(Topic ID: 44059)

1969 Williams Post Time "restore" - Completed

By Rando

11 years ago


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  • 76 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by EM-PINMAN
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There are 76 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 10 years ago

Just an update since I haven't made one in a bit, I warned up top that I’m slow…

I thought I mentioned this at the beginning but it doesn’t look like it, the motivation for this restoring this particular machine is as a gift for my father-in-law. He’s in his 80’s, and he, like his daughter, is a Pinball fan. But he wasn’t crazy about my newer machine that he tried, I think there was just too much going on. He’s also a big horse racing fan, and goes to the track pretty much every day. Enter this horse racing themed EM pin that needed some work and this looks like a perfect gift for him, if I can get it presentable. And it serves as a nice test project for me to see if I can play on these over time.

So far so good. Her entire family came over this weekend and she wanted to show them the machine, so I quickly finished replacing all the remaining rubbers, put the backglass back in, got the apron and glass back on, and moved it into position next to my existing machine.

At first glance, it doesn’t look that bad! Slightly smaller, but good stance, and lights up nice with the houselights dimmed. Fired it up and he played a bunch of games and seemed to love it. He’s a big shaker, meaning that he constantly moves the machine while playing, something I know many do but I currently haven’t picked up yet. He actually stood to the side and shook the machine from there while watching his wife play which was fun to watch. And he got the high score of the night with about 19k, which was great to see.

So I need to get moving and wrap this up so we can transport, but so far the gift looks well received. On list to do:
- Need to replace existing power cord, current one is sketchy and I’m not sure how my wife will take it if I burn their place down
- Need to install an on/off switch, current is missing and I can’t have him bending down to plug/unplug it (Does this need to be original or would a more modern switch be ok?)
- Left flipper (not the one I fixed) is weak and buzzes
- Cabinet paint
- Replace the Bell solenoid, it isn’t 100%

But it played good, scored good, sounded good, and looked pretty good. And it’s fun, I’ll be sad to see it go, but that’s the motivation to try it again, isn’t it?

Thanks for help so far all.

#52 10 years ago
Quoted from Rando:

Left flipper (not the one I fixed) is weak and buzzes

Clean and align the flipper button switch contacts.

Clean and align the EOS switch contacts for that flipper. Make sure there is good pressure on the contacts when the switch is closed. It should open 1/8 inch at the end of the flipper stroke.

Make sure the bushing is not broken and that there is the correct amount of up-down play in the flipper shaft. The thickness of a credit card is pretty good.

Clean the solenoid plunger and check for mushrooming on the end. File it off if there is not too much. Clean the inside of the coil sleeve and check it for wear.

Make sure the coil stop and bracket hold the coil nice and tight. There should be no play between the coil and bracket.

#53 10 years ago
Quoted from Rando:

- Need to replace existing power cord, current one is sketchy and I’m not sure how my wife will take it if I burn their place down
- Need to install an on/off switch, current is missing and I can’t have him bending down to plug/unplug it (Does this need to be original or would a more modern switch be ok?)

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=EM_Repair#Replacing_a_Power_Cord

As you scroll down it has a on/off switch tutorial too.

A push button or toggle switch meeting the volts (120v) and amps draw(measure w/meter) is what you need.
Like these -> http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/Search?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&keyword=Single-Pole+Maintained%20Contact%20Push-Button%20Switch&Ns=None&Ntpr=1&Ntpc=1&selectedCatgry=Search+All

#54 10 years ago

The good news: I replaced the springs and rubber on the plunger, works great.

The bad news: I played a game and managed to get the chimes to lock up (previous issue noted above as old coil was burnt out). It looks like if targets are hit in a quick/repeated manner, it locks on, until game is tilted or reset. Video link below:

It doesn't seem to be a common issue, and is a lot easier to do by hand, but I did manage to get it to happen in game when the ball repeatedly bounced between a bumper and rollover.

Not sure of next step?

#55 10 years ago

If that is the 100's relay in the middle, I would check the 100's score reel switches. It seemed to lock on on the 9th position.

1 week later
#56 10 years ago

Rando, did you solve this already?

