire (and also have an alligator-clip jumper wire handy).

This has been a long thread.
Could you recap where you are on this problem?

Have you tightened all switch stacks?
Have you sanded each of the "Jones Plugs"?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

Apart from those issues covered in my resto thread nothing specific.
After reading your thread I am a tad confused by information overload, however from what has been stated I would concentrate on the jones plugs connections & the AX relay. As I mentioned earlier I suggest you not rely solely on the 'eye' for contact/non contact of switches particularly on the AX relay. I have found a test light invaluable to get it right. The tolerance either way on the AX relay is often very fine.
Also I have found quite often that past adjustment particularly of make/break switches has realigned contact leaves in a way that makes proper switch adjustment improbable. In these cases it is necessary to get those switch leaves back to 'factory setting' or in other words straight to enable proper adjustment.
As I have mentioned in other threads in any diagnosis I found the start routine set out by Dirt Flipper to be invaluable:

"Maybe the thing to do is to begin at the beginning:
- manually reset all score reels to zero
- manually reset all relay banks
- unlatch any interlock relays
- have a credit on the credit unit
- place the ball in the outhole
- press the start button
What happens?"

Suggest you try that routine to table the result.