(Topic ID: 217596)

1973 Williams (Segasa) Travel Time - possible reset issue?

By Smerk

5 years ago


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  • 15 posts
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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Smerk
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#1 5 years ago

Hi to all,
I've been a long time browser but have finally a reason to post. My first pinball (Like a kid again).
Anyway, as usual my 'bargain' with a few minor problems has me stumped. The previous owner said it hadn't worked for a few years. Here's where I'm at so far -
I replaced a blown fuse, hit the left flipper and got some lights.
Manually added credits (in back box), hit new game and score motor continually ran. Score wheel 'zero' contacts were dirty/no contact and one wheel put on incorrectly. All scores zeroed as they should and after cleaning all 'time clock unit' contacts it kicked a ball out. Managed a few half games with glass off and checked off items needing looking at - Adjusted pop bumper contacts, fixed weak flipper, re-soldered a couple of dry joints etc...The game worked excluding stopping the clock, a couple of the stand up targets and the shooter? between flippers.
In my wisdom I thought if cleaning contacts helped everything so far it couldn't hurt to do them all. I stripped it down and did all of them. Cleaned it all out (dog hair) and replaced all lights for #47s. No aerosol products have been used and I'm using a well worn points files to clean contacts.

Now when I flip the toggle switch it goes straight into reset (like when I hit the left flipper), lights on etc.
If I start a new game it resets score wheels as normal but the time clock counts up and then all the way back to '0' and that's it. This to me seems a separate issue than the reset problem.
So I've rechecked everything I cleaned and checked continuity of all contacts. I'm a mechanic and read auto schematics better than English but I'm struggling reading one for this. It doesn't help wire colours are faded, some relays aren't labelled and my 'newbie' eye can't identify what items are called...any ideas where to start?
Thanks for any help in advance, Steve.

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#2 5 years ago

Welcome, Smerk !

Quoted from Smerk:

In my wisdom I thought if cleaning contacts helped everything so far it couldn't hurt to do them all. I stripped it down and did all of them

Sorry but that was a mistake. This forum is full of posts from people who tried shotgun cleaning & adjustments, and caused more problems than they were originally trying to solve.
What to do instead: Slowly and carefully diagnose one problem at a time and then fix only that.

Quoted from Smerk:

some relays aren't labelled

Try getting one of the other owners of your game to post photos of their relay labels.
https://pinside.com/pinball/archive/travel-time-williams/owners
https://pinside.com/pinball/archive/travel-time/owners

Is the Williams schematic the same as yours, including wire colors?
http://www.ipdb.org/files/2636/Williams_1973_Travel_Time_Schematic_Diagram_continuous.pdf

#3 5 years ago

Hi Smerk
You write in post-1 "I toggle-on and the pin goes straight into 'Reset' - like when I had hit the left flipper (before I did the cleaning) - lights on etc". Hmm - to me "going into Reset" means the motor does run and the Score-Drums do reset (means they step forward towards Zero) --- in a running Williams from that time: Pressing the left flipper-button simply makes the Lock-Relay to pull-in (stays pulling forever) - Lights are turned on. Please write a bit more about the "etc."

I see You have the Segasa Pin - does Your schematics has marked "Segasa" somewhere on the paper ? ipdb has an excellent PDF of the Williams: http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=2636 --- You may have to make You an copy down to Your computer - so You then can look at ? Greetings Rolf

#4 5 years ago

Thanks for the quick responses.

HowardR - yes I read similar posts, but thought a clean would be ok. Only way to learn I guess. I'll contact other owners for labels, thanks.

From what I've checked so far the Williams schematics looks identical to Segasa pin (other than 240V transformer).

Rolf - Apologies 'reset' may not be the right word, I'll try again - When I switch my pin on with the toggle switch, it lights up straight away and pulls in the Lock Relay and Coin Relay. I thought when you completely unplug the pin you always had to hit the left flipper. I've assumed this to be one problem? and when I press the new/next game button another problem? so when I press for a new game it does zero the Score Drums and the Time Clock (on playfield) does a full 360 degree sweep then sweeps the opposite way back to 0. I can't see any other relays pulling in and this is as far as it gets.

Steve

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from Smerk:

... When I switch my pin on with the toggle switch, it lights up straight away and pulls in the Lock Relay and Coin Relay. I thought when you completely unplug the pin you always had to hit the left flipper ...

Yes that's right, and one of these 5 switches is out of adjustment or its relay is energized.

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#6 5 years ago

Hi Smerk
I fear troubleshooting Your pin - several reasons. Look here http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=1094 - the Gulfstream is in time the next Williams ONE-Player pin. Click on the manual, see here http://www.ipdb.org/files/1094/Williams_1973_Gulfstream_Instruction_Manual.pdf on page-11 (ori-9) all the coils of the machine are listed - Mech.Panel is bottom board, Insert is cabinet - playfield is playfield, cabinet is sidewall or backwall of cabinet. When we want to look at an specific coil - this page is very helpful . See on page-22 and following pages - EVERY relay with ALL its switches are shown --- very, very helpful information. Look on page-23 (ori-21) - the Reset-Relay --- see switches A, B, C, D, E --- the switch "E" has THREE blades - it is ONE switch --- the other switches are simple two-bladed switches. You should buy You an Manual for Your pin. Do You have papertags in Your pin telling You the name of the relays ? Please locate the "COIN-Relay (probably on Mech.Panel in the bottom of the cabinet)" --- count and tell me: "HOW MANY three-bladed switches / HOW MANY two-bladed switches does YOUR COIN-Relay has ?"
I need the information "how many switches are on Your Coin-Relay" - then I must look all over the schematics to find all the switches - then I can start thinking about "problems in Your pin". Greetings Rolf

