Photos: 1973 Gottlieb King Pin Repair & Restoration Thread

(Topic ID: 209789)

Photos: 1973 Gottlieb King Pin Repair & Restoration Thread


By goldenboy232

6 months ago



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  • 59 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by goldenboy232
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There are 59 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 6 months ago

I brought home the King Pin over the weekend. I plan to do a full cabinet repaint eventually. For now, I want to get it working 100% and will thoroughly go through it mechanically before cleaning and restoring the playfield.

For starters, I am wondering if I need to disable the coil inside the coin door? It's still got power going to it and when I press the start button the reels (slowly) reset (I need to service them -- a couple of them struggle to get to zero but eventually do) but it doesn't kick the ball out right away. The score motor keeps running until I wiggle the little bar (shown in the picture below) inside the coin door and eventually get it to the right position for the motor to stop. Then the ball kicks out for Ball 1 and it goes through a normal game (Balls 1-5, then to Game Over). What do you think is causing that, and what role is that coin door playing in that?

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#2 6 months ago

The little bar controls the coin lockout feature to the coin mechs. When the power is off, the coin lockout feature will divert coins to the coin return tray if coins are inserted in the coin slots. If the power is on, then coins will be allowed to drop on the coin switches to start a game or add credits. It sounds like one of the parts on the coin lock out feature is interfering with the coin switches. Pull the coin mechs to see if there are any stuck coins in the mechs, bent rods related to the coin lockout mechanism, or bent coin switch wires.

The coin lockout coil on the door is a continuous use coil that is always on when the machine is powered on. It only regulates coins that can be accepted if the machine is on or off. For troubleshooting problems with the machine, it doesn't matter if the coin lockout coil if connected or not. If you plan not to use coins when playing the machine, you can just disconnect one of the wires from the coil...

#3 6 months ago
Quoted from goldenboy232:

What do you think is causing that, and what role is that coin door playing in that?

Check ALL your wires and switches on the coin door and harness to make sure nothing is shorting a wire.

Also, Two different times on a Gottlieb I had a back-fed short from the coin door coil itself to the score motor that even when I tested the coil with a volt meter and it read OK, but when I replaced the coil with a new one the problem was solved. Your coil looks original and could be a culprit as well. I always have my coin door coils workings as I use coin mechs in all my machines, but you could just by pass it and not use it if you wish. Have fun with your restoration, I'm having fun with mine.

#4 6 months ago
Quoted from goldenboy232:

I brought home the King Pin over the weekend. I plan to do a full cabinet repaint eventually. For now, I want to get it working 100% and will thoroughly go through it mechanically before cleaning and restoring the playfield.
For starters, I am wondering if I need to disable the coil inside the coin door? It's still got power going to it and when I press the start button the reels (slowly) reset (I need to service them -- a couple of them struggle to get to zero but eventually do) but it doesn't kick the ball out right away. The score motor keeps running until I wiggle the little bar (shown in the picture below) inside the coin door and eventually get it to the right position for the motor to stop. Then the ball kicks out for Ball 1 and it goes through a normal game (Balls 1-5, then to Game Over). What do you think is causing that, and what role is that coin door playing in that?

If you wiggle the bar to get it to finish setup/stop the score motor switch from running... then sounds like a stuck on coin switch... remove the coin mechs and inspect, sometimes the trip wire is making contact to the contacts (fish paper gone) and will cause continual "coin up". And yes, disconnect the lockout coil, they are usually fried

#5 6 months ago

Is removing the mechs easy? Never tried. I may just disable that coil.

#6 6 months ago
Quoted from goldenboy232:

Is removing the mechs easy? Never tried. I may just disable that coil.

there are two tabs to pull down and then the top of the mech swings out to the left and then pull up. You can see the tabs in your pic, one is just above and to the left of your finger. There is another tab on the inner side of the frame (near inner door), push both down and swing mech out and up.

#7 6 months ago

the pic

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#8 6 months ago

Ok got the mechs out (that was easy). Unsoldered the black wire (looked at my Atlantis and that’s how it’s done there) but now nothing happens when I press start.

I’m stumped. I did notice that someone had done a fairly messy job of hacking the credit unit (just cut the wires to the middle switch and taped together), so I resoldered the wires and bent the middle switch permanently closed to set for free play.

