Hi Vincent1468
do You have a schema ? I donated a paginated PDF to ipdb.org - but it might take some time until we can look at it in http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=415 .

The first thing I would like to look at is the (playfield) lights. They should turn-on when You press the "Left Flipper Button". Actually pressing this button should let current flow to the "Lock-Relay" -> the Lock-Relay should start pulling and closing a "Self-Hold-Switch" in the Switch-Stack of the Self-Hold-Relay. Here: http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/415/Williams_1968_Cabaret_Instruction_Manual_no_schematics.pdf -> page-22 -> You see the Lock-Relay -> the Normally-Open-Switch-A is that "Self-Hold-Switch".

The Lock-Relay also should close Switch-B and Switch-C -> for the Lights.

Can You find the Lock-Relay (in the cabinet) ? Danger, 110VAC and 24 VAC and 6 VAC around - be CAREFUL, do NOT TOUCH any metal !!!. With a wooden stick gently push onto the anchor-plate of the Lock-Relay (You simulate "Lock-Relay gets initial current and therefore starts pulling") -> Question: Do the lights turn on ? Then let go (the wooden stick) -> Question: does the Lock-Relay "keeps-on pulling" ? Please report. Greetings Rolf

Hello,
I have a question about the coin stepper switch.
What should be the position of this switch in position1 to 4. I think it is closed on 1 2 and 3 but open on 4 but is this correct. I have no idea where i can found this on any documentation

Hi Klokkie
I am not sure if I understand your question. ipdb now shows schema and manual http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=415 -> Manual-page-19
and "my JPG" say:

1-player Game: Coin Unit is resetted and there is a connection "My RED" <-> "My Blue".
2-player Game: Coin Unit is stepped-up once and there is a connection "My RED" <-> "My Yellow".
3-player Game: Coin Unit is stepped-up twice there is a connection "My RED" <-> "My Green".
4-player Game: Coin Unit is stepped-up three times and there is NO CONNECTION.

"My RED" is actually "Red-White", "My Blue" is actually "Blue-Red", "My Yellow" is actually "Red-Yellow", My "Green" is actually "Red-Green".
And the schema at D-6 shows a 1-player game - he has not yet lost ball-1.
Hope that is what You wanted to know. Greetings Rolf

And here is the JPG:
Greetings Rolf

aaaCabaret-Manual-p19_(resized).jpg

Hi Rolf,

Thank you very much this is exactly were i was looking for. I am going to set this up on the switch and hopefully the machine runs again.

Regards,
Hans

Hi Rolf,

Thanks for the help, i got the stepper and switch working nice but i have another issue coming up.
All the lights in the head box are out but sometimes they are on but then in the wrong sequence and the machine is not resetting, from what i have been reading on this forum and other web pages is that the steppers are mostly of the time the issue with these kind of errors.
Before i start cleaning the 3 other steppers do you know which of the 3 is the most common to give errors.
I do have the player unit, the credit unit and the bonus unit not done yet.

Hi Klokkie
I'd prefer You write the "problems / symptoms" - we look at the schema and the pin.
You must give detailed information -

"All lights in the Backbox are sometimes out - sometimes on (but wrong sequence)" -> there is "general illunination" and "Player-Specific illumination" and "Ball-Specific illumination" and "Game-Specific illumination (Game-Over / Tilt). What means "All Lights" ?

"The pin does not reset" - Usually I like to start a 1-player-game by pressing the "Start- / replay-Button (do You have credits on the Replay-Counter ?)" -> some relays get active - the Score-Motor starts turning - the Score-Reels are resetted (stepped foreward) - Player-Ball-1 is given.
so: What do you do - where does it stop ?

(((Some pinsiders might not like))) I would not start looking for faults by "Cleaning several Units" - I prefer "first find the fault" - then "decide on cleaning".

SAFETY REASON: Whenever You are "just looking around" "fumbling around": UNPLUG THE MAIN 110 VAC LINE-CORD (do it).
ONLY after You have pepared a test (and NEED electricity): Plug-in and start a game. Maybe You must have electricity and proceed in testing --- use EXTREME CAUTION.

Coin-Unit = How many player want to participate ?
Player-Unit = Which player is playing ?
Ball-Count-Unit = Which Ball is in play ?
These Units are "Total-Reset-Steppers" - You step-up single steps ... - wroammm the Reset is done in ONE step.

Please unplug the 110 VAC Line-Cord and practice a bit and look at it: Do step-up four steps - then push the plunger of the "Reset-Side" -> does it "wroammm all the way down" ? do this several times - on each stepper. You have the feeling for doing this ?

Plug-in the 110 VAC Line -> start a game -> do these Units WANT to reset (look at the Reset-Coils). If they do NOT reset: (caution: electricity !) manually do the reset.

NOW look at the Backglass - it should tell: Player-1 is allowed to play (player-1 is lightet), Ball-1 is ready to play (Ball-1 is lighted).

