1973 Williams Gulfstream: Need help with a Coin Lockout coil

(Topic ID: 37242)

1973 Williams Gulfstream: Need help with a Coin Lockout coil


By EM-PINMAN

5 years ago



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  • 29 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by Odie3
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#1 5 years ago

Hey Guys,

Just got this thing almost dialed in after a 6 month on and off Shopout and finally have all the bugs out except that the Coin Lockout Coil on the Coin Door is not Energizing.

Got it to do it once but not sure how then it quit again. Everything else on the Coin door now works except for this one item. Coil is fine and tested with DMM. Wires to the Coil fine and Jones Plugs all clean.

My question is what energizes this coil? Lock Relay? Not sure from the Manual or the Schematics so I most likely missed something.

I know someone is going to say bypass this coil but all my machines work with coins and I like them the way the were when routed.

As soon as I solve this I will move on to replacing some lamp sockets in the Head.

I will start a new thread and post pics when I am all done which should be this weekend.

Thanks in advance,

Ken

#2 5 years ago

On some machines the credit unit must have zero credits on it before the lockout coil energizes.

#3 5 years ago
Quoted from EM-PINMAN:

My question is what energizes this coil? Lock Relay? Not sure from the Manual or the Schematics so I most likely missed something.

It should be controlled by your credit relay,which contains a N.C. leaf switch ,that influences the coin lockout ,according to how it is listed on one of my similiar vintage manual/schematics.
Hope this helps.
Good luck,EM-Pinman

#4 5 years ago
Quoted from KenLayton:

On some machines the credit unit must have zero credits on it before the lockout coil energizes.

That makes sense Ken.

Weird it worked one time and I think it did have 0 credits. I will check Tuesday.

Did Gottlieb do this as well on some early games?

Thanks,

Ken (did I hear an echo?)

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from EM-PINMAN:

Weird it worked one time and I think it did have 0 credits.

Clean the contacts.

#6 5 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Hope this helps.

Yes, makes sense that the Credit Unit controls the Coin Lock coil.

Worked out a lot of bugs today on the machine, Rollovers, Broken wire on female Jones plug, cleaning/readjusting some switches, stuck relay bank, and this all after a complete Shopout, but it was fun to fix and no head banging.

Finally got to play it tonight and it is fast and fun. Lots of stuff to do for, extra balls, replays, 4 corners and 3 in a row!

Super fast and fun! My fastest playing game to date.

Ken

#7 5 years ago

Excellent its alive ,always fun fixing multiple symptoms at one time and then getting rewarded with good game to boot following all those fixes.

Just got a bunch of 3 prong cords the other week so I changed out a shorter one I had on a pin to a longer 7 footer which is plenty compared to my previous 3 footer 3 prong but at the time I put it in that was all I had ,still better than the former 2 pronger though.

Enjoy the Gulfstream.

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#8 5 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Just got a bunch of 3 prong cords the other week so I changed out a shorter one I had on a pin to a longer 7 footer

I always pick up the 14' ones from PBR. The length works well for me for pulling machines away from walls plugged in to work on them. I'm sure operators back in the day liked the long reach of these cords for locations with few outlet options.

Ken

#9 5 years ago

I always pick up the 14' ones from PBR.

Got one from there ^^^ nice quality and the price isnt too bad either.

I got those for free from a fellow Pinballer my brother knows in NJ. (only needed 2 gave me 8, nice!)
7 feet is fine as long as you have properly spaced electrical outlets otherwise the 14 is a good option.

If you ever need cords go to your local elecronics depot aka: local town electronic recycling center and grab them from an old computer.
Just lop of the end.

They are usually 18g SJ rated which is good.
No need to worry on the gauge size as it would have to draw as shown in the Voltage Drop Calculator before there is a problem:

Voltage Drop Calculator -> http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

12 feet @ 15 a draw would just fall under the 2% rule!

After my new cord install I went to check the draw on reset and got -> No where near overload!

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#10 5 years ago

When you replace the two conductor power cords on your EM's with a grounded cord, do you attach the machine common to the ground wire? Curious what you do before I change out all mine.

#11 5 years ago
Quoted from EM-PINMAN:

Yes, makes sense that the Credit Unit controls the Coin Lock coil.
Worked out a lot of bugs today on the machine, Rollovers, Broken wire on female Jones plug, cleaning/readjusting some switches, stuck relay bank, and this all after a complete Shopout, but it was fun to fix and no head banging.
Finally got to play it tonight and it is fast and fun. Lots of stuff to do for, extra balls, replays, 4 corners and 3 in a row!
Super fast and fun! My fastest playing game to date.
Ken

So....was the broken wire on the jones plug the coin lockout coil problem?