If I manually activate the ball count unit and move it to game over, I can then press the start button and the score motor will spin and get to the start position. But it does not pop up for a ball one. I have to manually actuate the out hole and ball trough switches and then it will go to ball one. However if I do not manually actuate the ball count unit, the start button doesn’t do anything. I can keep manually actuating those two switches and get it to go all the way to game over. And then the start button will work again, but I have to manually actuate the switches to get it to go through balls one through five to game over again. Where do I start guys?

#9 6 months ago

Well now for seemingly no reason it’s working. If I press start it resets the reels (struggles to do this on two of them as I’ve not serviced them yet) and kicks out ball 1. Let me see if it reverts back to not working. Odd.

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#10 6 months ago

deleted post

#11 6 months ago

My initial thoughts still stand, you probably had a jamed coin switch

#12 6 months ago

Above may be true... but is just a symptom of a much bigger issue. You just purchased a game that is literally 45 years old and the last time any of the mechanical stuff was cleaned is likely- never. There are any number of reasons why an old game like this might intermittently function. Based upon your description of reset sequence it’s clear many (probably all of them) coils and mechs are gummed up with dirt and dust and possibly old grease (note- never- ever lubricate a coil sleeve- not now not ever). Your going to have to take a bunch of stuff apart and clean it up. This is not difficult- and on this game nearly everything on the playfield has a twin on the opposite side. So if you do one thing at a time you should have no issues putting it back together.

This process can be as simple or as complex as you want it to be. If its your first time doing this and your not super comfortable with electronics and mechanical things- then i would recommend you order the required coil sleeves (this can be hard info to find without parts catalog and manual but I can help and others will chime in).

Then using a flat head screwdriver, a pliers, and a rag with some Brasso polish and a little Novus 2 plastic polish... you take one piece off and unscrew things (taking a million pics along the way) and clean them- use brasso for metal, Novus for plastic and two different rags. Then put them back together. In general do not lubricate anywhere. You can do this in a few places with metal on metal direct contact but worry about that later- if you simply clean and reassemble you can find the 3 or 4 places to add lube (in the entire game) later on.

Until you get the mechs free of grime and binding up- its going to be a beast to manage it.

Congrats on an awesome game. I am currently deep into a restore and if you find that thread it may be of some use in terms of insight into the general process of mechanical restoration. I take this pretty far and have done this before, you do not need to take every thing completely apart to succeed- its fun- and its rewarding as hell when something old and grimy becomes something shiny and slick- and when the process is over you will have a game that will likely last another 50 years or more without much need to do this type of serious maintenance ever again.

#13 6 months ago

Thanks Rufessor. I’m pretty experienced with cleaning, servicing and restoring these games, but I still struggle with the electrical and schematic issues.

Ok, I disassembled the score reels completely and ran the parts through my ultrasonic cleaner. Serviced the circuit boards per the usual process and applied very small amount of super lube. Reels work great now.

Also serviced the ball-count unit and the credit unit as well as all the relays in the head. Next up is everything on the underside of the play field.

Then the bottom board. And then the play field itself.

I’ll let you guys know if it acts up again.

#14 6 months ago

I ordered a King Pin manual and schematic from PBR -- hope to have it by tomorrow -- but in the meantime am wondering if any of you with King Pin schematics could help me start to diagnose one issue.

The game plays great right now EXCEPT that when I knock down the targets to light the 5,000 Bonus (and also when I knock them down the second time to light the Special), the correct light comes on (5K and Special) and also the moving spot on one of the drop-targets, but when I knock down the "lit" drop target, it doesn't score 5K -- it just scores 500 as it would early in a game -- nor does it activate the knocker/credit unit when the Special is lit in those situations.

Is there a common path/switch I should check that would affect both of those? Or are they separate issues?

Once I get the schematic I can try to diagnose as well, but thought I'd get a jump-start.

Thanks!

Mark

#15 6 months ago

In order for the 5000 point feature to score when hitting a target, a switch on the C relay needs to close. Check the C relay to make sure the switches are clean and adjusted properly. Look closely at the C relay switch with the brown/white wire and orange/black wire. You can also look at other related relays to the 5000 point feature like the D relay switches, Q relay switches and the G relay switches...

