Check your credit unit and make sure the maximum credit position switch is not open. It should be closed until the game reaches max credits and the peg on the credit wheel opens it up. That's a starting place, anyway.

Now, if the game awards credits for high score, then that isn't it obviously, but that wasn't addressed. If that's the case, then it's back to the schematic.

Without having the game or a schematic in front of me, I'd say you should start by checking for something like a sequence completed relay or something that activates when the specials are lit. It is probably the same relay that lights the special lamps, and it could be that a switch on it needs cleaning and/or adjusting.

Glad you got the other issues fixed. As I posted before in your previous thread. Located the EX relay on the schematic and follow its path back to the right and check those switches.

However, Big/Hot shot are unique in that there is an XB relay (Add Replay Unit Relay) which is in control of adding credits via specials whereas Coin drop, Score thresholds, and Matches are fed directly to the Replay unit step up coil.
EX is disabled from the 15th (or 10 or 5) position Replay Unit switch and the AX(Target special relay) and A (Alternator Relay) and a break switch also on the "on add replay unit" which I believe to be an "End of Stroke" switch on the step up armature.

Seems like the make/break switch on 'A' or the switch on 'AX' would be the most typical culprits in this type of path. The normally closed part of the make/break switch could just be oxidized, or the switch on 'AX' isn't closing all the way or is oxidized.

An alligator clip jumper wire used to bypass parts of the path can help isolate where the signal is getting lost on the way to the EX relay.

Start from the left or right target switch and jump to the EX relay. That bypasses everything, and should work (when the target switch closes).

Then pick the next switch along the logic path, and repeat/continue until it no longer works. Then the problem lies with last switch skipped.

I'm sure others will have more tips on the use of jumper wires, or a search online and in other threads will yield the general info on them.

Also, here's one example of info on reading schematics:
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#schematic

Still not clear on a couple of things:

When you score a special off the lit special target, Does the EX relay energize (at least while you hold the target in)?

If you push the EX relay in by hand, does it add a credit?

We need to figure out which of the two is giving you the problem.

Sorry for the late reply.

The path for powering the EX relay is first through a normally open contact on the AX relay: wires yel/red and yel. Then, the path continues through two separate parts of the A (alternator) relay which is used to switch between special and no score, or score only. The rest of the path is through Motor 1C but it can't be that since that also disables scoring during motor cycles and the rest of that path is still functioning.

Not sure where AX relay is located. If its on the bottom relay board, then there would be a yellow wire coming down through a Jones plug from the playfield. If it is mounted ON the underside of the playfield, then there is no in-between connection, just a straight run of the yellow wire.

Here is a quick scan of the EX part of a Big Shot schem.Big Shot EX.jpg

The switches that control the alternating special lights are different from the ones that direct the scoring on the A relay. So while very unlikely, it is still possible they could be bad but it would mean a normally open switch and a normally closed switch on different pairs are bad. It is more likely the path through the 15th position switch on the replay unit since that would need to go from the playfield, back to the head, and then to the EX relay (not sure where that is mounted??).

What you can do is make yourself a long jumper (piece of wire and two alligator jumpers) and jump directly from the Blue Black wire on the EX relay coil (might be on the hold switch lug instead) and to the yellow wire you have found on the AX but even better where it attaches at the A relay switches.

This will bypass 2 long runs of wire which I suspect is where your problem lies. But jumping past the AX contact, you won't even need that SPECIAL to be lit for the Spot Targets to score a replay. Since the normally closed switch on the AX relay will still be closed (shorts the left target to the right target) it will score points too. The Special lights will not be lit if you haven't completed the target banks and the 8 ball.

Kind of sucks for the Special targets not to score a replay since that's what the playfield is all about !!!!

Also, when you pushed the EX relay in by your finger to score a replay, did you feel it "pull" away just before you bottomed out on the coil? This pull shows the "Hold" path for it is working through the EOS switch on the replay step up coil. Just another piece of the puzzle to help us narrow down what works and what doesn't

You might even get a machine gun effect of pushing with your finger if you find the "Sweet spot" between open and closed.