I took another look at your video. The first few times that the chime solenoid fires, there's a corresponding relay that also fires, below the chime box. Then, at the exact moment that the chime solenoid locks up, the relay directly below the solenoid fires and stays closed. It had not fired before that. Might be good to take a look at what controls that second relay...?

1 month later
#57 10 years ago

Hi all,
Moving slowly here. I have not yet resolved the chime locking issue above, but I also haven't had it occur again when playing live. So keeping an eye on it but putting on back burner.

I did rebuild both flippers with new bushings, coil sleeves, plunger/links, and plunger stops. Both flippers working great and quite happy about that.

My wife likes the game and what I work on is determined by what causes her the most frustration. It was the flippers, now it is the occassional loss of a ball.

Sometimes, not consistant, the ball count will drop by 2 instead of 1 when the ball drains. Doesn't happen every ball, and doesn't happen every game. I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary leading up to it happening. I'm guessing it's registering as draining twice instead or once, or trying to fire the ball to the plunger twice instead of once for some reason?

Looking for insight on what to check or look at. Problem with this one is it's inconsistant, and I can't "make" it happen, so I'll only know it's fixed after some extended gameplay.

Thanks all!

#58 10 years ago
Quoted from Rando:

Sometimes, not consistant, the ball count will drop by 2 instead of 1 when the ball drains. Doesn't happen every ball, and doesn't happen every game.

Could be the Spring tension is weak and not stepping the Ball count unit correctly in which it would need new springs sold at PBR and/or a dirty unit that needs to be taken apart and cleaned.

Ken

#59 10 years ago

Yeah, it sounds like the ball count unit. Make sure that the contacts are centered on the rivets. If the contact is slightly "ahead" of the rivet, it could behave as you're describing, and intermittently too.

2 weeks later
#60 10 years ago

God I'm slow...

Ok, below I've provided pictures of the front and back of what is labled in the backbox as my Ball Counter.

Regarding the springs, i'm seeing springs on the frontside, would I be looking to replace all of those springs, or just some? At a glance, how does it look? Note that it "usually" works ok, will drop a ball or two every couple of games.

Regarding the contacts on the rivets, am I seeing those on the backside? Assuming I need to loosen that center screw to enable those to move/rotate a bit? Do the contacts move during a game? I'll have to watch the back. At a glance, how does it look?

Thanks for feedback all,

counter1.JPGcounter1.JPG counter2.JPGcounter2.JPG

#61 10 years ago

The 'fingers' look like they're lined up correctly, but I would clean any old grease that I see, esp. between the contact surfaces on the board. I would also watch the unit work as I manually 'play' a game. On Gottlieb games, you can simply trip the ball trough switch and then the outhole switch for last ball. Not sure it it's the same for this game. What you want, it the stepper to advance the fingers one full step each time, consistently. So you are looking at the various levers/springs on that side, but also the alignment on the other side of the fingers. Also when you clean that old grease off, re lube with the synthetic stuff everybody uses now. Also manually check the stepper arms move freely and there is not old grease gummed up on the axles. If so, take apart, clean and re-lube. This stuff is all covered in the online pin repair guides.

#62 10 years ago

You can just unscrew that nut, take the fingers off (making note of where they were positioned)

Then clean those traces off. Lube very lightly with superlube and put back together

That should resolve any ball count unit issue

--Jeff

#63 10 years ago

Since you asked about your springs: I don't think you'll need to replace the springs. If you manually activate the plungers and the unit steps up and all the way back down with no hesitation, don't mess with them. If it's a little sluggish, cutting a few turns off the long springs or tightening up the center "clock" spring by one turn can fix that. But that doesn't sound like your issue -- you said it's dropping balls, as in skipping from ball 1 to ball 3 and that kind of thing? Follow other people's answers above and you should be fine. If not, report back.

1 month later
#64 10 years ago

Finally got to repainting the machine. Below are Before and After pics as well as the reference pic I used. As stated earlier I aimed for "Close enough" rather than exact.

newcab.jpgnewcab.jpg

#65 10 years ago

Dude. Phenomenal job.

So long, Zel. So long, Mel.

Maureen, I think I'll miss you most of all.