#16 6 months ago

Thanks! Will report back!

#17 6 months ago

Had to stop for the evening. Haven't solved it yet. The 5k relay works fine when the balls goes into one of the kicker holes that's lit for 5k, or when it rolls over an outlane switch lit for 5k. But when the drop targets are all down, it's sporadic now. Works every now and then, but not always, nor does the special do anything when it's lit and an associated target is down.

Need to investigate further....Not sure if it's the 5K relay itself or one of the associated relays you described (I cleaned and gapped switches on several relays). There's also one of the relays with the two small wiper discs on either side that controls the movement of which spot is lit for the 5K / Special bonuses, and I'm wondering if that could be part of it (again, not having the schematic yet, I'm guessing).

Any additional thoughts? Otherwise, I'll work on it some more tomorrow.

#18 6 months ago

Some other items in the circuit to check are the J relay disc and the playfield Jones plugs. Make sure the J relay disc is clean and that it will click into each position easily. Unplug the playfield Jones plugs from the main board, make sure they are clean, and plug in the Jones plugs again to make sure they are fully seated...

#19 6 months ago

So while I waw checking those circuits (still haven't solved the 5K or Special Bonus issue -- the 5K Bonus works sporadically but still nothing for the Special), I noticed that the switches on the HOLD relay were all out of whack (like NC blades not even touching even when the switch would be closed). That seemed odd, since the game was working close to 100% like that.

I thought "maybe that has something to do with this bonus/special issue", so I cleaned and gapped them correctly (as best I can tell, they're all gapped and functioning right now), but now the game won't start! The start button causes the score motor to turn 1/3 turn but that's it. The ball-count until won't advance to Ball 1. It seems the HOLD relay won't pull in and hold.

Can you tell me what switches cause the HOLD relay to pull in and hold? Are there switched not on the HOLD relay that affect that? Logic says I must have done something to the HOLD relay to cause this new problem, but it's odd because they seem gapped correctly now, whereas before I KNOW they were not.

Any help would be appreciated. Love it when I cause a new problem.

Thanks,

Mark

#20 6 months ago

Here's the circuit for the hold relay:

15 amp fuse - red wire and red/yellow wire
Bounce switch - red/yellow wire and red/white wire
Anti-cheat switch - red/white wire and slate wire
R relay switch - slate wire and yellow wire
T relay switch - yellow wire and slate/green wire
Lightbox tilt switch - slate/green wire and slate/green wire

Also, check the start relay switch with the slate color wire and maroon wire.

Make sure these switches are clean and adjusted properly...

#21 6 months ago

When the start relay fires. It closes a switch to the hold relay. Then the hold relay should stay energized by its own switch. It's possible you may have changed the switch on the hold relay so that is not holding on its own. Hope that is clear!

#22 6 months ago

Which switch in the hold relay is supposed to lock on?

#23 6 months ago

The R relay switch (hold relay switch) with the slate wire and yellow wire will enable the R relay coil to be constantly energized...

#24 6 months ago

Ok thanks will check it out this afternoon. I’m thinking it has to be either the start relay or the hold relay, as I really wasn’t messing with any of the rest of the circuit. But I will check those areas too just to be safe.

#25 6 months ago

OK, after swapping out the coil in the Hold relay (I’m not 100% sure the old one was bad but just in case), a little bit more adjusting, blowing off contacts with pressurized air, and dumb-luck, the game seems to be working again correctly, minus the 5000 point bonus and the special. I’m still not sure what I did. So now I’m back at troubleshooting the 5k bonus and the special.

#26 6 months ago

Fred, what causes D relay to pull in?

Also is the Hold Relay supposed to be activated throughout the entire game?

#27 6 months ago

D relay is the sequence score control relay. When a drop target is hit, power will be sent to the J relay disc. If the disc wiper is on a corresponding position with the lit target, power is then sent to score motor switch 1C (slate/white wire and white/green wire) and then power goes to G relay switch (white/green wire and blue wire), and then power goes to the D relay coil.

Hold relay would be energized during the entire game. Hold relay is off in tilt mode...