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

So....was the broken wire on the jones plug the coin lockout coil problem?

No.

It was on one of the Head female side Jones Plugs that gave power to the Backbox. There were 2 wires soldered to the lug but one had broken off a while back before I bought the machine and someone just plugged the wire itself into the backside the the female end plug so I had an intermittent short and the power to the Backbox would go on and off for no apparent reason. I guess they did not know how to solder or did not want to bother.

I did not catch this even after the Shopout as it was hidden but the wire finally pulled out all the way and I had no power to it.

I even did a continuity test on the 4 fuse holder in the Cabinet because it looked suspect but it tested fine.

What helped me was I remembered when I bought the machine to test it the Backbox flickered then so I knew it was an existing problem that came down to a wire and luckily the game lights worked as the rest of the game did not.

Ken

#13 5 years ago

Still no luck on the coin lockout then? On Klondike, it is energized by the Replay unit zero position switch.

#14 5 years ago

When you replace the two conductor power cords on your EM's with a grounded cord, do you attach the machine common to the ground wire? Curious what you do before I change out all mine.

First get a good pair of strippers.
No not those.

Makes it easier to do the job. Not mandatory the other plier stripper style works too!

On your replacement plug like you are going to plug it in to an outlet , from the outlet perspective you have three slots ,hot ,neutral,and ground.
the one on the right assuming the ground slot is an the bottom,just like a smiley face,the left wider slot is neutral the right narrower slot is the hot.
Check for continuity with a meter so as to put the wires in the correct positions.

On image #2064 #2065 I put the ground wire (green) on the tranformers frame ,run the hot to the fuse,and the neutral to the transformer terminal Neutral tap.
Then for grounding other items such as the relay bank(#2064),coin door,and other potential shock hazards you run wire from the frame of the transformer or * note* some machines have a common ground point set up on them too ,just connect to the proper place that works for you using ring terminals for your Grd connection is good option.

Then connect your new cord ,solder, wirenuts ,ect . then use either shrink wrap or electrical tape ,use 3M brand 88 as the quality is better than the cheena stuff! use the cheena stuff to bundle the wires together.
Use wire clamps to hold the wire fast to the cabinet. #2398 last pic ,this was soldered to pig tails of wire so that pic is a different pin! * note in-line fuse because I used that for the run to the front of the pin for a switch I installed,basically the hot comes in on the cord I splice it to a cut to size 2 wire extension cord zip tie it to the harness connect to the switch then connect to the hot load wire to the pin.

Good to go.

Sorry for the hi-jack EM-Pinman
Now back to the regular scheduled program.

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#15 5 years ago

So if my machine has a common ground point, Attaching the power cord ground to the transformer frame is good enough?

#16 5 years ago

I would ground the frame of the transformer as it would not hurt even if you have a common Gnd point.
Overkill?
Look at it this way its not a bad habit to get into.

Quoted from Pafasa:

Attaching the power cord ground to the transformer frame is good enough?

To ^^^ use as a ground to emerge from ? Yes I would consider it a good place to start
your Ground as it is easier because all the wires terminate in the same general area which helps with the install.

Unless your transformer has a crappy metal attachment and not up to par for a ground.

Quoted from Pafasa:

So if my machine has a common ground point,

Ground it anyway , just in case your transformer decides to go death row electric chair style!

#17 5 years ago

Thanks!

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

Still no luck on the coin lockout then?

Still at work, so I have not worked on it yet, but I have a feeling it works fine, just need to set the Credit Wheel to zero to check.

Ken

#19 5 years ago

Curious what you find. And for more clarification of the purpose of the coin lockout coil. For me it is just a noise maker. My machines didn't even have coin mechs when I got them so I have the replay unit set to free play.

If it disengages when power is off so someone who drops a coin ends up getting it back then it makes sense for it to engage when there are 0 credits (so a coin can be added to start a game). But as soon as there are more than 0 credits the coil disengages again? Why would williams bother printing a credit wheel that goes up to 30 or more credits then? Other than earning a replay, how could you put extra credits on the machine? I have to have something wrong here, right?

#20 5 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

But as soon as there are more than 0 credits the coil disengages again?

There is a metal bar that when the coil releases it it makes sure the coin bypasses the trip to the cash box and sends it to the return.
With no credits it has no reason to stay engaged.

Besides imagine someone walking up to a machine that is out of order/off and dropping a coin then getting ripped off!
They probably beat the hell out of the machine to get their money back so i guess someone figured we better come out with something to prevent this from happening.
Look at some of the old coin doors.

Quoted from Pafasa:

Why would williams bother printing a credit wheel that goes up to 30 or more credits then?