Did you do the jumper test with the specials lit or without?

Hmmm. Well, there are a few ways that a jumper could blow the fuse:

The EX relay coil is a dead short (or the Blue/Blk wire is connected to the Black wire) - Both are unlikely since you would also blow the fuse when you tried to score a special when lit. Or pushed on the EX relay by hand.

or

Something along the path back along the blue/blk wire is not correct or shorting.

I suspect an issue with the 15th position "Replay" unit sw since that would also prevent the EX hold circuit (which is pretty simple) from working and doing that pull of the armature I was talking about.

So, the first place that Blu/Blk wire goes is to the 15th Position (Max Credits) switch on the replay unit. This is the switch that would open when the credit reel is moved to the maxium position (5, 10, 15 or all the way around depending on the presence or position of the screw in peg). This might be where you are seeing the missing nylon spacer. But I doubt it since I think you are looking at the step up armature EOS switch (On the Schematic, shown as a N/C switch labeled On Add "Replay" unit. Can you take a side shot of your switch and its wiring?

Clay has a good picture of a Gott. Credit unit about a 1/3 of the way down on this page: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps .
His does not have the EOS switch like your game should have. But it does show the Zero switch stack and the 15th pos. switch. These are both contained on the same bracket but are activated by different pegs on the ratchet wheel. The double switch on the left is activated at zero by the stamped peg sticking out of the ratchet wheel. The 15th pos. switch is on the right and here, is a single stack. This switch is activated by the removable peg (flat head screw at about 6:30 in Clay's picture). Sometimes, this peg is totally missing.

Is the EX relay located up in the head? I have a lower relay board and playfield to look at but not a head. I could not see it on either piece.

Pictures??? LOL. Try posting again to this thread. Recently, I have had an issue where when I attach a photo on Pinside, it doesn't completely go through (options are Delete and Retry but no attach to post). If I post on another thread, the attached photo shows up on THAT thread, not where it was originally posted. So, perhaps, posting again will make it appear???

Yes, those photos are hard on the old eyes. But I can tell you these things:

First, yes, you are missing a nylon spacer in between those two zero position switches. The two blades should not be allowed to electrically touch. Both should normally be closed everywhere except 0 when they both should open. But this is only related to allowing the game to start, not for the specials scoring a replay.

Second, see that rather thick phenolic spacer (brown thing sandwiched in the switch stack)? That use to be a much longer piece that is also used as a spacer as well as a stop to prevent the other switches in the stack from coming in contact as well as stopping the ratchet from going more zero or too far the other way. Neither is really a big deal as there is a missing tooth in the ratchet wheel to stop it at zero.

As to the lower EOS switches. Seeing two, I can tell you that one of them (probably the top one with the larger point contact) is for energizing the Knocker coil (all the time except when coins are dropped). The other is that On Replay unit switch we keep refering to. This one should be normally closed and the contacts should open at the end of travel for the step up ratchet armature. This is what "breaks" the hold circuit to the EX relay and would normally cause the machine gun effect if the EX relay coil were actually energizing.

Sadly, you have one of those games with almost all "peach and tan" colored wiring due to age and the elements. This makes it rather hard to trouble shoot unless you know the actual color and can say, yes, that looks like it might be yellow/brown etc.

If you can, get one more photo of the wires going to the actual EX relay coil (not the switch stack). Try to get your camera to focus on the coil lugs, not the surrounding areas. I know it can be hard but see if you can get a good shot.

Since the EX relay is in the head, and so is the Replay 15th pos switch, we know that the blue/black wire merely connects from one to the other. The other wire to the 15th pos sw is Yel/Red and it should wind up at a normal open switch on the EX relay and then continue over to a jones plug to go to the Playfield were AX is mounted. From AX, we have that Yellow wire which in my game was actually a cotton wire and not a smooth plastic insulated jumper. It goes over to the A relay next to it and then, is probably jumpered to a second set of contacts on the A relay. This is the feed from the targets to energize the EX relay when AX is energized (specials lit).