#28 6 months ago

Here's a video of the bonus issue. Watch to the end (only about 2 1/2 minutes) so you can see how sometimes it does score 5K...Would appreciate any troubleshooting guidance you can give me.

Thanks, guys!

Ignore this photo. I accidentally uploaded it and now I can't delete it...
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#29 6 months ago

We'll have to look at the switches that relate to the 5000 point scoring and the spot advance. D relay is related to the 5000 point scoring and the spot advance. Check the following:

D relay switch - blue wire and orange/black wire
D relay switch - black/yellow wire and yellow/red wire

Make sure these switches are clean and adjusted properly. Regarding cleaning the switch contacts, sometimes you'll need the "scrub" the contacts clean using a Flexstone or paper fingernail file.

Also, examine the D relay coil. Does it looked burned? Any stray wires at the terminal lugs? Do you have a multi-meter? You can measure the resistance of the coil to determine the "health" of the coil...

#30 6 months ago

Ok let me look into those. My wires are so faded on this one it’s hard to tell the colors. Are these NO, NC, Make-Break? Just I give me a second way to identify them.

I’ll look tonight and report back again.

Thanks for your patient help! I bought the game in Austin—should have just come straight to your place, haha!

Mark

#31 6 months ago

The D relay switches in question would be normally open (NO) single switches. If you can't identify the switches, just clean and adjust all the D relay switches...

Yes, I remember seeing your machine - Craigslist, Facebook? I think the seller had it listed at a pretty good selling price... Interesting to see that your machine has the same aftermarket coin pricing labels as my King Pin ... With all these machines, they seem to have extreme playfield wear near the top kickout holes. Clay's Pin Repair Web site has an article on how to repair the playfield wear by those kickout holes:

http://www.pinrepair.com/restore/kppf.htm

#32 6 months ago

OK thanks! Yes, he was originally listing it for $800 about a year and a half ago, and I made him an offer of $500 about a month ago and he took it. It does have the wear near the kicker holes, and I’ll plan to do a touch up paint. I’ll probably end up doing a full cabinet repaint and replace the coin door and coin entry plate, etc.

#33 6 months ago

I’m also going to revisit the J relay (AS style mini-stepper), to make sure it’s reading each contact point correctly and am curious what you guys do to clean/service them for optimal functioning?

Normally I’ll remove the screws on each side, take the arms off, the washers off and the “feet” that spin on the circuit board. I then clean the circuit boards with 90% alcohol and mother’s metal polish. Then I put a TINY smear of super lube dry synthetic grease on each board. I wipe the little feet with alcohol and then reassemble. I also scrub the plastic gear mechanism with a toothbrush and alcohol.

What more would you do? I suspect that J relay could be a big part of the sporadic bonus issue even though it LOOKS like it’s operating fine.

#34 6 months ago
Quoted from goldenboy232:

... What more would you do? ...

Use Alligator clip jumper wires to make sure you know exactly where the problem is before fixing anything. If you have trouble seeing wire colors, they're usually brighter inside the wiring harness, so unwrap the wiring harness a little.

#35 6 months ago

Is there a way I can alligator clip the J (AS style) relay to eliminate it as a problem or identify that it’s the issue?

#36 6 months ago

Re-Cleaning and highly polishing the little rotating foot on the J relay (AS type mini stepper) did the trick!

Below is the newly cleaned and polished relay with a tiny bit of dry lube on it.

5000 point bonus works 100% of the time! Now the last remaining mechanical issue on this game is the special. After I knock down all the targets a second time it does light the special as it should, but when I knock down the lit spot it does not credit one game nor does the knocker go off. I know the credit unit and knocker works because the match works on the game. Can you tell me what the path is to get the special to work?

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#37 6 months ago

Here's the path for the target specials:

Score motor switch 1A - red/white wire and slate/red wire
Score motor switch 2C - slate/red wire and yellow/red wire
D relay switch - yellow/red wire and green/red wire
Q relay switch - slate/green wire and orange/green wire (3 ball game only)
H relay switch - orange/green wire and slate/white wire

The D relay is the sequence score control relay and the H relay is the special sequence control relay. When the target special is lit, the D and H relay switches listed above should be closed. At this point, the score motor switches would close and open to send power to the Add Replay Unit solenoid after a target special was hit...

