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(Topic ID: 206087)

1967 Midway Monster Gun repair and restoration


By dudah

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 142 posts
  • 31 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by dudah
  • Topic is favorited by 18 Pinsiders

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    There are 142 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
    #51 2 years ago

    Lined up my vector art against a clear shot of the side I found on the internet.
    Scaled that in Illustrator, scaled the vector art, exported the different colors.
    Imported into Silhouette Studio and printed out.
    Here's the left side purple:

    mg side print (resized).JPGIMG_20180924_165048 (resized).jpg

    #52 2 years ago

    I got 2 20 ft rolls of Oramask for $27. Each side's color is about 5 ft. So doing the whole game should cost roughly $13 in materials, not bad!
    That is if I don't mess up and need to reprint

    #53 2 years ago

    I spoke too soon! Didn't line up my first shot at red quite right when loading it into the Cameo and it got all botched. Here's try #2

    IMG_20180924_173111 (resized).jpg
    #54 2 years ago

    Got the others done. One more set for the right side and I'm ready to roll!

    IMG_20180924_181946 (resized).jpgMVIMG_20180924_183259 (resized).jpg
    #55 2 years ago

    Got a 15 gallon 3.5 HP compressor off Craigslist. Dude said it worked, showed up and it didn't. I had already drove there so offered him $20 for it and he accepted. Tested a bad capacitor, replaced it with a $10 eBay one and works great! Keeps up with my air orbital sander no problem...

    IMG_20180926_204109_159 (resized).jpgMVIMG_20180926_203614 (resized).jpg
    #56 2 years ago

    Looks great!! I hate stencils

    1 month later
    #57 2 years ago

    There is one of these for sale locally so I had to check your thread out to see what I may get into, and it looks like a lot of work and sourcing parts could be difficult. I may have to pass on this one.

    #58 2 years ago
    Quoted from Rascal-911:

    There is one of these for sale locally so I had to check your thread out to see what I may get into, and it looks like a lot of work and sourcing parts could be difficult. I may have to pass on this one.

    If it's complete and the score motor isn't all gummed up, it's a worthwhile project! If you can get it for under $250 definitely worth it. Shoot some pictures over to me if you want me to tell you if its complete.

    #59 2 years ago
    Quoted from Rascal-911:

    There is one of these for sale locally so I had to check your thread out to see what I may get into, and it looks like a lot of work and sourcing parts could be difficult. I may have to pass on this one.

    Oh man, I saw the same one on Kijiji. I would totally grab it if I had the money and time for it. I would love one for my collection.

    #60 2 years ago
    Quoted from NovaPin:

    Oh man, I saw the same one on Kijiji. I would totally grab it if I had the money and time for it. I would love one for my collection.

    Hey bud, hows things up in Digby?
    My problem is the time. I already have a project gun game (Exidy Crackshot, want a good deal?) that I will never have time for. Not to mention lots of pins in need of maintenance. I passed on a Midway Aladdin EM gun game years ago, but looking back I am sorry I didn't buy it but really, the one I want is the Midway Haunted House.

    #61 2 years ago
    Quoted from dudah:

    If it's complete and the score motor isn't all gummed up, it's a worthwhile project! If you can get it for under $250 definitely worth it. Shoot some pictures over to me if you want me to tell you if its complete.

    The seller tells me it will start and run but his price was $400 and I foresee a nightmare finding used parts.

    https://www.kijiji.ca/v-art-collectibles/bedford/midway-monster-gun-rifle-game/1393919551?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

    #62 2 years ago

    Primed! It actually came primed but I did some more bondo.

    IMG_20181110_164537 (resized).jpg
    #63 2 years ago

    Hi, I actually just picked up the monster gun that @rascal-911 and @novapin (sorry if you were still thinking about picking it up) were talking about, the owner ended up dropping the price to $300 in their latest repost for the game. The motor seems to work, he was able to start it up so the targets were rotating.

    I have a couple questions related to it since I've never worked on an EM rifle before, hope that is okay to post in this thread. I have worked on an EM pinball before though. Are there any general posts or websites that could get me caught up to speed on these EM rifle games? I just bought the schematics but I won't have them for a couple weeks probably, had to buy it from the US (I live in Canada). Is there any parts catalog for these games too?