The EOS switch blades should be insulated on that bottom double switch stack (this includes the actual metal blade not coming into direct contact with the stepper arm), connecting the Blue Black wire at EX to any Red/White wire in the head should cause the EX relay to energize and therefore advance a credit. It should not blow a fuse. You may need to unscrew the zero and 15th position switch stack and let them dangle so nothing is touching (including the solder lugs or other blades). If it does blow the fuse, we need to locate the yellow/red wire as it leaves the head (jones plug) and goes down to the playfield. Sometimes, its something like a nut or washer wedged in under a jones plug near the solder lugs shorting to an adjoining lug.

Meanwhile, when I get home tonight, I will try to get some photos off of my Hot Shot head. It too has wiring that is pretty dirty and weather damaged but at least, it might show us how the switch stacks are supposed to look so you can go from there.

First Disclaimer! I only have a Big Shot schematic to look at. Normally, most, if not all of the wire colors will match the 2 player vs the 4 player. At least when it comes to like circuits. However, it is possible that the wires we are working with, are not the same in the two games. That being said, I am assuming the following:

Like the schematic says: "Due to Circumstances beyond our control, It may be necessary to substitute wires of Different Colors."

In the days of Hot Shot, Gott. was cranking out a lot of games and it was common to run out of a particular color or two, or three...... It always sucks when you find this out the hard way while trying to troubleshoot a problem.

So, based on my Big Shot Schematic, the color of Blue / Black on your game is Violet/Orange. The color of Yellow/Red is something along the lines of Slate/White/Yellow. The color of Orange/Black is Blue/Red/White.

AND, in your game, the Red/White wire that is common to many items on the right side of the schematic (25VAC) is something that looks like Tan/White in your photos.

So, now, you would want to jumper the Tan/White to the Violet Orange on the EX coil to test the relay coil.
Then to the Slate/white/Yellow at the 15th pos switch to test it.
Then to the Same S/W/Y wire at the EX relay switch
And to the Yellow wire (remember, the wire was also yellow in my Hot Shot P/F) at the AX relay switch.

Sorry for any confussion on my part by trying to use a Big Shot Schematic to help. I have attached a revised version of the schematic for the EX wire colors based on your photos.BigShotV2.jpg

Why not just ask someone to stop by and fix it for you? Some of us do it for free and we like to show others how to troubleshoot.

No, but hopefully another member here will see this and offer to help. I may be in your area later this Summer. I would stop by and help you. Or, maybe earlier via phone.

No, that was the one I was calling Slate/White/Yellow. It appears to be a gray wire (Gott called it slate, like they called Violet Maroon). And appears to either be a white wire with slate and yellow stripes or a slate wire with white and yellow. It could be any combination of those or something faded.

The switch in your picture with the Maroon/Orange and the wire stated above IS the 15th position switch. This is the one that stops you from getting more specials after you have 15 credits on the Credit unit.

What are the two wire colors called out on your schematic on either side of that 15th pos. switch just to the right of the EX relay coil?

See next post.

No, the Tan/White wire I called out is shown as a Red/White wire on the right hand side of the schematic. I circled it in the photo of the Big Shot schem. above. This is a very common color on a Gott. for the wire that goes live when it is okay for things to "Work" on the playfield, like flippers, bumpers and scoring. It is typically disconnected from power by the Game Over relay (QB2) or things like Tilt. It more often then not, is always a Red/Wht wire throughout many parts of the game.

I have to assume when you did Test 1, the special was lit. If it was, the results you got jumpering the Maroon/Orange to the Wire you showed should indicate that the 15th pos. switch is not making contact (should be normally closed. Otherwise, the wire I wanted you to jumper the Maroon wire to was the one on the Bottom switch stack of the credit unit. In your photo, it looks like it is Tan/white. It is the wire on the bottom switch where there are actually two wires twisted together and soldered to that lower lug. This wire "Should" be a Red/White wire but it is very possible that the Red has faded to an off white color (common when games are stored with the back doors off and exposed to sunlight).