#7 5 years ago

Thanks Rolf and Howard. I've never seen a manual for a pin and now understand why I need this for mine. I didn't realise how much was in there and think I need to halt progress until I get one and label everything. I hope I haven't wasted too much of your time and will restart this thread once I've got a manual.
Thanks Steve

#8 5 years ago

Steve- I have a Travel Time, or at least I will for a few more weeks. I hope it’s going to my friends house soon. I’ll admit I don’t have a schmetic or manual either. But I have gone through it and have everything working as it should. My first thought is there is one electronic part on this pin, it’s the timer that pulses the count down of the clock mechanism. This timer is located on the underside the play field, front center. It’s possible the capacitor on the timer board is bad causing it to pulse at a rapid rate, therefore counting back down immediately after starting. I would temporarily discount the output from this board and see if the clock goes back to zero. That’s just the first thought off the top without digging deeper. Best of luck. Mike

#9 5 years ago

Thanks Mike, once I can turn it on again I'll check this out (although I'm hoping I know the problem). I've ordered a manual which I'm hoping will be here late next week. In the meantime I couldn't help myself and had to take a look for the obvious -

Rolf, The Gulfstream pin is very similar and have managed to locate/label the majority of the relays (this helped a lot thanks). As a result it was the 25c Relay being held in not the Coin Relay as I wrote in my second post, sorry. I isolated the 25c Coin Switch (on front door) by disconnecting the Jack leading to it and hey presto I can now flip the toggle switch, and hit the left flipper to light playfield - The contacts were permanently closed keeping the Relay in, and causing the Credit Wheel/Reel to try and increase past its maximum of credits due to badly adjusted max switch. I think this problem was always there and hopefully will solve the Time Clock issue. Next problem -

It keeps blowing the 24V fuse. It's a different fuse from earlier and I don't even get to start a game. I did the same as with coin mech and disconnected the playfield. Noticed on this forum and on the Gulfstream pin that the rectifiers have problems. So I disconnected the rectifier, plugged playfield jack back in and it didn't blow the fuse. Connected the Rectifier and the fuse blew again. I assume this is the problem (although I don't understand why)? If this is required, does anyone know a supplier in Europe?

I'm sure this isn't the last of my problems....Steve

#10 5 years ago

Hi Steve
great - You made progress. You write "have disconnected the rectifier" --- does Your pin has an 10Amp-fuse near the rectifier ? In the schematics I see such a fuse for the DC-stuff --- what happens when You simply take out this fuse ? Well the Bumpers will not work (driven by DC-Current) --- but maybe You can proceed in troubleshooting the Start-Up-Sequence ?
I will drive to Zurich next Wednesday - there is a "Hobby-Electronics-Store" - I can take the part of the schematics (snippet) - go there and ask for "replacement parts - and costs". Greetings Rolf

#11 5 years ago

Hi Rolf, yes it does have a 10A near rectifier. Great idea, I'll check tomorrow and report with my finds.
Steve

#12 5 years ago

OK, Removing the 10Amp fuse makes no difference (still blows 24V fuse with rectifier connected) and looks like the rectifier disconnected (red wire) effects the Clock Unit and Pulse Relays etc so I guess I can definately narrow down this part of the problem to the Bridge Rectifier? I don't suppose it can be tested without power? If the rectifier is bad would it pay to replace Condenser also?
Thanks for the help, Steve

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#13 5 years ago

Hi Steve
maybe (maybe ?) just the 1.0 Microfarad-200Volts capacitor is shot - let pass - acts like a simple "connecting wire" - this makes an short on the DC-Circuitry makes the rectifier to suck and suck plenty of AC-Current - and the 24VAC-Fuse blows - well, maybe. So take the 10Amp-DC-Fuse out AND solder-off one leg of the capacitor - question: Does the 24VAC-fuse still blows ?

I am not really good in electronics - to me this capacitor is used to straighten-out / flatten-out the "so-called DC-Current". See on the bottom of the JPG - AC-Sinus-Wave with changing "above zero to below zero" and again and again --- the rectifier simply "mirror" s the negative into positive --- the capacitor then is used for the straighten-out / flatten-out --- on the right is drawn red: Ideal DC - a horizontal line. Greetings Rolf

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#14 5 years ago

Great ideas thanks Rolf...soldered off one side of Capacitor and no change with 10A fuse out - still blows the 24V fuse.
After some research it looks like Bridge Rectifiers on this and the Gulfstream pin cause problems. I've ordered a replacement.
There's still a question about the Pulse Unit but I'll have to swap this first.
Regards Steve

4 weeks later
#15 5 years ago

Greetings all, Thought I'd update and let you know where I'm at - Replaced Bridge Rectifier (35A 400V) and left old capacitor on as it tested OK. Game starts as expected and Clock Unit now advances before play and counts down during play (as it should). Fuses intact!
Now I'm confident I'm down to only one problem - Clock is meant to stop on certain actions (Out Lanes, Kick-out Hole, drain etc) but just counts down until time is out, ending the game. On the schematics it looks like the Start Relay would be the culprit but I'm not convinced. I can manually push the relay to Stop Clock. Contacts are clean and great continuity. The reason I'm not convinced it's the problem as there seems to be a few unlabeled 'adjusting jacks' (unsure what these are called) to change performance/certain actions.
I've been let down by a supplier for a Manual and have another on order so hopefully I'll get more insight when it arrives.

Thanks, Steve.

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