    One thing the game needs is a stylus/spring. I was looking at flippers.com (https://www.flippers.com/catalog/product_info.php/stylus-p-843) and they sell stylus but they have 2 different lengths (7/8 inch and 1-1/8 inch). So I was wondering which size would be used for monster gun. I've attached a picture of what I have included where the stylus is installed in case that is useful. So I was also wondering what I needed for the spring, is there a particular one I should get? Also, I'm kind of confused as to the purpose of the spring, could someone explain that for me?

    Thanks!

    EM rifle gun (resized).JPG
    #64 2 years ago

    I love reading restores on these! Thanks for documenting yours. It’s helps get my excitement up to do my gun game

    #65 2 years ago
    Quoted from cperro:

    Hi, I actually just picked up the monster gun that @rascal-911 and @novapin (sorry if you were still thinking about picking it up) were talking about, the owner ended up dropping the price to $300 in their latest repost for the game.
    [quoted image]

    Man that's awsome! I'm glad someone got it who is going to give it the attention it deserves! Congrats!

    #66 2 years ago

    This topic is equalling inspiring and intimidating as I procrastinate working on my formerly working Space Gun!

    Thanks for sharing!

    I wonder if the Pinside admins could allow us to add EM Arcade games to our collections in our profiles so we can see other users who have these machines? These machines are such fascinating and fun relics and information about them is really hard to find.

    #67 2 years ago

    novapin Thanks! I hope it turns out really good. I wasn't actually looking to get one of these but when I saw it on kijiji I had the urge to get it, also I currently just finished up fixing a Raven so I was all out of projects.

    I posted this in a separate topic but I was wondering if anyone knows how the stylus works, in particular, I was wondering if it is always touching the board with the traces? Currently I'm guessing this is the case but I don't know for sure. And does the spring just hold the stylus in place? Thanks.

    #68 2 years ago
    Quoted from cperro:

    novapin Thanks! I hope it turns out really good. I wasn't actually looking to get one of these but when I saw it on kijiji I had the urge to get it, also I currently just finished up fixing a Raven so I was all out of projects.
    I posted this in a separate topic but I was wondering if anyone knows how the stylus works, in particular, I was wondering if it is always touching the board with the traces? Currently I'm guessing this is the case but I don't know for sure. And does the spring just hold the stylus in place? Thanks.

    The stylus is always touching the board. When it's lined up right it makes contact with one of the pads on the board and completes a circuit. I haven't dove into the electrical logic part of this yet, that will be a whole other adventure

    #69 2 years ago

    Thanks dudah. Do you also happen to know what coil is needed for the recoil mechanism on the rifle? Still waiting for my schematics and I couldn't immediately see a number on the coil that's already with the rifle.

    Edit: I may have found something on the coil that says G 22 1150? It's a bit hard to read. I haven't been able find this particular coil online either so if thats the case were you able to use a substitute. I've seen a williams D 22 1150 but don't know if that would actually be the same physical size. Any Suggestions?

    #70 2 years ago

    Check either pinrepair or pin Wiki to understand coil numbers better. The letter is a bobbin size, the next two numbers are the wire gauge, and the last number is the number of turns.

    Quoted from cperro:Thanks dudah. Do you also happen to know what coil is needed for the recoil mechanism on the rifle? Still waiting for my schematics and I couldn't immediately see a number on the coil that's already with the rifle.
    Edit: I may have found something on the coil that says G 22 1150? It's a bit hard to read. I haven't been able find this particular coil online either so if thats the case were you able to use a substitute. I've seen a williams D 22 1150 but don't know if that would actually be the same physical size. Any Suggestions?

    #71 2 years ago

    @stashyboy Thanks. I think I'll just have to look around and see whats available online that may be able to replace that. I'm not 100% sure that the letter in front stands for the size for midway coils since flippers.com shows different midway coils starting with G that are clearly different sizes. I'll have to look into this further.

    Also, I was still wondering if anyone knows the type of spring to get with the stylus I have linked earlier in post #63 (https://www.flippers.com/catalog/product_info.php/stylus-p-843). Still don't know what would fit the stylus.

