(Topic ID: 197980)

1971 Williams Jackpot Intermittent Playfield Lights

By Reaper802

6 years ago


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  • 17 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Reaper802
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#1 6 years ago

Greetings,

This is my first pin that I picked up for super cheap a few weeks ago. When I tested it before buying just about everything worked. I've cleaned the machine, rebuilt the flippers, replaced the rubber, and made all required repairs. I am experiencing one issue I could use some help with though:

Sometimes I power the pin up and everything works as expected. Other times none of the playfield lights will light up when powered on but they will all flicker anytime a pop bumper or sling is struck during play. This includes the pop bumper lights that should only light once the ball enters one of two upper holes and all the insert lights which only one should ever be lit at a time. Cycling power doesn't seem to solve the problem. It will work fine for a day or two and then back to no lights/flashing when struck for a few days, and then back again.

What should I be looking for? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

#2 6 years ago

Dirty/broken/loose fuse holder or plug pin possibly? Or loose wire itself maybe.

#3 6 years ago

May be worth a try reseating your jones plugs.

#4 6 years ago

I had this issue myself on my William's Wild Card. Here's what I did.

1: While I didn't need to do this, check the fuse holders and make sure the fuses are making good contact. One good way is to lightly pinch the clips closer so it's getting a firmer connection.

2: Most likely the issue is the jones plugs. Find the jones plugs that go from the playfield to the bottom board. Remove them, and clean then with either a bristle brush or 600 grit sandpaper. Personally I prefer sandpaper. Afterwards I usually wipe them down with 99% isopropyl alcohol though this isn't needed. If you do just make sure it's at LEAST over 90%. I find anything less leaves a white residue. I'd do this to all the jones plugs, good preventative maintenance.

Also as a note, if you use alcohol I'd wait at least 30 minutes to and hour before turning the game back on just be sure the fumes are all evaporated. While I've never had an issue with the fumes catching fire even after 5-10 minutes, better safe then sorry as they say.

3: Finally you wanna clean the female ends of the jones plugs. What I like to do it take some hard bristle pipe cleaners, dip an end in 99% isopropyl alcohol and use that to clean each of the female connectors. Afterwords I take some canned air to quickly remove any remaining dust/gunk/bristles.

After a good cleaning I've had 0 lighting and connection issues. I had to do it twice myself, so do it a couple times if it doesn't work the first.

If that doesn't work I'd grab some schematics and try and see if there's a switch that provides power to the lights. I know on gottliebs the tilt relay will kill all the lights on the game if you tilt, but I don't think williams do that.

#5 6 years ago

That's a pretty simple circuit so if jumpering the fuse and Lock relay switch don't make the lights come on, you probably have a broken wire somewhere on the playfield.

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#6 6 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

That's a pretty simple circuit so if jumpering the fuse and Lock relay switch don't make the lights come on, you probably have a broken wire somewhere on the playfield.

Of course you mean check resistance through fuse in circuit, or check for voltage drop across fuse right?

I certainly would NEVER jumper a fuse even as a check.

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

Of course you mean check resistance through fuse in circuit, or check for voltage drop across fuse right?
I certainly would NEVER jumper a fuse even as a check.

Good point. It would be better to jumper another fuse across the fuse holder.

#8 6 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Good point. It would be better to jumper another fuse across the fuse holder.

I was just pointing out safety of fuses...some people dont ever put them back in, or wind up putting a way over value one in, then wonder why major parts burnt up when there was a problem.

Certainly agree that it could be a fuse/fuse holder issue.

#9 6 years ago

Check the F switch on your tilt relay. May not be adjusted properly and the vibration is breaking contact.

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#10 6 years ago

All,

Appreciate the feedback. Before I started searching with all the advice above last night I plugged the machine in for a quick game. Now for whatever reason when I press the left flipper to reset the machine it will reset the reals to zero but then the motor keeps spinning when I hit the start button. It has never done this before in the few months that I've had it. No idea what changed between the day before and last night but now that motor just turns those cams forever and never starts a game. I'll try and get a video posted to show the issue.

#11 6 years ago

The new much larger issue:

#12 6 years ago

Time to start learning about how to read the schematic!

jackpot_score_motor (resized).pngjackpot_score_motor (resized).png

This schematic fragment (available on ipdb.org) shows the paths that can energize the score motor.

The most likely cause for the motor to keep running (which is a symptom of a problem, not its cause) is that the RESET RELAY is still energized. Verify whether that is the case. If so, we move on to the next step which is to understand what part of the reset sequence is not completing.

You can see in the diagram that there is a make/break switch on the RESET RELAY that keeps the score motor running so long as the RESET RELAY is energized.

#13 6 years ago

Yes I just came up from the basement to report that the RESET RELAY is closing but never opening (it's constantly energized).

Where can I learn more about the reset sequence?

In the area of good news I have GI lights back on. I rotated the 4 fuses around in their sockets in case there was some corrosion or bad contact point. That brought the GI back to life.

#14 6 years ago

What I have found in my research so far:

Williams Start-Up Sequence:

1. When the start button is pressed, the credit unit is decremented. This is done through the credit unit zero position switch and the 2nd coin relay (and the ball count zero position switch).

2. The end of stroke (EOS) switch on the credit unit decrement coil will energize the coin relay.

3. The coin relay will trip the game over relay.

4. The coin relay will energize the reset relay. The score motor will run.

5. The reset relay will energize the ball count unit reset, through the score motor.

6. The reset relay energizes the 2nd coin relay latch and game over relay latch coils.

7. The reset relay will energize the score reset relays, through the score motor.

8. The score reel reset relays will zero the score reels, through the score motor. The score motor will continue to activate the score reset relays until all the score reels reach the zero position.

9. The reset relay activates the bonus unit coil until the bonus unit zero position switch is activated.

10. When the bonus relay drops out, the outhole relay is energized through a different bonus unit zero switch and score motor switch.

11. The outhole relay will run the score motor. The bonus unit will step up once. The ball will be kicked to the shooter lane.

#15 6 years ago

We look at the schematic for the RESET RE. to see what keeps it energized.

jackpot_reset_relay (resized).jpgjackpot_reset_relay (resized).jpg

Once the RESET RE. is energized through the COIN RE. it stays open until ALL score reels indicate zero.
Once all of the relays indicate zero the relay will drop out when the top switch on the Index cam stack (switch D) opens.

You'll need to check the switches on all score reels. Even if they show zero, the switch stack must still indicate zero for every reel.

Look here for a great diagram of score reel switches: http://www.planetarypinball.com/reference/partsmanuals/WMS_Parts_1971-1972/index.html#/16/

#16 6 years ago

Copy that. Stuck somewhere in Step 8 of the sequence it sounds like. Back to the basement!

#17 6 years ago

And we are up and working again!

When the real is at zero there is a cam that opens all the leaf switches for that real. Following the advice provided above and using a flashlight it was pretty easy to check and see if light was getting through each contact when the real was set to zero. Sure enough the most significant bit real on player one had a leaf switch touching even when the real was set at zero and the cam was engaged. I bent the leaf switch just enough to break the contact, powered on the machine, and bingo she kicks out a ball and is ready to go.

What puzzles me now is how that switch got out of adjustment from one day to the next?

Again thank you all for the input and help. I'm probably going to start a new thread so I can understand what is missing from my bell mechanism and why I am having to manually add credits via the backbox vs. the coin mech.

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