(caution: electricity !) manually step-up the Coin-Unit ONE step -> does the Backglass tells: TWO players can play ? Do this again -> THREE ? do it again -> FOUR ?

Do these things and report. Greetings Rolf

Hi Rolf,

Thanks for the answer, I will make a little test report tonight ( with some photo if possible ) so i can disrcibe better what is happening and what is not happening.

Thanks for the help so far. Great

Regards,
hans

Hi Rolf,

Had a good look at it yesterday evening and was ready to make the photo's etc but now the machine is not resetting anymore and there is not any light working in the back box. It stays at 4 players and the score reels are not going back to zero.

What i also did see when i was closing everything that the coil of the latch relay looked very dark and burned so will have a multimeter check on that tonight.
If that relay is not working properly could that be one of reasons for the error.
I cleaned the Jones plugs already and the coin unit and will continue with the others because it is greasy and dirty.

Maybe it is also wise to start to measure the wires i think.

When i do know more i inform you

Cheers,
Hans

Hi Hans
"No Lights" ? Did a fuse blow ? (can happen after Years of use ...)
"Coil of Latch Relay" ? I do not know such a relay - do You mean (Z 28-1150) LOCK-Relay ? - they usually look burnt / get hot. Look in the ipdb-manual, page-22 -> "Operation" -> we NEED the action - You can cut the single wire to the coil - BUT THEN You MUST move / have moved permanently the armature / anchor plate TO HAVE THE SWITCHED - "as if the relay would be pulling".
The Lock-Relay starts pulling when You start the VERY-First game - it will stay pulling all day long (continuously UNTIL in the evening You turn-off the pin.

Turn the pin on - push the "Left Flipper-Button" -> Lock-Relay starts pulling -> does it get REALLY hot ? Can You have it pulling for one to two minutes ? (We do tests) - afterward unplug the 110 VAC Main Power Cord and let cool of --- after a while plug-in and do some more tests.

Frankly - I do not use a "meter" for checking (I use it very seldom for measuring OHM's - every Coil below 2 OHMS is ruined).

"Not resetting anymore" ? Do You remember what You have done on what relays ? Coin-Relay Reset-Relay(s) etc. ?
We might have to start from the very beginning - haveing replays on the counter - pushing the Replay-Button -> does the Coin-Relay pull , does the Reset-Relay pull ? (start from the very beginning).

Please write about "Latch Relay" = Lock-Relay = Latch-Side of Game-Over-Relay = ???
By the way: The Lock-Relay does usually stay pulled for hours - ALL OTHER RELAYS shall NOT pull for more than one to two ((((...5)))) Minutes. Write about fuses.
Greetings Rolf

Hi Rolf,

Thanks for the answer. The relay i am talking about is the Game over relay ( page 20 in the cabaret manual ) It is the M29-1000 which is looking burnt. I will receive today a new one and will it replace anyway.

I did see that the Lock relay is pulling but i will do the tests you mention to be sure.

On the other relays i did nothing yet , i only cleaned the coin stepper unit and the match unit stepper. I did not adjust any switch only i did a check to see if the score reels switches did what they should do when they turn. I did this check according the switch adjustment diagram ( page 15 ) and all switches on the score reels did this correct.

I did not check all coils on OHM's but will do this during the job.
I am very happy with the help you offer and I am now so far ( mind setting ) that i will renovate the whole machine so it will work good and will replace any item where i think of that it is damaged . See a photo of one of the brass wheels i did clean.

I did a check on the fuses. I had first the 10 Amp ( headbox ) burned ( after i did the check on the score reel switches ) and replaced this with a new one , it worked for a while but not correct and then it stopped completly but did not burn thru .Then i had later on the 15 Amp fuse what burned and also replaced this with a new one and this one is also still working.
The lights on the playfield are working but only in the headbox are not working. I did clean the Jones plugs with sand paper ( 600 )to be sure that there is a connection.

To be continued

Cheers,
Hans

wheel_player_unit_(resized).JPG

Hi Hans
great - You want to renovate such a nice "Cabaret". It is fun for kids and the "unused player". The factor "Luck" is quite domant - this is not bad - every manufacturer made some models with "luck is dominant" - they wanted to attract "unused players" (((everybody sometimes have luck -> HEY, I'M GOOD -> I play MORE -> the operator gets his money ...)))

Very good - You mentioned in detail the "Game-Over-TRIP-Coil (beeing burnt)". Replacing a burnt coil is good --- even better is: FIRST find the reason WHY did it burn / overheat ?
It is an interesting problem - it has to do with turning-on the pins in the morning - turning-off late at night (in an Arcade-Room).

IF (if, if) a "Switch on the Game-Over-Relay was / is "faulty-closed"" /maybe and / or "a Switch on Lock-Relay was / is "faulty-closed"): The "Game-Over-Trip-COIL is WAY-TOO-LONG pulling" - in a fully functional game: The Trip-Coil is activated -> the pin switches to "Game-Over" -> Trip-Coil no longer has current.