    6 months later
    #72 1 year ago

    I've got a lot of projects going on right now. Unfortunately house stuff has been taking priority.
    Hoping to have some time to finish this up soon!
    On a lighter note, I picked up another Monster Gun today locally! Guy had it in his basement for the last 30 years.
    Despite the 44 thousand plays, still looks very nice!
    More so, it's complete except the backglass.

    The rifle is plastic and looks very factory, it says "remington 12" on the bottom. Were these ever used? It fits on the metal trigger assembly perfect.

    Plugged it in and it appears to work!
    More news soon...

    IMG_20190527_005246 (resized).jpgMVIMG_20190527_004445 (resized).jpgIMG_20190527_004459 (resized).jpgIMG_20190527_004534 (resized).jpg
    1 week later
    #73 1 year ago

    Finally decent weather in Chicago!
    Seized some free time with the girlfriend out of town to clean up the garage and lay down the webbing layer!

    Followed this thread exactly: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/homebrew-webbing-step-by-step
    25% glue, 10% thinner, 65% paint.
    I just eyeballed the ratio and then dialed it in on the paint gun.
    Did a few test shots on some cardboard then rolled the games in!
    I noted on my stock monster gun the webbing amount up close, I was going for very fine webbing but also fairly dense.
    Very satisfied with the results!

    DSCN4773 (resized).JPGDSCN4774 (resized).JPG
    #74 1 year ago
    Quoted from dudah:

    Finally decent weather in Chicago!
    Seized some free time with the girlfriend out of town to clean up the garage and lay down the webbing layer!
    Followed this thread exactly: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/homebrew-webbing-step-by-step
    25% glue, 10% thinner, 65% paint.
    I just eyeballed the ratio and then dialed it in on the paint gun.
    Did a few test shots on some cardboard then rolled the games in!
    I noted on my stock monster gun the webbing amount up close, I was going for very fine webbing but also fairly dense.
    Very satisfied with the results![quoted image][quoted image]

    Nice job on the webbing.

    #75 1 year ago

    Went back in for black on the base!

    DSCN4780 (resized).JPG
    #76 1 year ago

    WOW!! Your webbing job is just perfect!!!

    #77 1 year ago
    Quoted from AMX:

    WOW!! Your webbing job is just perfect!!!

    Thank you!!!

    #78 1 year ago

    Laid down purple!
    I had put down the stencils yesterday which took about 90 minutes.
    The Oramask only being 12" wide means I have to piece in the art that's wider.
    It's a bit of a pain, but I got pretty good and consistent results.
    I did do a bit of cleaning up overlap with a razor blade as I applied it.

    My whole painting setup has to break down so my girlfriend can park her car in the garage every night (Tesla).
    The "spray booth" (which is a bunch of plastic hanging from some wood 2x2's I hung) gets tucked into the rafters.
    Setting everything up, painting, cleaning up the paint stuff, and concealing the whole setup took just a little over an hour!

    I really only sprayed one cabinet last fall, I forgot how nicely the latex paint cleans up!
    I thinned it by about 15% and that seemed to be a bit much. I was worried it would run after inspecting the first solid coat, but it dried fine.
    The 6 foot view is very nice, but looking closely the edges are ALL fucked up.
    I'm guessing applying the Oramask the night before was a mistake.
    It's strange because most of the stencils looked very well adhered to the cabinet.

    Lesson for next time - thin the paint less and apply the stencils right before painting.

    I also noticed a bit of overspray.
    It had already dried but I googled you can use some rubbing alcohol on a rag to clean it up.
    Since it was so minimal/so dry, it's better but still obvious where I was rubbing.
    Will probably spray a little more white to conceal it.

    Another lesson for next time - mask better, and pull stencils right after spraying and inspect for overspray.

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    #79 1 year ago

    2 types of stencil material available.. Hi tac and Lo tac.. make sure you are using the Hi.
    Also, mist coat first and allow to dry, then a light top coat and you should avoid the leeching you see on the edges

    #80 1 year ago
    Quoted from Retropin:

    2 types of stencil material available.. Hi tac and Lo tac.. make sure you are using the Hi.
    Also, mist coat first and allow to dry, then a light top coat and you should avoid the leeching you see on the edges

    Will do! Thanks!