Maybe they made so many it made sense to use them and not produce ones with lower credit amounts.

#21 5 years ago

still doesnt answer my question about extra credits. Could you plunge coin after coin to load the game up with multiple credits? I don't see how this works if the coin lock coil releases once a credit is added to the replay unit.

Doesnt really matter I guess but just curious.

#22 5 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

Could you plunge coin after coin to load the game up with multiple credits?

Yes you can^^ especially if its 3 games for a quarter and you want to hog the game for yourself plus dont forget multi-players can add it up quick.

Quoted from Pafasa:

I don't see how this works if the coin lock coil releases once a credit is added to the replay unit.

No its quite the opposite, When the machine is on the coil holds the bar to allow coins to pass thru into the cash box awarding credit,but when a machine is powered off there is nothing holding the coil anymore therefore the bar moves to a position forcing coins to go in the return.
I hope I did not confuse you.
I prefer it off for home use and I hate the buzzing too.

#23 5 years ago

The lockout coil only buzzes from dirt or mechanical linkage binding. If it is buzzing, it should be serviced. A properly working lockout coil and linkage is whisper quiet.

#24 5 years ago
Quoted from KenLayton:

On some machines the credit unit must have zero credits on it before the lockout coil energizes.

Thanks to KenLayton for pointing this out.

Turns out I do not have an issue as the statement above is true on Gulfstream and some others so make a note to yourself if you run into this.

Quoted from Pafasa:

still doesnt answer my question about extra credits. Could you plunge coin after coin to load the game up with multiple credits?

With this setup NO. Example; my machine is set up 3 plays for 25 cents. Credit Unit is at Zero, put in 25 cents, now it has 3 credits. I put in another 25 cents thinking I can add 3 more credits for a total of 6 but cannot until it goes to Zero again because the Coin Lockout Coil will not engage until the Credit Unit Zero switch closes.

Now my 1976 Space Odyssey is different because the Coin Lockout Coil is constantly engaged and you can put on a max of 24 Credits the way I have mine set up. Maybe because this is a Multiplayer Williams you can do this to accommodate more folks quarters and Single Players were set up different because of just one person dropping a quarter. My Guess.

Ken

#25 5 years ago
Quoted from KenLayton:

If it is buzzing, it should be serviced. A properly working lockout coil and linkage is whisper quiet.

I agree ^^^ but I prefer to neuter it. I have mine set for free play so no need for me ,but the coin mechs are still operational ,plus less on the electrical draw.

#26 5 years ago
Quoted from EM-PINMAN:

With this setup NO. Example; my machine is set up 3 plays for 25 cents. Credit Unit is at Zero, put in 25 cents, now it has 3 credits. I put in another 25 cents thinking I can add 3 more credits for a total of 6 but cannot until it goes to Zero again because the Coin Lockout Coil will not engage until the Credit Unit Zero switch closes.

Did not know that ^^^ I guess every manufacture had a way to do there things.

#27 5 years ago

So we are all correct! Just have different machines in front of us...

#28 5 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

And for more clarification of the purpose of the coin lockout coil. For me it is just a noise maker.

Its purpose is, as stated in this thread, to return coins while the machine is off or resetting or maxed out credit reel. It is controlled by cam one on the score motor.

5 years later
#29 3 months ago
Quoted from EM-PINMAN:

Thanks to KenLayton for pointing this out.
Turns out I do not have an issue as the statement above is true on Gulfstream and some others so make a note to yourself if you run into this.

With this setup NO. Example; my machine is set up 3 plays for 25 cents. Credit Unit is at Zero, put in 25 cents, now it has 3 credits. I put in another 25 cents thinking I can add 3 more credits for a total of 6 but cannot until it goes to Zero again because the Coin Lockout Coil will not engage until the Credit Unit Zero switch closes.
Now my 1976 Space Odyssey is different because the Coin Lockout Coil is constantly engaged and you can put on a max of 24 Credits the way I have mine set up. Maybe because this is a Multiplayer Williams you can do this to accommodate more folks quarters and Single Players were set up different because of just one person dropping a quarter. My Guess.
Ken

Right, thank you for this thread on the Williams Coin Lockout! I am working on our Straight Flush (single player) and it only engages the coin lockout coil on 'zero'. I just replaced the door (the previous was a hot mess) and on the 'new' door I had to replace the coin lockout bar and coil. It had been previously disabled to always be engaged by 'bending' the bar to keep coins going into the cash box :-/

So after all that repair, I was like 'WTF'! Why will it only work at 'zero'! What a waste of a Reply wheel LOL - though perhaps a player could rack up 37 free games (serious doubt it).

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