(Topic ID: 293714)

1971 Gottlieb Playball Relays A and B not working correctly

By futurepinhead

2 years ago


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#1 2 years ago

Hello, I am working on a Gtb Playball and I think I have it down to the last issue. I first noticed it when I started a game and noticed all of the bases were loaded at boot (It started off A B and C relays were acting up). I went through and found that a switch on DB Relay was the issue with fixing the C relay. That one is no longer giving me any problems. A and B are still acting up, I have adjusted all the switches in the DB relay hoping to find the fix for the rest of them but I hit a dead end. If I deactivate the A and B relay, and then hit a playfield switch, the game will turn on the A and B relays correctly, it just will not release them. I found plenty of people having similar issues and their relays had become magnetized, but I tried to do the separation with electrical tape which was some peoples fix, but that didn't fix it. Looking closely I do not believe my A and B release coil is activating at all. pla

#2 2 years ago

I had a relay magnetize that didn't fix itself with either a piece of tape or index card. I ended up degaussing the bracket using a soldering iron to remove the magnetism. Mine didn't start acting up until a few games were played. Powering it down and letting it sit for a bit fixed it short term. I don't know the game you are working on, but I don't think the magnetizing issue is real common in general.

#3 2 years ago

Hate to ask, but what does the schematic show for those two relays (e.g. post the A/B circuit path so we can provide some valuable input).

#4 2 years ago

The A/AR (man on 1st relay), B/BR (man on 2nd), and C/CR (man on 3rd) are interlock relays. All 3 (AR,BR,CR) are reset by the Hit Unit stepper's wiper disk.

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#5 2 years ago

Thanks for the responses! I have verified that the coils are not receiving any power, so I don't think its a magnetism issue.

HowardR is A and AR the same coil or are those two completely seperate coils?

#6 2 years ago

A and AR are 2 separate coils on a single relay. There are several styles. Here's one example:

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#7 2 years ago

HowardR Gotcha that makes so much sense. I am assuming the R stands for Release? The one labeled 1R is the one not firing on the A relay, so that would me AR and BR are the ones not firing. A, B, C, and CR seem to be working fine.

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from futurepinhead:

HowardR Gotcha that makes so much sense. I am assuming the R stands for Release? The one labeled 1R is the one not firing on the A relay, so that would me AR and BR are the ones not firing. A, B, C, and CR seem to be working fine.

Yep, just follow the AR and BR circuits... 95% likelihood it's a relay or score motor switch that is shared by both AR and BR circuits... schematic is your friend.

#9 2 years ago

The AR and BR circuits are partially highlighted in my post above. The problem is likely in the Hit Unit stepper's wiper disk.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/1971-gottlieb-playball-relays-a-and-b-not-working-correctly#post-6290961

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

The problem is likely in the Hit Unit stepper's wiper disk.

Yup. Speaking from experience, my Play Ball had trouble correctly adding/removing runners from base. I messed around with the man-on-base relay switches, did more harm than good, undid that harm, then finally cleaned up the hit unit. That fixed everything.

My hit unit was occasionally sticking (missing steps), then jumping to skip over the missed steps. I partially disassembled it, sprayed alcohol to clean out all the old gunk. Lightly scotch-brite polished the rivets. Added a barely visible smear of PTFE (liquid teflon) Super Lube to the face of the wiper disk. Put a drop of lube in any joint that was metal-to-metal contact. New coil sleeve (NO lube). Works like a champ now.

Might not fix all your problems but definitely won't hurt.

#11 2 years ago

Thanks so much for your replies. Based off what you all are saying and following along with the schematics it appears my issue will be in the Hit Unit. I will update you when I get to it next week. Thanks!

#12 2 years ago

Update. Taking apart the Hit Unit and giving it a thorough cleaning fixed it all. There was also an issue with a coil in the Hit Unit but that was also a quick fix.

Thanks for all the input!

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