    #81 1 year ago

    Took an hour plus today and cleaned up half the art.
    Taped on the ends and used a long metal straight edge and an airbrush.
    Well worth the effort.
    Even got some tasteful overspray out of it!
    Fortunately, lots of straight lines. I'm going to try to finish the other art and all the curves with a brush tomorrow.
    Here's a before and after:

    IMG_20190608_101911 (resized).jpgIMG_20190608_231825 (resized).jpg
    #82 1 year ago

    Girlfriend and I knocked out the rest of the purple touchups in about an hour this morning. She did the curves with a brush while I did the rest of the straight lines with the straight edge. I didn't get any after photos but it looks much better!!

    DSCN4792 (resized).JPG
    #83 1 year ago

    Took 90 minutes to apply the stencils and mask off.
    Not all the stencils aligned perfectly like I had hoped, I'd guess the Cameo isn't quite as accurate in much longer cuts.
    Because of this, I separated large chunks and applied them individually.
    Easier than one massive stencil getting caught up itself, but still lots of time doing masking.

    DSCN4807 (resized).JPGDSCN4810 (resized).JPGDSCN4811 (resized).JPG
    #84 1 year ago

    Realized I need to still cut a back door, as well as forgot to paint the metal access panel.
    Applied some Citrastrip to it and an hour later scooped it all off in one sweep, very satisfying!

    DSCN4794 (resized).JPGDSCN4802 (resized).JPGDSCN4803 (resized).JPG
    #85 1 year ago

    Aaaand painted!
    Was a bit of a pain, had to lay down like 10 light coats with some drying time in between.
    Even still, the red didn't cover the purple and barely covered the webbing.
    Some good overspray, some bad overspray to fix, one spot where I foolishly forgot to mask.
    Overall I'm very happy with it.

    DSCN4861 (resized).JPGDSCN4862 (resized).JPGDSCN4863 (resized).JPGDSCN4864 (resized).JPGDSCN4865 (resized).JPGDSCN4866 (resized).JPGDSCN4867 (resized).JPG
    #86 1 year ago

    Here's a little timelapse I recorded setting up the paint gun

    #87 1 year ago

    Touched up some purple with the airbrush
    Then figured out the bottom - the chains are easily removed by removing the gears from the bottom end. Cleaned them in brake cleaner and relubed with a teflon chain lube I use on my motorcycle. Popped the targets back in the game for the first time in over a year!

    IMG_20190612_171954 (resized).jpg
    1 week later
    #88 1 year ago

    Since one of these will need a backglass, I started working on the art.
    This is a quick mockup of the colors, still a lot of work cleaning up the image.

    bg (resized).JPG
    1 week later
    #89 1 year ago

    Some more time spent Photoshopping...

    Capture (resized).JPG
    1 week later
    #90 1 year ago

    Found a link to the 1967 Midway parts manual, has a nice exploded view of the score reels should I have to take it apart...
    http://backglass.org/williams/kordek_archives/midway_1967_parts_catalog_300.pdf

    #91 1 year ago

    Thank you for posting your progress with this project, everything is turning out great, and the Midway parts manual was a cool find. I recently purchased a Monster Gun, and even though it almost has 52,000 plays, most of the internal mechanisms are in incredible condition, almost new looking, but it looks original. The panels also have labels for the placement and purpose of every part, and all of the relay coils still have the part numbers attached. So if you ever need some pics of anything for comparison let me know. Keep up the good work

    #92 1 year ago

    I'd love to see pictures when you get a chance!

    1 week later
    #93 1 year ago

    Knocked out a bunch of random stuff today:

    Reassembled the motor for MG1
    Reattached the gun for MG2
    Cleaned and relubed all the steppers and stylus contact plates
    Took apart the motor assembly, cleaned out all the old grease with brake cleaner and 100 qtips, relubed with superlube
    Put the motor on the target assembly from MG2 and put that in the cabinet

    Powered her up!
    It coins up but doesn't start the game successfully, and isn't resetting
    I can advance the stepper and hit some coils to get it to start a game
    It registers hits!
    A game ends
    I need to dig up the schematic and dive into that, hopefully won't be too bad
    The score motor assembly looks good, contacts aren't terrible, everything seems to move freely
    Thinking I'll just do a couple drops of 3-in-1 oil on the leather clutches and call it a day

    I still need a few small things to get MG1 reassembled
    Figured it'd be good to have them side by side to troubleshoot the game operation
    I've already referenced a bunch of other little things between the two
    MG1 is missing a rheostat (has the mounting holes), good to have MG2 to measure the value

    I had previously CitraStripped the varnish off of the rifle(s)
    Let it sit overnight with shrink wrap on it, scraped it off the next day with an old hotel key card - flexible scraper!
    The old varnish was real nasty, smelled like day old piss that was rotting in the sun
    Sanded and is now ready for stain and varnish!