The "very bottom basic problem" is: The manufacturer MUST build the pins in a way the pin can start-up REGARDLESS of "HOW has the former game ended ?". Think of a storm and a lightning has hit the local Power-Station - a "Black-Out" for the rest of the evening - a game abruptedly has ended - 4 players - third player was playing the second ball - ball is / was somewhere up on the playfield in an Eject-Hole adding Bonus - BANGGGG - the Black-Out. The next morning the operator wants to start the pin - it MUST start.

Williams said: To make it easyer - we build our pins: "When turning-on a pin and the Game-Over-Relay has NOT tripped: WE MAKE that pin activate the "TRIP-Coil on Game-Over-Relay"".

Your "Cabaret" has a so-called "Kickoff-Switch", look here: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=415&picno=18043&zoom=1 in the picture go "Bottom -> Up" from the "red text" "Triple Chute" -> up to the Score-Motor. Just below the Score-Motor You see a big, milky-white, round Nylon plate. A bolt is mounted underneath. If You "tap / bang / kick" from underneath (upwards) at this place: The bolt will jump up and OPEN this "Kickoff-Switch" for a moment. When closing the arcade-room late at night: Operators were walking from pin to pin - "kicking" and "turning-off the pin" THIS way - they dit NOT throw the Main-Power-Switch.

Lets look into the schema -> at B-1 is the Main-Power-Toggle-Switch - we have it closed. Between "15 and "16" - at C-16 is the Kickoff-Switch. The "tap / bang / kick" did open this switch for a moment - the COIL (at F-16) has lost electricity -> let go -> its "Self-Hold-Switch at D-16" opened. The Kickoff-Switch closes shortly afterwards BUT the Lock-Relay stays "not pulling" (ALL Switches at D-16 are open). (((pin is "turned-off" - well, it should)))

Look at D-17: The "Switch on Lock-Relay" is closed (as the relay is not pulling) - look at F-17 - the TRIP-Coil -> further and -> "closed switch on Reset-Relay F-16" -> "closed switch on Game-Over-Relay F-16": IF these two switches are CLOSED: It seems as if the pin is turned-off - BUT THE GAME-OVER-RELAY-TRIP-COIL is pulling - ALL night long !

Hans, when You mount the new Trip-Coil: Have a GOOD look at it - we allow it to pull 1 to 2 minutes, OK - BUT NO LONGER THAN 1-2 MINUTES. Keep an Eye on that (new) Coil.
Pleas write in detail about the lamps in the Backbox.
Greetings Rolf

Hi Rolf,

I have the lights in the backbox working again. It was a broken soldering at the Jones plug.

The point i still have not solved is the reset of the machine when i start it.
With the lights working again i do see that the sequence of the ball count is now 1,3,5,2,4 but it will not give game over after that sequence.

Tomorrow i will change the coil and see if this will change the problem.

Cheers,
Hans

Hi Hans
if I do not understand 100% what You write: I must ask. (Also: You must ask)
Good, You have "lights lighted in the Backbox". You have the sequence 1, 3, 5, 2, 4 - but not Game-Over. Hmm, I must ask:

AA1: Do You PLAY a 1-player-game through the balls and see 1, 3, 5, 2, 4, 4, 4 ... endlessly the pin gives You a ball - again and again ?
BB1: Do You PLAY a 1-player-game through the balls and see 1, 3, 5, 2, 4 - no more ball given - the pin stops (You can no longer activate the flipper-fingers) - but does not show "Game-Over-Lite" ?
CC1: Do You PLAY a 1-player-game through the balls and see 1, 3, 5, 2, 4 - no more ball given - the pin stops - BUT You can still activate the flipper-fingers ?
DD1: Another way ? (description)

AA2: Do You PLAY a 2-player-game through the balls and see the Lights above the Score-Reels changing nicely "Player-1" -> "Player-2" -> "Player-1" -> "Player-2" etc. ?
DD2: Another way ? (description)

AA3, AA4, DD3, DD4 ?
Please write about AA BB CC DD

Did You take apart some Units and put them back together - faulty ? The "lights in the Backbox" tells us about "mounted correct" <-> "mounted faulty".

In the Backbox You have "GI" - some general illumination "lights lighting steady - normal bulbs", maybe "lights flashing - flashing bulbs".

You have "CC" - Coin-Unit controlled lights - see my JPG -> a screw is mounted (opposite side) on the metal of the Unit - all metal parts have connection -> the (stepped) wiper-finger simply does the connection - here: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=415&picno=18531 -> on the bottom, on the right: "ONE OF THE BULBS" is lighted: "1 can play" 2, 3, 4.

You have "BC" - Ball-Count-Unit controlled lights, here: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=415&picno=18531 -> on the bottom, on the left: (not visible in the picture), below text "Ball In Play" ONE BULB is lighted - "first Ball", "second Ball" etc. - see my JPG, a screw ... (((Middle-left of the picture: the 24VAC-Activating of "Game-Over-Relay TRIP" depending on the setting (Adj. Jack) "3 Balls per Play" <-> "5 Balls per Play")))

You have "PC" - Player-Unit controlled lights - see my JPG, here: http://www.ipd.org/showpic.pl?id=415&picno=18531 when player-1 is playing - Upper-left corner: "1 UP and the Score-Reels of player-1" is lighted ---- player-2, -3, -4.

