(Topic ID: 207463)

1972 Outer Space start-up issue Solved!

By alveolus

6 years ago

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Latest reply 6 years ago by HowardR
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Outer Space Gottlieb, 1972

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Team EM help requested!

I am working through an issue with my Gottlieb Outer Space. The game was working well until recently when it wouldn't start a game. It would reset the score reels and the reset bank, but wouldn't light Ball one or kick the ball from the outhole.

I noticed that the " game over relay" and the "first ball in play relay" on the reset bank both remained energized, i.e. wouldn't reset, which doesn't make sense to me from the schematics as it seems that once they are tripped, their hold-on switch should open.

If I forced the relays to stay reset by manually holding the reset bank in reset position, the ball count would go to one and the ball would be kicked into play.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Note on the schematics QB is the "game over relay" and ZB is the "first ball in play relay".

image (resized).jpeg

More schematics

image (resized).jpeg

Quoted from currieddog:
What are the H and SB relays? Can you add that part of the schematic?

Ah, yes. That would useful.

IMG_0835 (resized).JPG

I'm still stuck on this issue. I have carefully cleaned and adjusted the switches on the reset bank but the behavior didn't change.

Thanks for your help.

Quoted from currieddog:
Did you clean and check SB relay?

I did, along with all of the rest of the switches in the reset bank with the exception of the Armature Activated Start Relay Switch. this one is hard to visualize. Could it be related to my problem?

Quoted from rolf_martin_062:
Hi alveolus
see the text "NOW TOGGLE ON THE PIN - THE QB-RELAY WILL PLUNGE, THE ZB-RELAY WILL PLUNGE --- THEN ..." in the following writing "new post replacing my post-9"
I wonder what You did with MarkG 's post-4 and the JPG in this post (?). He has "encircled red" an "Switch on R-Relay in the wiring towards the QB-Relay - Switch must be open when the R-Relay is pulling so we need the R-Relay pulling". MarkG did not "encircle red" another "Switch on R-Relay in the wiring towards the ZB-Relay - Switch must be open when the R-Relay is pulling so we need the R-Relay pulling". (((This Switch on R-Relay is drawn just below the words "BLK-YEL")))
Wear rubber gloves and/or exercise care not to touch metal parts like solder-lugs - then try: Toggle-Off the pin - manually reset the Control-Bank - the QB-Relay and ZB-Relay must reset and stay resetted (as You have toggled-off the main power switch in advance) - NOW TOGGLE ON THE PIN - THE QB-RELAY WILL PLUNGE, THE ZB-RELAY WILL PLUNGE --- THEN (manually) press the armature of H-Relay - does it stay pulling ? - then (manually) press the armature of R-Relay - does it stay pulling ? IF (if, if) "NOT Both are pulling": Ask a friend to manually press the armature of H-Relay and manually press the armature of R-Relay (ask Your friend to press both armatures at the same time - press both for a while) ---IF (if, if) both ar pulling: You do not need the help of a friend.
So the pin is toggled-on, the QB-Relay has plunged, ZB-Relay has plunged - in some way the R-Relay is pulling and in some way the H-Relay is pulling --- and You now manually reset the Control-Bank and let go on the reset-arm --- what are QB- and ZB-Relay do ? They stay resetted ? Or do they (faulty) plunge again ? Greetings Rolf

Thanks Rolf!

Both the H relay and the R relay stayed energized when I manually activated them. Then, when I pushed the reset arm QB and ZB remained reset!

What next?

Quoted from MarkG:
Does the R/Hold relay fire when you start a game? It should fire when the S/Start relay fires and closes the S switch, and then hold itself through the R switch circled here:

If it doesn't stay on, check all the circled switches.

SUCCESS!

The R relay never fired on startup.

The tilt/bounce switches seemed to be appropriately closed.

Your post directed me to check the switch on the S relay. I cleaned this switch and adjusted it slightly and the game is starting correctly.

Thanks to all who helped!

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