(Topic ID: 216188)

1975 Gottlieb Super Soccer Bonus Score Problem

By mstire

5 years ago


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  • 24 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 days ago by woz
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 5 years ago

My Game seems to operate correctly when set on 3 ball play.

When set to 4 ball play there are 13 switches (including the pop bumpers) that award a bonus ball in the animated back box every time they are hit.
They should not award a bonus ball unless they are lit. This happens on all players in 5 ball play.

To make matters worse when the first ball is launched and hits one of the bonus switches the animated bonus unit cycles continuously adding balls and
only stops when I turn the machine off. This doesn't happen all the time but is something that just started happening.

I've read everything I can find on the net about Gottlieb bonus issues but have found nothing like this one.

I have the schematics but don't understand them well. I have closely looked at all the relay switches, control bank switches and player unit switches
for proper gap and contact. Did the same with the score motor. Seems there must be a closed switch somewhere that shouldn't be. I don't know where else to look.

Other than this problem the game functions beautifully.

I hope someone here can push me in the right direction.

#2 5 years ago
Quoted from mstire:

... when the first ball is launched and hits one of the bonus switches the animated bonus unit cycles continuously adding balls and only stops when I turn the machine off ..

Does it also give 500 points for each added bonus when this happens? There's a 500 Points and Add Bonus Unit relay.

#3 5 years ago

Just double checked. It's giving 100 points as it should when not lit but adding a bonus ball.

#4 5 years ago

If you're getting bonus balls and only 100 points, first check whether the 100 point score unit is quickly pulling in and letting go and whether the 500 Points and Add Bonus Unit (G) relay is activating when this happens. If the 100 point score unit is quickly pulling in and letting go and the G relay isn't activating then there's a short in this Black&Red wire because the Add Bonus unit coil should only be able to get power through the G relay. You might check to make sure your Jones plugs are plugged in correctly. If they are, you'll have to trace this Black&Red wire to see where it's getting power.

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#5 5 years ago

Thanks Howard. The 100 point (M) relay quickly pulls in and releases and at the same time the (G) relay pulls in and releases. One ball is added and 100 points is added to the score.
I double checked the Jones plugs and they are correct. Does this rule out the blk and red wire at the add bonus unit?

#6 5 years ago

Still trying to figure this out. Has anyone else got any ideas for me to try? Should I still try to find a short on the blk & red wire? I can find the blk & red wire on the Add Bonus coil but the schematics show it going from the coil to the(G) relay and there is no blk & red on the (G) relay.

What am I missing? I'm sure it's crystal clear to a lot of you but certainly not me.

I blocked this switch on motor 4B and that stopped it from giving a bonus ball but also stopped it from giving bonus balls when it's supposed to.

Any help is much appreciated.

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#7 5 years ago

If the 500 Points and Add Bonus Unit (G) relay is activating when you shouldn't be getting bonus, check these switches, especially the ones on the playfield. You can also try temporarily unplugging the playfield to find out if the problem is originating there.

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#8 5 years ago

Thanks for your patience Howard. Blocked all of the switches you circled for the playfield, no luck. I've been paying particular attention to the solder lugs on all of the relays to make sure nothing is shorting.All switches are open on the (G) relay while at rest. Same with (D) relay with exception of one normally closed. I took the (I) relay out and cleaned the little board. It should be good. The (J) spinner relay has all switches open at rest.

There's a lot I don't understand like how are the pop bumpers involved? As far as I know they should never give bonus and why is 3 ball play not affected?

I unplugged the playfield but don't understand how that can help diagnose because I need to activate the switches to see if bonuses are being awarded.

Please don't give up on me Howard. You're the only one helping me.

#9 5 years ago

mstire-do you have the score motor switch card? If so, can you scan and post?

#10 5 years ago

I don't have it with me at work but I can get it posted in about 3-1/2 hrs. I don't have the actual card but assuming the info on the schematics is the same.

I spent some time looking at the score motor switches and solder lugs and didn't find anything unusual but didn't really know where to focus my attention.

#11 5 years ago
Quoted from mstire:

I spent some time looking at the score motor switches and solder lugs and didn't find anything unusual but didn't really know where to focus my attention.

Schematic doesn't have that info. Looking at which sw. does what, good contact, cleanliness, etc.

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from mstire:

I unplugged the playfield but don't understand how that can help diagnose because I need to activate the switches to see if bonuses are being awarded.

Good point but I thought of another reason to try that (below)

Does the 500 Points and Add Bonus Unit (G) relay stay locked and award bonus after bonus when you activate it manually? If it also does that with the playfield unplugged, check this circuit, especially the indicated switch on the motor.

