(Topic ID: 242952)

1967 Williams Lunar Shot Coin Relay Locked On (Scoring motor issue maybe?)

By Doc4421

5 days ago

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  • 6 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 hours ago by Doc4421
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0Apollo-Work-01 (resized).jpg

#1 5 days ago

Hi Folks,
I read the rules and I believe I'm in the right place. If not, I'm sorry. It's my first post here for tech help and I've been working on it a bit with the help of a buddy via Facebook chat and he told me posting here would be a good idea.

As per newbie posting rules:
- This is the first EM game I owned. It was working when I bought it on Sunday. We moved it in, played it and it worked. This happened last night (Monday) in the middle of a game.
- I have the schematics, but I'm still learning to read them.
- I have a DMM, as I work on cars and home electric stuff, but I've not used one here.
- I have a soldering gun and can solder functionally well as needed.
- The machine looks original in terms of wiring with no notable rewires etc. or bad cuts (I'm judging based on what I saw in redoing my 1968 Mustang, where half-@$$ mechanic work is easy to spot)
- I am willing to try anything you tell me to try, but I'm sure I'm not anywhere close to fluent in the lingo, so abbreviations etc. are likely to go over my head for a while, but I'm totally willing to learn.

So here's the short version: I wanted to buy a 1960s Kickoff machine from a reputable pin guy. My kid thought the Lunar Shot looked amazing (she's right) even though it came from a rando on Craigslist. I played the Lunar Shot at his house for about a half hour and it worked fine (minor buzz from inside the machine, but nothing that impeded play that I could tell.)

Brought it home Sunday. Played it all night with no problem. Played it Monday night up until the the machine just started buzzing louder and louder and then the flippers wouldn't work, the start button wouldn't work and none of the bumpers or anything like that would respond to the ball. Outhole also wouldn't respond. The lights are all still on, both in the head and on the playing field.

Opened up the machine and got in touch with my buddy, Jason, who has rebuilt squillions of these things. After some trial and error, he noted that the coin relay was locked on. We walked through the various switches from the coin door and credit button to no avail. The schematic showed him that the coin relay took a path through the ball counter, so I manipulated the counter up and down and that didn't impact the situation. At that point, he suggested I take a video of it and show what it is doing, which I have done and posted here:

Any suggestions or help would be EXTREMELY appreciated. My great hope is that I'll learn enough over time to really enjoy these beasts and get good enough to pay it forward.


Vince (Doc4421)

UPDATE: Jason told me, "I was wondering when you said the machine kind of felt like it slowed down. Has the Scoring Motor moved at all during all the time you've been messing with this?" Nope. "Can you manually move it?" Nope. It feel locked like the motors on old record players I've worked on etc. When I do manage to wiggle it, however, it does alter the buzzing based on my movements. (As a total guess, I'm wondering if they're related...) Scoring Motor does get warm and eventually quite warm when I leave it on while putzing with the other switches.

On those old clock and record player motors, I used some Liquid Ball Bearings to eat through the grease and crud that led to the lock up. Obviously this is different, so I'm wondering if a similar thing will work or not. Also, wondering if I'm totally screwed. Thanks...

#2 5 days ago

I unplugged my Blast Off’s score motor with the service jack and started a game. Three relays engage: the coin relay, the reset relay, and the game interlock relay. It stalls there, obviously, because the score motor can’t turn and do its work. We know your game is pulling in at least two of those relays. What about your reset relay?

#3 5 days ago
Quoted from leckmeck:

I unplugged my Blast Off’s score motor with the service jack and started a game. Three relays engage: the coin relay, the reset relay, and the game interlock relay. It stalls there, obviously, because the score motor can’t turn and do its work. We know your game is pulling in at least two of those relays. What about your reset relay?

Thanks for doing that! The score motor on mine DOES NOT MOVE at all. The coin, reset and lock relays all engage. When I use the plastic comb thing on the switches (I need a term for that) to break the contact on the coin relay, the next relay (reset) kicks in. Then, when I do it again, the lock relay kicks in. When I break that switch's contact, the power goes off.

Think it's the motor?

#4 4 days ago

I saw the ad came down for Lunar Shot. Congratulations, it is a cool game. I was kind of thinking about it but like the cab art on Blastoff better. Still got the Kickoff.

Anyway, when I get one of these random homeowner games I usually go through from top to bottom. It probably hasn't been serviced in a long time. I wonder if the buzzing you heard was a locked coil that eventually popped a fuse. I'd check the fuses and if you find a burnt one you can replace it but may need a coil as well. Sorry there may be more detail to help diagnose in your video but I can't hear it at work.

#5 4 days ago

Hi Vince
I do not have the schematics to "Lunar Sot" - I look up in "Apollo" --- DANGER: The Coin-Relay is operated by line-current, 110VAC. Also some switches on the Coin-Relay handle line-current. Other switches on relays handle line-current. Please wear rubber gloves when You fumble around in the "pin beeing plugged-in".
See the JPG - the Coin-Relay on Apollo is made to quit pulling by the turning Score-Motor opening "5B". On Apollo we can use a little trick - we (wear rubber gloves and) press down the "upmost blade on Score-Motor-Index-Cam as mounted in the cabinet in the pin to make the motor to start running.
Please look in Your schematics - look for text "motor run" on the drawing of Index-Wheel - are we lucky and it is also switch "D" with the topmost switchblade ? So when Your pin is humming and the Coin-Relay pulling: Wear rubber gloves, close that switch - questions: Does the motor runs ? and then stops ? and maybe the Score-Drums reset ? and what else ? Greetings Rolf

0Apollo-Work-01 (resized).jpg
#6 9 hours ago


Thanks for all your help on this! I got it solved and it was actually something I understood: The motor had so much crud in it, it had jammed up and refused to reset the scoring tumblers. I pulled the motor, cleaned out the crud and got the gears spinning again. I reinstalled it and got it soldered in there and all was functional again. I took this opportunity to redo the rubbers and burned out lights. She's pretty now! Thanks for everything

Vince (Doc4421)

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