#66 10 years ago

Wow Rando, you have made that old tired horse look and run great! Do you have it setup on "extended play" so when you earn a horseshoe (extra ball) and the ball drains it kicks back up between the flippers? I think that's a cool feature.
--
Jeremy Agema
Central WI

#67 10 years ago

Thanks Text & Jeremy,
It cleaned up good and I got to have some people play it this weekend and it performed well.

Right now I have it setup for Add a ball, but the extended is different and I will likely switch to that to see how it feels and how well it works. Deciding factor on which mode to stick with is my wife so we'll see which she likes better.

Haven't tested that feature yet though, hoping it works!

Question for you Jeremy,
I see by your collection that you have a Post Time (Awesome, how is the condition? Any issues?) and Jungle Queen. I have a Jungle Princess (2 player version of 4 player Queen) that I'm waiting for delivery on. I have very little experience on EM machines. How is that as a player, how does it compare to Post Time which I enjoy?

Thanks!

1 week later
#68 10 years ago

Post time was a total dirty not properly operating machine when I purchased it. When the po started a game the score reels didn't even reset the game just ejected a ball onto the filthy playfield. I never turned it on until after I did a total shop job. All the contacts were inspected and adjusted as needed. The PF was stripped and thoroughly scrubbed with Novus 2 - it turned out way better than I expected. It looks and plays great now.

I love Jungle queen! My machine is setup with a steeper angle to keep ball speed up. I find the play somewhat unbalanced due to the large flipper and outlane gaps. It seems like one game will be high scoring and another one will be very low scoring. I call her my "fickle queen" It is a great game to play with someone that has a different skill level than you.

I do like Jungle Queen better - ball speed and the rhythm of the 300 and 500 points are more pleasant than the single chime and bell of Post time. I think Jungle Queen offers more (drop targets & 2 kick out holes). It does not have slingshots but the second set of small flippers make up for it.
--
Jeremy Agema
Central WI

1 month later
#69 10 years ago

Hi all,
I just wanted to wrap up this thread and thank folks for their help and guidance. While I didn't take every bit of advice I was given, every comment was useful in helping me to move forward. I didn't clear up every issue (the game will drop a ball every now and then but infrequent) but I learned a lot and it is now a smooth and fun player.

The goal of this particular machine and the reason I was so happy with the theme was that this was a gift for my father-in-law. He is a fan of betting on horses, and hits the track almost every day. He is also a fan of pinball from playing back in the day. I would think a group of these or similarly themed machines would make a killing if routed at a track today.

I delivered the game this weekend, impressed everyone that I was able to move and set it up myself, and then had a scare when the backbox didn't light (connection cable was too tight, loosening it helped) and another when the ball feed wouldn't kick. Poked around for 30 minutes and eventually tripped the extended play (kicks back back onto field) switch which isn't used in current configuration, which then enabled ball return to work again. Wife questioned "You don't really know how you fixed it, do you?" to which I replied "I know HOW I fixed, I just don't know WHY I had to fix it."

Fun was had by all, I hope they can remember how to turn it on, and below are pics (If I can figure out how to upload pics in this new forum...) of a little old lady playing pinball, and the new owner alongside his daughter (my wife) showing off her new/current high score.

Thanks all!

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#70 10 years ago

Looks good bud

#71 10 years ago

Great job on the restore! looks really nice. I especially like the custom footies on the leg levelers!

#72 10 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

Great job on the restore! looks really nice. I especially like the custom footies on the leg levelers!

Ha,
I meant to bring my floor protectors but forgot them. Temporary solution is folded paper towels which I'm sure will protect that nice carpet.

There will likely be some movement though, I forgot to highlight that my Father-in-law constantly moves/shakes the machine. I actually removed the weight from the tilt to help him out. He shakes the machine from the moment he shoots the ball. I haven't seen any evidence that his shaking is helping his game out, but he gets a workout.

#73 10 years ago

Looks nice, great job on the resto.
--
Jeremy Agema
Central, WI

#74 10 years ago

Nice job, Rando!

#75 10 years ago

yes nice job - looks good

1 week later
#76 10 years ago

Nice work Rando, and look at all the smiles you made by getting an old EM up and running for the family.

Ken

There are 76 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.

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