Unplug the Main-Power-Cord and practice a bit - manually step Coin-Unit / Ball-count-Unit / Player-Unit UP STEP BY STEP --- wroammm in a single step down to "Zero means One player / Ball-1 / Player-1". Can you do that NOT TOUCHING metal / machinery ? Yes. you do tuoch / grab the plunger near the coil - BUT NOTHING ELSE.

OK, plug in and start a game (for one player): is here: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=415&picno=18531 nicely lighted ? CAREFULLY step-up the Coin-Unit -> does the light changes ? CAREFULLY step-up the Player-Unit -> does the light changes ? CAREFULLY step-up the Ball-Count-Unit - does the light changes ?

I would like to see "ALL THIS functioning CORRECT" - when "Yes" -> I would like to start a one-player-game following the description here: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#start -> "Williams Start-Up Sequence" - step by step.
Greetings Rolf

aaaCabaret-Manual-19b_(resized).jpg

aaaCabaret-Manual-18b_(resized).jpg

aaaCabaret-Manual-16b_(resized).jpg

Hi Rolf,

I am getting somewhere. The machine starts to work better but some small things are still a problem. The sequence of 1 to 5 ball is solved, it was a bad connection on the stepper plate ( i think, i cleaned it again and the problem was solved )

The gameover relay is not firing when the 5th ball is played. I did replaced the coil M29-1000 on the relay and it works when i fire it manual so this is fine and the game over lights are on but the machine flippers still works and i can play further.

When i fire the reset relay manually the whole sequence works as it should be. The score reels go to zero, the nr 1 ball is in play and player 1 light is on.

What is happening now is that the machine will not go game over after the ball nr 5, the light of ball 5 is not burning then but the machine is still working.

What also happened is that on the coin stepper unit the player 1 is active but the player stepper unit goes to the next player and the game will always be a 4 player game and is not going in game over.

I did also a measurement on all coils and they all are above 10 Ohms so this should be oke only the coil Z27-1000 (only the game over relay ) was giving 9 ohms but what understand from earlier is that below 2ohms the coil is ready to replace.

When i will be at the workshop tomorrow i will upload some photo's i did take.

I have the idea that it is a small thing what i am missing because when i do things manually everythings works as it should working.

Cheers,
Hans

Hi Hans
You report nice things - a pleasure to read.

"The Game-Over Relay does not fire after the last (the fifth) Ball" - You have an Adjustment Switch (probably in the Back-Box) -> is this switch clean / is it (false / faulty) set "between three balls and five balls" ? are the wires soldered-on ? The Ball-count-Unit is in the Cabinet - so there is a Jones-plug in the backbox - can you follow the wire "Adj.-Switch <-> Jones plug" wire of SAME Color ! (Blue-Brown or maybe Blue-Red) -> Jones plug clean and wires soldered-on ?

"Flipperfinger still active after Game-Over": The Game-Over-Relay (when tripping) moves many switches - one switch that opens has wire-color-Black soldered-on, also the switch has wire-color-Blue-Yellow-White soldered-on -> Does this switch SECURELY OPEN ?

"When I fire the Reset-Relay manually ...": Does that mean: You cannot (yet) start a game by pushing the "Replay-Button" near /left of) the Coin-Door ? Please report.

"I start a 1-player game but the pin steps to player-2 -> -3 -> 4" - does that means: Player-1-Ball-1 -> Player-2-Ball-2 -> Player-3-Ball-3 -> Player-4-Ball-4 -> Player-4-Ball-5 ?

Unplug the 110 / 220 VAC Main-Power-Cord (Safety reason). Look at the Ball-Count Unit - move the plunger "Step-UP-Side" - see how the plunger / a hook moved by the plunger CLOSES A SWITCH ? --- Does this switch close ? is it clean ? wires soldered-on ? Take a screwdriver and hold it there - touching the two blades at the same time ONLY TOUCHING THE TWO BLADES OF THAT SWITCH !!!

OK, You got the feeling, NOW PLUG-IN the main power-cord an start a game -> reset -> first ball is given -> NOW take the screwdriver and touch both blades of that mentioned switch -> Does the "Player-RESET-RELAY" (RELAY !!!) fire ?
Please report. (Theory later) Greetings Rolf

Hi Rolf,

I am at the workshop today so i can work tonight at the machine but i understand what you mean

The Game-Over Relay does not fire after the last (the fifth) Ball" - You have an Adjustment Switch (probably in the Back-Box) -> is this switch clean / is it (false / faulty) set "between three balls and five balls" ? are the wires soldered-on ?
I have moved this switch from 5 to 3 and back but had never paid more attention to it because i had the idea it was working fine. This is a thing for tonight for sure.