Try lighting the special and putting a jumper across the Maroon/Orange wire and white-ish or gray-ish wire with the yellow dots on it on the upper switch on the credit unit (15th pos. switch) and let's see if you get a credit when you hit the target. This wire appear at both the 15th pos. switch as well as at one of the solder lugs on a switch at the EX relay.

If you were jumpering the Maroon/Orn wire to one of the wires that SHOULD be a Red/Wht, you would have permanently energized the EX relay coil as long as the jumper was in place. With the game in play, that should score a replay until you remove the jumper.

As for Tests #2 and #3, I am sorry I was not clear on those. I didn't want you to be connecting to any wires at the EX relay OTHER than the Maroon/Orn which is also found at the Credit unit. When you touched your jumper to the Slate/White wire at the EX Relay switch lugs, you were directly feeding the Add "Replay" unit step up coil. It is confusing as there is supposed to be a Slate/White wire at the EX relay switch but in your picture, the color of the wire at the 15th Pos. switch also appeared to be slate white to me due to its fading.

Yes. To the far right in your photo 009. If you mean you get a credit when you hit the lit special target, you have found your problem. It is the 15th position switch not making contact. This switch should always be closed and only open when that screw peg comes around to open it up (credits maxed out).

Try filing the points. You may also have to crimp the points tighter to the blade (needle nose pliers). The solders look fine in your photos.

BTW, in one of your photos, it appears to my eyes that you have a cold solder to one of the relay switch lugs. I have circled it in the attached photo.213089B.JPG Sorry the Circle is so hard to see. I don't have a good photo edit program right now, just PC Paint.

Here's an attempt at a more noticeable circle, CJ.

But it looks like just a bridge wire comes down from the tab above and into this tab (to me).

213618.jpg

Confess to not having read every word here but wanted to interject a small story of how I found my error for a seemingly similar situation.

I have a completely different machine, but delt with a similar problem. Basically, I had a switch that scores 500 normally, but is supposed to award a special when hit if you have a bonus active (light on). But I was facing a similar situation- my switch (target) would never score a bonus even though I knew it to be active.

In my game (and this may not be the case in yours and others are helping you track down specific game related schematic troubleshooting) the issue was the following-

I had a missing plastic spacer that would act to hold a circuit open until a reset condition occurred such that the bonus would expire (in my case, the ball draining). Because I was missing the spacer the switch made contact only very briefly as the bonus was triggered, but it was not holding the circuit because the switch blade would fall back out of contact. It may be your AX relay has this switch in it, but in my case, the switch was located on the switch stack that was used to trigger the END of the bonus-

So- without even looking at a schematic, I would go to wherever it is in the game that causes the bonus to be RESET (lost) (if its during game play- for instance when the ball drains the bonus condition is RESET, then look at the ball sensing switch stack). Unsure whats resetting your bonus but unless its only reset at a NEW game I would be inclined to take a very close look at the event that causes it to no longer be active and see if you can find pictures of a working game at that switch and see that yours is exactly the same.

Sorry- not trying to interrupt- but I also chased this problem for a while and was looking at the AX and many other places and that was NOT the problem on my game.

Thanks for the easier-to-see Circle, Dirt.

If you look closely, I see two things that make me think it is a cold solder (or bad connection). First, you can see that instead of the solder forming a perfectly smooth cone up to the wire, there is a gap around the wire where the solder forms a volcano (if the wire jumper weren't there). Second, you will notice that around this same area, the jumper wire has a different color indicating that it, at one time, was soldered and then broke free due to a bad bond on this part of the wire.

I certainly could be wrong, but that is what I see compared to the other solders in the same area which look perfectly fine. It might even be making electrical connection and therefore, not showing up as a problem.