    IMG_20190717_151642 (resized).jpgDSCN4895 (resized).JPGIMG_20190711_195952 (resized).jpgDSCN4911 (resized).JPGIMG_20190717_180031 (resized).jpg
    #94 1 year ago

    Artwork is coming along!
    It looks much better at 600dpi in Photoshop

    mg (Custom) (Custom) (Custom) (resized).jpg
    1 week later
    #95 1 year ago

    Been real busy but have been able to knock out a bunch of little stuff in the past week:

    1. Backglass art is pretty much done! I still need to figure out the light masking layer. May just not do it. Or may do it with a vinyl cutout from the Silhuoette Cameo.

    2. Got some stain and sealer. Directions say to sand up to 220 so need to do that first.

    3. MG1 is almost done being reassembled. Need to get the motor mounted and tested.

    4. Getting MG2 working and sold is top priority. I am out of space. I plugged it in and tried playing a game. It seems to work 90%! One of the motors isn't turning but pretty sure I forgot to solder the leads back in. It runs through the stepper fine, it knocks down and properly scores the targets. The score reel motor assembly looks pretty good! I'm going to lightly lube it with 3-in-1 oil and call it a day.

    #96 1 year ago
    Quoted from dudah:

    Artwork is coming along!
    It looks much better at 600dpi in Photoshop[quoted image]

    Just out of curiosity what is the overall cost savings of creating your own BG rather getting one from BG resto? I think they have already done that game.

    #97 1 year ago
    Quoted from Murphdom:

    Just out of curiosity what is the overall cost savings of creating your own BG rather getting one from BG resto? I think they have already done that game.

    From what I know, BGresto is $300+shipping and he takes a few months to turn it around.
    Printing should be around $40 shipped and maybe another $10 for the PETG/plexi window.
    Not as nice as a backglass, but certainly very cheap.

    I'm doing this more-so as practice to put some new tools in my toolbox.
    And because I'm cheap
    I learned a lot of new tricks in Photoshop and feel much more comfortable with my skills in there.
    The downside is I easily have 10 hours invested so far in the artwork prep.

    #98 1 year ago
    Quoted from dudah:

    From what I know, BGresto is $300+shipping and he takes a few months to turn it around.

    Can confirm. Product is pretty nice though.
    Hope yours comes out well. Your art looks good.

    #99 1 year ago
    Quoted from dudah:

    From what I know, BGresto is $300+shipping and he takes a few months to turn it around.
    Printing should be around $40 shipped and maybe another $10 for the PETG/plexi window.
    Not as nice as a backglass, but certainly very cheap.
    I'm doing this more-so as practice to put some new tools in my toolbox.
    And because I'm cheap
    I learned a lot of new tricks in Photoshop and feel much more comfortable with my skills in there.
    The downside is I easily have 10 hours invested so far in the artwork prep.

    Thanks for the info. I was just curious of the overall cost in case I want to do something similar in the future.You may have 10 plus hours into the art but it’s rewarding knowing that you did it yourself. I know that BG resto charges $295 with shipping for an authorized Bally/Williams BG so that’s a big savings.

    #100 1 year ago

    Been traveling a lot for work, finally home for a few days!
    Took a few hours and did a bunch of cleanup in the garage.
    Got MG2 wired up for the motors and tested. Everything works great!
    Played a few games and was impressed with how fun it was. The reversing and speed of the outside targets is very challenging.
    There's also a rheostat inside that I cranked up to the fastest speed!

    The only problem is the score motor keeps running after a game is over and the game over relay is latched on.
    While I can't find the schematic, I do have some backups I've scanned.

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