For your other comments i have to look on what the machine is doing, so i will do this tonight also.

I have taken some photo's from the machine and attached this in this reply.

Some point i have to look further in is that on photo 9 the score relays are shown and what i have seen when i fire these manually is the following. I did this in 1 player mode.
Relay A = 1 points ( first reel )
Relay B = 10 points ( 2nd reel )
Relay C = 100 points ( 3rd reel )
Relay D = 1000 points ( 4th reel ) but also sometimes the relay B ( 2nd reel )
Relay E = doing nothing in 1 player mode but i do not know in player 2,3 or 4 mode.

I have the idea that it is wrong that relay D is moving 2 reels together in the same time or am i wrong ???

foto_1_(resized).JPG

foto_3_(resized).JPG

foto_2_(resized).JPG

foto_4_(resized).JPG

foto_5_(resized).JPG

foto_6_(resized).JPG

foto_7_(resized).JPG

foto_8_(resized).JPG

foto_9_(resized).JPG

During the restoration job of the Williams Cabaret i also found out that there are 2 types of light bulbs in the backbox.
I have the most common checked but replaced them with #47 light bulb to save the graphics at the back glass, but there are also some flashing bulbs in the back box with # 55 on it as far i can read this.

Does somebody know the Williams nr or what i can use for this type of bulbs because 2 of them are gone and i want to replace them with new ones.

Cheers,
Hans

Hi Rolf,

I think i have found a possible problem. Find attached a photo of the reset relay.

The strange thing is that i never touched the relays in the machine but i think what you see on the photo is wrong.

What do you think??

I did also a check on the ball 3-5 switch in the back box but this is oke.

cheers,
Hans

REST_RELAY_(resized).jpg

Hi Hans
it is getting late - just in short: You have found an error in the Manual (manual says: N.O) - True: in the pin and at schema-D3: Normally-Closed Switch.
More to come tomorrow Greetings Rolf

Hi Hans
I know lamps Number-44 (general - bright but getting hot) , Number-47 (general, mostly behind the Backglass - not so bright but als not so hot), Number-455 (flashing bulbs). There were some discussions (Restauration-forums) talking about LED (nowadays quite good "natural light" - costly ? - BUT NOT getting hot).

Thanks for the pictures. At the moment: NO IDEA - Do You push on the "armature / anchor plate" of Relay-D-1000-Point-Relay -> Does Relay-B (also) fire <-> ONLY the SCORE-REEL-10-Points is stepped ?

Sorry - I made You work "unneccessary" - look at my JPG: The "RED-Line" in the 3<->5 Adj. Switch is "Not doing a thing" - it is an "On<->OFF" Switch - making connection in 3-Ball-Mode ...

For to check "Does Game-Over-TRIP" fires ?: Do jumpering "violet" - You tip the gator-clip "just a moment" onto Transformer-YELLOW -> does it fire ? (I guess it will do (?)).
Please set PERMANENT Jumper "light-green (Schema), dark-green (Reality in the pin)".

See in the JPG (?): Line "yellow-brown" is "YELLOW" - the movement of "Ball-Count-Unit" will finally make connection. So this we want to jumper - IF (if, if) its NOT working: Problem is in the Ball-Count-Unit.
Greetings Rolf

aaaCabaret-Manual-18c_(resized).jpg

Hans, this D-contact is not a NO but a NC contact. So the relay looks ok, better measure the contacts.
Als je problemen houdt, kan ik eventueel ter plaatse assisteren.
Greatings

Hi Rolf,

Thank you. I will continue with the Cabaret tonight. I think the last option you give is giving me a good hope because i do think in the same direction with the ball count unit.
I keep you informed.

Cheers,
Hans

Hello Heldereflippers,

Yes in the machine it is NC but on the manual it is NO but i did understand from Rolf that the manual is wrong and the electrical scheme is correct and it should be a NC contact.
I have the electrical scheme connected to one paper a will check this tonight.

Thanks

Hoi Rolf,

I messaged you a littile movie from the Cabaret playing.
I get the back box running but you see that it is showing a 1 player game and this is also on the coin relay the setting, you see also that it jumps to player 3 ,4 and then to player 1 with ball 2 and then player 2,3,4 etc etc.
The video was to big to send over by mail but it is not going in game over after ball 5 in player 4 even it is in player 1 mode.

I don't know the answer maybe the movie cleared a bit the problem bit this a problem to upload and also on the PM . How can i upload this to show what is happening

Sorry i did edit this message twice now but i have put the video on you tube.
The adres is

The tags is cabaret pinball

Cheers Hans

Hi Rolf
This coil (M29-1000) is not firing when i jumpering with "Violet" in your Jpeg but when i do the movement manual the game over light is buring.

Can you tell me if there is a link between the 1 to 4 player set up and the ball count unit.

Schematics reading is not my strongest part, sorry. This costs me a lot of effort to understand, i am more a mechanical guy.