#38 6 months ago
Quoted from fredsmythson:

Here's the path for the target specials:
Score motor switch 1A - red/white wire and slate/red wire
Score motor switch 2C - slate/red wire and yellow/red wire
D relay switch - yellow/red wire and green/red wire
Q relay switch - slate/green wire and orange/green wire (3 ball game only)
H relay switch - orange/green wire and slate/white wire
The D relay is the sequence score control relay and the H relay is the special sequence control relay. When the target special is lit, the D and H relay switches listed above should be closed. At this point, the score motor switches would close and open to send power to the Add Replay Unit solenoid after a target special was hit...

Thanks Fred, will check it out tomorrow afternoon and report back....what causes D to pull in? Should it pull in as soon as the Special is lit? Or by the score motor?

#39 6 months ago

The D relay will energize when all the drop targets are hit the first time via a G relay switch, which allows power to reach the D relay coil. In this case, the D relay coil will be energized until the end of the game or until the game is tilted. When all the drop targets are hit for the second time, the H relay will be energized, which will allow power to get to the Add Replay Unit solenoid when a lit drop target is hit...

#40 5 months ago

Pausing from working on the Bonus issue (Fred I’ll revisit it soon) to start working on the play field. Replaced the broken drop target (first pic shows lineup of 10 intact targets) and and then started touching up the chipped paint (did the blue so far). Before and after shot of the blue tear-drop shapes.

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3 weeks later
#41 5 months ago

Took a break from Quick Draw #2 restoration to do a bit of work on the King Pin last week:

Touched up the wear on the right kickout hole (left the left-side wear alone) and it turned out pretty darn well. Once waxed and the playfield's back together, I don't think you'll see the touchup at all. I'm happy with it.

I also got the cab and head ready to paint, including sanding, some minor bondo work, more sanding, white primer, Krylon Heirloom White. I ordered my orange and blue paints from Montana paint and bought a touch-up sprayer from Harbor Freight along with the "lava" paint and lacquer thinner to do the webbing.

Hope to do the webbing and stencils from Pinball Pimp (pictured below flattening out from their shipping tube).

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#42 5 months ago

Nice work!

#43 5 months ago

Thanks Skidave!

#44 5 months ago

Thanks for this thread as I just got one and it has some wires cut from the tens score reel and it's hard to know what was there, mine has no pcb on that reel now and there are issues with gameplay. Favoriting this topic.

#45 5 months ago

Speaking of, could you take a pic of the back of your score reels including the wiring?

Thanks!

#46 5 months ago
Quoted from shimoda:

Speaking of, could you take a pic of the back of your score reels including the wiring?
Thanks!

Yes absolutely will, and happy to help any way I can along the way. I’m traveling until next Monday night so will post on a Tuesday.

Great game!

1 week later
#47 4 months ago

Well my first try with webbing was success followed by partial failure.

First, kudos to Ken for patiently emailing and texting me info to get the right supplies and equipment and on technique. Any failure on my part was my own doing as a novice and not Ken's advice.

The webbing itself looked pretty darn good for a first try (see image below):

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My mistake was two-fold: I didn't applying it heavy enough to account for ~half of it coming off from my Pinball Pimp Stencils, and I didn't use quite enough lacquer thinner in the canister of my sprayer, which caused too much of the paint to dry in mid-air (too quickly) before it hit the cabinet.

As a result, after I applied my stencils and did the orange and blue colors, very little of my webbing was left on the cabinet.

This game is for my collection, and I think it's a beautiful cabinet, but I do wish more of my webbing had remained. I know things to do next time, and appreciate Ken's support during this, my first attempt.

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#48 4 months ago

Nice job.

#50 4 months ago
Quoted from shimoda:

Thanks for this thread as I just got one and it has some wires cut from the tens score reel and it's hard to know what was there, mine has no pcb on that reel now and there are issues with gameplay. Favoriting this topic.

10 point PCB wiring. hope these are fine to work from .
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From a Kingpin I have Just finished repairing, this is a second Kingpin I have done .
I was lucky with this one, as it had a full mylar, but still needed the full about 40 year service!

Nice work too Goldenboy with the resto, the webbing looks great btw . one of the best drop target games..

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