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#13 5 years ago

Are both sw. closed, clean, and making good contact?

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#14 5 years ago

Howard, with the playfield plugged in when I manually activate the (G) relay it immediately lets go after awarding a ball and 100 pts. Same if playfield is unplugged. Shouldn't it be awarding 500 pts?

In checking your circuit at mtr 2B one switch has red & wht plus org & blk going to it this switch is open. The other switch has a yel plus wht & org? (can't really tell what this color is. Looks more like flesh) This switch is closed. According to the schematics shouldn't the N/C switch be yel plus red & wht?

Sorry, ran out of time on my break and this is all I had time to check out. Will investigate motor 1C and GX switch. after I get off work.

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#15 5 years ago
Quoted from mstire:

when I manually activate the (G) relay it immediately lets go after awarding a ball and 100 pts.

The G relay should lock in for a complete 1/3 turn of the motor. If it doesn't, diagnose this circuit with alligator clip jumper wires.

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#16 5 years ago

Sadly still no progress. Curried, I double checked the (GX) relay switch and it's closed and making good contact. Same with the switches on motor 1C.

Howard, I was mistaken about the (G) relay. It does continue 1/3 revolution before it unlocks.

While troubleshooting I stumbled across something that may be note worthy. If I hit any of the 10 point switches in any sequence 10 times it awards a bonus ball. That shouldn't be happening.

#17 5 years ago
Quoted from mstire:

Howard, I was mistaken about the (G) relay. It does continue 1/3 revolution before it unlocks.

What's the 100 Point relay do after you activate the G relay? Does it activate once quickly and then let go? Or does it lock on? Or???

#18 5 years ago

Exactly this. Activates once quickly then lets go. Score motor continues 1/3 rev.

#19 5 years ago

If the 500 Points and Add Bonus Unit (G) relay locks on for a full 1/3 motor revolution, while the 100 Point (M) relay activates quickly once before letting go, the fault is in this circuit, probably the switch on the G relay.

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#20 5 years ago

Howard, I'll have limited time to work on my problem next couple days but first chance I get I'll desolder the YEL-BL-RED wire at the (M) relay and the (G) relay and jump it with a separate wire.

Will report my results as soon as I can.

#21 5 years ago
Quoted from mstire:

Howard, I'll have limited time to work on my problem next couple days but first chance I get I'll desolder the YEL-BL-RED wire at the (M) relay and the (G) relay and jump it with a separate wire.
Will report my results as soon as I can.

Since we suspect lack of continuity, there's no need to desolder the existing wire. Use Alligator clip jumper wires.

5 years later
#22 7 months ago

Was there ever a solution for this? I'm having the EXACT issue, but ONLY on ball 1 and 2... ball 3-5 score perfectly.

To confirm the symptoms:
- All 100 point switches adding a bonus ball...
- The 10th 10 point switch adds a bonus ball (because it triggers 100pt reel, get it?)
- All 500 point switches (lit targets, lanes, and Mystery hole) are scoring 100 points instead of 500, but adding the bonus ball!
- 1000pt reel moves and scores correctly when adding bonus.

The CORRECT lanes are lit on each ball, so I suspect it's maybe a relay for ball 1 and / or 2 specifically, or a positional error with the ball counter?

** NOTE: I suspect original poster may have missed this - the awarding of the 100 pts, on the balls where it's having the issue, the reel lags... like almost as if it's sticky, or trying to turn. It's not a clean and crisp movement to the next number... in case that helps direct some ideas.

I'll be digging into it more tomorrow as well, so if I figure anything out, i'll be posting a solution here

#23 7 months ago

Check the AX, BX and CX relay contacts are not bunched up. If any one of them is bunched up, there is a dual path for all the 100 point switches to operate both M and G relays at the same time. When M operates it would be locked in via the G lock-in switch (thru the bunched up AX,BX,CX contact) preventing the Motor 1A (500 point) pulses from having any effect.

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7 months later
#24 4 days ago

I finally got to visit edwood last night to help fix the issue. As I suspected the AX relay contacts were shorted...sort of I spent about 15 minutes closely inspecting the AX, BX and CX relays on the reset bank but couldn't find any issue with the contacts or wiring. I then checked that rollover switches not really expecting to find a short that could cause the problem and found this. Can you see the problem?

A previous owner had for some unknown reason wired the #1 and #2 rollovers together thus creating the situation I had predicted in my previous post. The offending wire was removed, and the game played perfectly now in 5 ball mode!

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