Hans

Hi Hans
please do also want what I want.
I want to play a 1-player game on "Cabaret" - start for ONE player and play five balls (not looking at problem "Game-Over").
Look at my JPG, a bit of theory: The Coin Unit is "as drawn in the JPG", the Player-Unit also. You have lost Ball-1 -> the pin wants to step-up - ALWAYS: the pin fires ONE shot of electricity towards the "Ball-Count Unit" (lower rosa-circle) - shortly afterwards the pin fires a second shot (upper rosa-circle). Depending on the settings: one or both shots reaches its unit(s).

We are in a 1-player game, shot-1 reaches "Ball-Count Unit UP". This Unit fires and at "End of travel": The plunger CLOSES A SWITCh (marked red in lower right corner) -> The "Player-Reset-Relay starts pulling - establishes a "Self-Hold-Circuitry" (through green marked) - IT PULLS - and so "my violet-marked part of switch on Player-Reset Relay" IS CLOSED - the second shot reaches "Player-Unit-RESET-SIDE" !!!

Hans, please unplug the pin and look at the Player-Reset Relay -> the Make-and-Brake-Switch (Middle-Blade-color-White-Red, Outer-Blades Green-Yellow and Yellow-Brown. Sneak-in a stripe of paper (for insulation) in between "White-Red <-> Yellow-Brown". With a Jumper-Wire make a PERMANENT CONNECTION "White-Red <-> Green-Yellow". This will not harm the pin.

Plug-in and start a ONE-PLAYER game -> You should be able to play "ONLY PLAYER-1 is playing". Please report.
Greetings Rolf

P.S.: I have written my post - WITHOUT NOTICING Your updated post-26 ... (More to come)

aaaCabaret-Changing_(resized).jpg

Hi Hans
"Game-Over-Relay-TRIP-Coil NOT firing" - You do Jumpering "violet" - no reaction - the coil might be damaged - a wire in the circuitry might be broken-off of a solder-Lug. Here: http://user.xmission.com/~daina/tips/pub/tip0124.html is a test - it works fine on "simple relays" - YOU have a "INTERLOCK-Relay" it might not show results due to "mechanics".

Well, in another "Topic" / "other problems" Steve Fury shows a wonderful "Test-Light for testing 24 Volt (Relays) Circuitry ((24 VOLT !!!),
Here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/reading-gottlieb-schematics post-12. In post-10 he writes about testing (I also made myself this handy tool). Buy two such "Car-12-Volt-bulbs" and do the wiring -> we will the test "does electricity reach "Coil on Game-Over-TRIP-Coil" ?
See the "light-blue" wiring ? We want to find out": Is THERE at the coil POWER ? -> we have a consumer (12 Volt Lamp + 12 Volt Lamp = 24 Volt Consumer) -> You tip on Transformer-YELLOW -> If there is Power at the coil: The test-light will light-up.
Greetings Rolf

aaaCabaret-Manual-18d_(resized).jpg

#28 reply.
Hello Rolf,

That is just the problem, please find a sequence on how it runs because i cannot play it with in a 1 player mode and then 5 balls only for player 1.
Sequence of operation.
1. I turn on the machine (with main switch ).
2. I set manually the machine in 1 player mode
3. I start the game with pushing the button on the front of the cabinet.
4. The machine jumps to a 2 player mode and i reset this manually to 1 player mode by pushing the coil on the coin unit so it jumps back
to 1 player.
5. I start playing and then it goes to play a 4 player game.
6. The sequence of ball couunt is oke. It is.
First round Player 1 – ball 1 Player 2 – ball 1 Player 3 – ball 1 Player 4 – ball 1
2nd round Player 1 – ball 2 Player 2 – ball 2 Player 3 – ball 2 Player 4 – ball 2
Continue like this to ball 5
5nd round Player 1 – ball 5 Player 2 – ball 5 Player 3 – ball 5 Player 4 – ball 5
No game over after Player 4 – ball 5
7. It continues with giving balls and the sequence as above but you don’t see the ball count lights at the backbox.
8. The whole sequence mentioned on item 6 is played in a player 1 mode.
See also the attcahed pictures and see that the lights at the bottom stays at 1 player.

I hope this clears a bit more. I find it an interesting problem to solve by the way.

foto_11_(resized).JPG

foto_10_(resized).JPG

foto_12_(resized).JPG

foto_13_(resized).JPG

Hi Hans
We can say "You have a problem on Start-Up (some work done by hand)" and "You have a problem at end (no switching to Game-Over).

AND WE CAN SAY "You have a beautyful pin RUNNING PERFECT IN 4-PLAYER-MODE" - very nice - it steps through the players -> -> ball -> players -> ball ... - Very nice.
Want to try out: Start a 4-player-game -> the Coin Unit should step to "Maximum" - Backbox should show "4 Players can play" (does it show this ?)

My suggestions in post-28 are OK - BUT as we know by now about "it plays a 4-player-game RIGHT" : lets look at the JPG HERE.
(((I believe the correct order of the pictures (post-30) is / should be: 2, 1, 3, 4 ...

