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(Topic ID: 274857)

1970s Williams EM 10pt scores not scoring

By RonMexico

3 years ago

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10 posts
5 Pinsiders participating
Latest reply 3 years ago by EMsInKC
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Blue Chip Williams, 1976

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#1 3 years ago

666

RonMexico

Pinside member

4y 25,150 32 3

So long story short...1976 Williams Blue Chip

The 10pt relay stay locked on when plugging in the score reels. When score reels are unplugged they unlock. All 10pt scores on my machine do not register. This includes: the 2 pop bumpers, and the various 10pt bumpers that also switch the pop bumpers between the 10/100pt score when lit. The pop bumpers register the 100pt score when lit but do not alternate.

With the 10pt relay staying locked, it fried the 10pt reel and the chime coil associated with it. I have replaced both with new coils, and also replaced the 10pt relay with a new coil, to no avail.

I have double and triple checked all switches. I have cleaned all switches and checked all wires.

Everything else seems to work but the 10pt scores and that stuck relay when the reels are plugged in.

What am I missing?

#2 3 years ago

MarkG

Fun With Pinball

9y 71,300 4,363

The schematic and manual are at IPDB.org.

Once activated by a 10 point target or switch the 10 point relay will hold itself on until it sees the 10 points added to the Score Reel via the opening of the End of Stroke (EOS) switch as shown here in red:
Blue Chip 10 pt relay (resized).jpg
Until that switch opens the 10 point relay will stick on, sending power to the Score Reel, chime, etc. Chances are that either your EOS switch isn't opening or is shorted somehow.

/Mark

#3 3 years ago

???

currieddog

Pinside member

Springfield, MA

7y 63,550 3,312 6

It's possible that the switches on the kickers are just barely touching and causing this.

OP
Quoted from RonMexico:
The pop bumpers register the 100pt score when lit but do not alternate.

Check switches B & C.

Capture3 (resized).PNG

#4 3 years ago

666

RonMexico

Pinside member

4y 25,150 32 3

Quoted from MarkG:
The schematic and manual are at IPDB.org.
Once activated by a 10 point target or switch the 10 point relay will hold itself on until it sees the 10 points added to the Score Reel via the opening of the End of Stroke (EOS) switch as shown here in red:
[quoted image]
Until that switch opens the 10 point relay will stick on, sending power to the Score Reel, chime, etc. Chances are that either your EOS switch isn't opening or is shorted somehow.
/Mark

I will definitely double check this.

#5 3 years ago

SDM

EMsInKC

Pinside member

Kansas City, MO

10y 79,550 4,022 22

Quoted from currieddog:
It's possible that the switches on the kickers are just barely touching and causing this.

Check switches B & C.
[quoted image]

Usually when a sling switch is barely closed the arm will machine gun like crazy. That's usually a really easy one. It diagnoses itself.

My experience on this is it is generally a standup switch behind a rubber somewhere. Just turn the game on and go around to all those and pull the rubber out. You'll find it.

#6 3 years ago

???

currieddog

Pinside member

Springfield, MA

7y 63,550 3,312 6

Quoted from EMsInKC:
Usually when a sling switch is barely closed the arm will machine gun like crazy. That's usually a really easy one. It diagnoses itself.

'Usually' is the operative word. I just had it happen and it did not do the machine gun act.

#7 3 years ago

SDM

EMsInKC

Pinside member

Kansas City, MO

10y 79,550 4,022 22

Quoted from currieddog:
'Usually' is the operative word. I just had it happen and it did not do the machine gun act.

OK but if the sling contact is making the kicker will come forward and stay there, right? Pretty easy to spot. If it's making enough to cause the arm to not machine gun it is really, really closed.

#8 3 years ago

LSW

Runbikeskilee

Pinside member

8y 43,150 722 10

I'm not following what you mean when you refer to plugging in and unplugging the score reels.
Did someone modify the machine using male & female connectors to make the score reels modular?

If so, that connector would be one thing I investigated.

#9 3 years ago

666

RonMexico

Pinside member

4y 25,150 32 3

Quoted from EMsInKC:
Usually when a sling switch is barely closed the arm will machine gun like crazy. That's usually a really easy one. It diagnoses itself.
My experience on this is it is generally a standup switch behind a rubber somewhere. Just turn the game on and go around to all those and pull the rubber out. You'll find it.

This turned out to be the problem. I must have missed a switch on the double check. (Screaming toddlers around the machine will cause lapses) The triple check (no kids) did it. One of first 10pt bumper switches on the top was touching.

Really appreciate the help.

#10 3 years ago

SDM

EMsInKC

Pinside member

Kansas City, MO

10y 79,550 4,022 22

OP
Quoted from RonMexico:
This turned out to be the problem. I must have missed a switch on the double check. (Screaming toddlers around the machine will cause lapses) The triple check (no kids) did it. One of first 10pt bumper switches on the top was touching.
Really appreciate the help.

You're welcome.

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