Lets assume You have started a 4-player game -> -> Reset -> -> player-1-ball-1 -> player-2-ball-1 -> player-3-ball-1 -> player-4-ball-1 -> NOW:
"first shot" WORKS - the darkblue-line does the job, the Ball-Count-Unit-Step-UP-Coil fires (the Player-Reset-Relay fires and THROWS THE M&B-Switch) -> the "second shot, orange-line" activates the "Player-Unit-RESET-COIL" - beautiful: We ARE SURE: "darkblue-Line WORKS.

OK - we want a "1-player game" -> start a 1-player-game and do the jumpering:
- dashed brown line - We ONLY jumper / check: is the (original in the pin) WIRE faulty - and assume "connection inside Coin-Unit is good" -> Luck ? / No Luck ?

If "No Luck": Do jumpering "lightgreen": We check WIRE AND "CONNECTION in the Coin-Unit -> Luck ? No Luck ?

If "No Luck": Do jumpering "darkgreen": We forget (for the moment) the Coin-Unit - WE WANT TO PLAY A 1-PLAYER-GAME. Luck ? No Luck ?

Depending on your answer(s): We will look at places. After that: we will look at "Start-Problem", "Game-Over-Problem". Greetings Rolf

aaaCabaret-Changing3_(resized).jpg

Hi Rolf,

There is very good news. During the coffee after diner i was scrolling on the forum and by luck reading another threath on the forum ( williams grand prix stuck in fourth player ) and what i did read there was exactly the same issue there was with the Cabaret.
I did clean all the stepper already last week but yesterday i did take the player stepper and coin stepper out of the machine again and polished the rivets again but now with extra fine polishing paste , so it is really shining and bright.
What i also did see when i started to take out the coin stepper is that one of the fingers was probably just missing ( i am talking about a really minor miss ) the contact points at the bakelite plate. I did take an enhancement glass to have a real good look at it and indead it missed the 2nd player line and 3th player line on the bakelite plate. I think the miss was a 1/10 mm, with the eye it was not almost not noticable.
When i did found this i cleaned the coin unit the same way as the player unit and mounted the whole thing again and set the fingers in the correct position so i did know it was touching correctly

The firing of the game over relay was also problem and i did replaced it with another one because the original one was gone, the replacement was also giving problems ( as mentioned during the jumpering in the posts earlier ) so i put in a 3rd one (i do always buy back-up, back-up to be sure ) and put this one in.

The machine was turned ( at 23:45 ) on and the flag could fly because the machine is working as it just came out of the factory and i did play it for 1 hour to be sure there was no error and there is no problem at all anymore. I am a very very happy man.

I want to thank you for all you support and help you gave me and i will make a little movie and put this on youtube to show how the machine runs.

Cheers,
Hans

Hi Hans
great - the pin runs. In Your collection I see just the Cabaret - are You familiar with "setting the pin into state 'THIS way I like it' ?".
You can "change Voltage" unsolder "Power-Wire" off the transformer Lug - and solder-on nearby: On the transformer (24 VAC Power side) there are TWO lugs - "Normal-Low" <-> "High-Tap". Both positions are fine - on "High-Tap" the ball speeds around ...

Playfield-Angle (how steep) - williams advice: have the BOTTOM of the Cabinet horizontal - there is a built-in angle ...

"Pendulum-Tilt": I like to shake my pins -> I lower (put down towards earth) the weight ...

"Conservative <-> Liberal" means "Good for the arcaderoom-owner (more money) <-> Good for the player (more minutes per play) -> ipdb-Manual-page-10 -> there are pre-drilled holes -> you can unscrew the post and move it and screw-on in the other hole ...
I like my pins set to "Liberal".

Adjustments (Manual Page 8 / 9): I like to have the Number-Match feature (Endzahl-Freispiel) "ON" - I like 5 balls per play. ipdb-reproduction-Score-and-instruction says 5100 6200 7300 point for a Replay - I would set 3800 5100 6200 7300.
"Replay <-> Extraball <-> Novelty game" - I like to get rewarded with REPLAYS ...
"Super Bonus Adj. Switch" I recommend set it to "4".

Over the years I bought myself my "then (1968-78) loved darlings - some month ago I could buy the "last missing" - A CABARET ! A friend LIKES to do "restauration work" - (fine to me) - it is at his place - within a couple of week I will have my collection COMPLETE ...

(((Did You REALLY wade through all tis ?: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-grand-prix-stuck-in-four-player )))

Want to practica a bit in "Searching for the fault" ? Put some "clog / bedroom slipper" on the fingers (causing the problem) on the Units - You put the fault INTO THE PIN AGAIN (the insulated fingers have again NO contact).
Then try my "Jumpering, post-31" -> do the results lead You the "Result / solution": HERE ?

Greetings Rolf

Hi Rolf,

Yeah the pin is running smoothly now.

This is the only pinball machine i have, i am just new to this kind of things done last weeks. I am thinking of buying another one but first i am going to play and enjoy this one.

1. I have seen that there are two positions on the transformer but i leave it in the normal lug.
2. I have the machine standing with the cabinet bottom horizontal, i did this already . My idea was that if the bottom cabinet is horizontal i will have the correct angle of the playing field. This is what i should do in my shop if i build something like this.
3. The Tilt i have disabled it so it can not go on Tilt.
4. The setting of the liberal and conservative is one thing i did see in the manual and i did put this on liberal, all the rubber stands are moved to liberal.
5. Yeah i do like to replay also and it is set that way but did not have a good look at the amount starting 5100 or staring 3800, and the super bonus adjustment i don't now, i will have look at this tonight.

Yeah i did read the whole threath about the Grand Prix and that triggered me to do the polishing even better, and this brought me the missing connections on the coin unit.

I will have a look at the jumpering mentioned on post 31, and i think it will give the same fault again because that would be logical.

Cheers,
Hans

Hi Rolf,

Something else. I will maybe buy another pinball machine if i can confince my wife that it will look very nice next to the Cabaret.
I have the Cabaret standing in the living room as a piece of ( working ) art and the work i have done on it was also done in the living room with all the space needed for it. My wife has no problem at all with it so lucky me.
We have enough space so that's not the problem but what would be for you a machine model ( EM anyway) what you think wow that's nice with the Cabaret.

Hans

Hi Hans
I hesitated - I "put off" writing about "WHAT" pin to buy - I guess every pin is somebodys Number One. I like Drop-Down-Targets, so I have some Gottliebs. I decided NOT to buy "Bally" - so I only have to have spare parts for Williams and Gottliebs. I call myself a "Nostalgic" - not a "Collector" - over the years I could buy my "then loved darlings (late 60ies / 70ies) (might want to see my collection in pinside ?)".

What pin to buy ? If You are young and "not have played these then-new pins" - Best would be: Play it - does it grabs You ? Do You want "fixing pins" as a hobby ? Williams and Bally are rather easy to work on - Gottliebs can give problems ... Do You want 3-inch flipperfinger pins or 2-inch flipperfinger pins ?

Ratings an COMMENTS are good - pinside has - ipdb has. Example my Number One "Far Out":
http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=823 -> 14 ratings and 11 comments -> http://www.ipdb.org/rate/showrate.pl?gid=823 -> I look for (Overall and) "Game Play" (I want to play)
Here: http://www.pinrepair.com/ - he has nice "Evolution": http://www.pinrepair.com/gtb/ , http://www.pinrepair.com/wmswood/index.htm

ipdb.org is the place to look-up pins - the "advanced search" feature is VERY helpful. I give some examples
First example I WOULD NOT do such a search: http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?searchtype=advanced -> THIS is NOT a good search: http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?gtype=EM&mfgid=410&yr=1962-77&sortby=date&searchtype=advanced (ipdb shows ONLY a list of 225 pins ...)

These are good searches:
http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?gtype=EM&mfgid=410&yr=1968&sortby=date&searchtype=advanced shows all Gottliebs of 1968 -> You look through the list and CAN see the pictures.

A Williams search: http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?gtype=EM&mfgid=413&yr=1969-70&sortby=date&searchtype=advanced

A Bally search: http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?gtype=EM&mfgid=412&yr=1973&sortby=date&searchtype=advanced (((see the last pin in the list - the "Ro Go" (?) - it has a rating of only 5.4, I also do not like the Ro Go - BUT user ovfdfireman rated it 9 out of 10 --- EVERY pin is nice - he loves his Ro Go --- I love my pins ...

I only mentioned Bally, Gottlieb, Williams - chances are: Your second pin will be from these companies. There are other manufacturer - fun pins - maybe hard to get parts (?).

I like Drop-Down-Targets, Gates, Spinning Targets, Swinging Targets, Kickout-Holes, 2-inch flipperfingers and 3-inch flipperfingers - some speciality like a "selector disk" or (my Fan-Tas-Tic: ) Roulette-Wheel, unfortunately for me this is a Bally: http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=2262 it has a funny "Time Tunnel" (I remember).

To end my writing: I am looking forward to have MY "Cabaret" running.
As I actually played such machines (late 60ies): I bought myself an "Ice Revue": http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=1262 , it has really 5 balls, a Ball-Lifter: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1262&picno=28043&zoom=1
AND for to know "how many balls I have played" I must look and count: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1262&picno=1202 ... its good to have my Ice Revue - it is a fun game - as the "only pin I have": I'd prefer: Far Out, Big Deal, Surf Champ, Fun Fest, Shangri-La (my first love) ...
Greetings Rolf

Hi Rolf,

It take some time to respond again but work was consuming it so i had no time to work on machines but i did had the luck to find 3 machines to get a bit more work .
I did get the hand on an Aces@Kings , Fan Tas Tic and a Student Prince so this will be the first projects for the coming period.