(Topic ID: 203045)

1966 Williams 8 Ball Project

By Shredso

6 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 24 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by HowardR
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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0Happy-Clown-Backbox (resized).jpg
#1 6 years ago

I've been chipping away at this project forever. I'm at the point where I'm ready to either get it working soon, or unload it. It's preventing me from getting to projects I would enjoy more. Maybe the EM gurus can help?!

I'll start with a couple (hopefully) easy ones.

1. I can't figure out where to attach the jones plugs to the cabinet. I found this picture on IPDB. It looks like it's hanging on a scrap of wood. That can't be right can it?

http://ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=764&picno=57549&zoom=1

2. I remember from working on another EM a long time ago (Gottlieb I think) that you could troubleshoot the reset without the playfield in. Is that the case in all EM's or do I have to attach the playfield?

#2 6 years ago

1. What does your backbox look like? There should be two spots for jones plugs. 2. I would attach the playfield to make sure everything resets correctly and to make sure you don't have any sticky switches, RO's, etc.

#3 6 years ago

1. There is no room in the backbox and no empty screw holes. I just watched a pinball Ninja video of him fixing the same game and all the wires appear to dive into the cabinet.

2. I'll try with the playfield in and see what happens. I get no action from score reels at all so don't have high hopes.

#4 6 years ago

Well isn't this odd: http://ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=764&picno=31109&zoom=1 Looks like the jones plugs go down and plug into the back bottom of the cabinet. Are there receptors for them there?

#5 6 years ago

Hi Shredso +
I once bought a spare part "Insert into the Backbox of an Gottlieb Happy Clown" --- all I have is what You see in my JPG. Also look at http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1114&picno=24100 .

I believe to have seen once in an pin I do not remember what pin it was --- have seen that piece of wood was loose put at the same place as ipdb shows here http://ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=764&picno=31109&zoom=1 --- I thought it was an Rockmakers or an Dancing Lady or an Liberty Belle --- ipdb-pictures do not clarify.

Your problem 1. : Do You have such a piece of wood with sockets mounted ? What do You have on the bottom of the cabinet ? Greetings Rolf

0Happy-Clown-Backbox (resized).jpg0Happy-Clown-Backbox (resized).jpg

#6 6 years ago

I have the plugs and receptacles. I have them plugged in currently. They are just floating though. I will find a scrap of plywood like the pics. I still haven't tried it with the playfield in, but I was hoping to get some action from the score reels. I figured those would reset without the playfield present if everything was working properly.

#7 6 years ago

Several machines used that board that just got tossed into the back of the base cabinet to make Jones Plug connections. Basically because head was so full they added the piece of "scrap wood" to hold the female plugs on some machines. Kind of an "odd" way of doing things but they did what they had to with big Jones Plugs & no room in backbox for them. It isn't a hack and that board does not bolt to anything - it just drops into the base cabinet below the head.

#8 6 years ago

Good to know. I thought I was losing my mind not being able to find screw holes.

Now I'm working on start up. Game and Game over relays drop when I hit the start button. The score motor never runs. From the limited knowledge I have I'm thinking my issue is either game over or reset relay? I plan on printing the schematics on the large printer at work tomorrow.

In the mean time I will continue cleaning and adjusting those relays unless someone has other suggestions.

If I bump the score motor, it does run.

#9 6 years ago
Quoted from Shredso:

Game and Game over relays drop when I hit the start button. The score motor never runs

Which if any of these is activating?

The Replay button should activate
the Replay relay which should activate
the Coin relay which should activate
the Reset relay which should activate
the Motor.

#10 6 years ago

Looks like it starts off with reset relay to coin relay to SM2B and a bank reset, so check those.

#11 6 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Which if any of these is activating?
The Replay button should activate
the Replay relay which should activate
the Coin relay which should activate
the Reset relay which should activate
the Motor.

replay relay is activating. Coin relay is activating. Reset relay is not pulling in, but if I manually push it, it holds but does nothing more.

#12 6 years ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Looks like it starts off with reset relay to coin relay to SM2B and a bank reset, so check those.

Is 2B referring to a switch on the score motor? I don't see any labels on them. How do I identify 2b?

Edit: Found the explanation in the manual. 2B seems to be correct. If I manually press the score motor run, it runs one revolution, reset relay pulls in, the big coil resets the bank, and I get some clicking in the backbox (I'm pretty sure it's the score reset relay).

#13 6 years ago
Quoted from Shredso:

replay relay is activating. Coin relay is activating. Reset relay is not pulling in, but if I manually push it, it holds but does nothing more.

This switch on the Coin relay should run the motor

Pinball (resized).pngPinball (resized).png

#14 6 years ago

Progress! I was not getting continuity from the orange yellow on the coin relay to the score motor. I found a broken wire on another relay. Soldered it back on, now the score motor runs! I'm starting to understand this EM thing a little more now.

It runs continuously, and no score reels are moving. I will resume troubleshooting tomorrow on the score reels. Thanks for the help.

2 weeks later
#15 6 years ago

Took a little break from this to work on some other games. The game plays and scores points. I have some score reel issues, I'm hoping I can figure those out on my own. The biggest issue now is, it won't advance balls. The game lasts forever. I cleaned both trough switches. It just keeps putting a new ball in play. any suggestions?

#16 6 years ago
Quoted from Shredso:

it won't advance balls. The game lasts forever. I cleaned both trough switches. It just keeps putting a new ball in play. any suggestions?

Check this circuit

Pinball (resized).pngPinball (resized).png

1 week later
#17 6 years ago

As soon as I start a game, the ball index relay locks on. is that normal?

#18 6 years ago

I stink at repairing EMs bump. I would like to understand how to find out if it's normal that the relay locks on at the start of a game. I still don't fully understand these schematics.

#19 6 years ago

No, it should not lock on.

#20 6 years ago

Hi Shredso
You do not talk about the Lock-Relay - You say that the Ball-Index-Relay pulls-in right away. See the first JPG - "encircled green" is allowed to be "as drawn in the schematics". The fault must be in one of the "encircled red switches" ---
The easyest to check is the "Switch on Ball-Index-Relay" - the so-called "Self-Hold-Switch on the Relay". Toggle-off, unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons) - from the Coil on the Ball-Index-Relay runs a short wire to "Switch mounted on the Relay" - THIS switch please inspect - truely open when the relay is not pulling ? A drop of solder or a doghair crap of wire fallen there making faulty connection on the solder-lugs on the switch ?
The next switch to check --- actually THREE switches - on the 1-Point-Relay, on the 10-Point-Relay and on the 100-Point-Relay is a switch (so three switches to check). Truely open when the relay(s) not pulling ? Drop of solder ? Doghair crap of wire ?

Here http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=764&picno=57560 --- I show in the second JPG "encircled red" the Ball-Trough-Switch --- Truely open when no ball rolls over ? Drop of solder ? Doghair crap of wire ? Greetings Rolf

08-Ball-Work-01 (resized).jpg08-Ball-Work-01 (resized).jpg

0ipdb-picture-8-ball-image-40 (resized).jpg0ipdb-picture-8-ball-image-40 (resized).jpg

#21 6 years ago

Some of the labels are gone from the relays. Is there a map or something so I can tell what is what?
I'm not sure if I adjusted something, or if I didn't realize at first. The ball index relay does not lock on until the ball trough switch is hit.

#22 6 years ago
Quoted from Shredso:

Some of the labels are gone from the relays. Is there a map or something so I can tell what is what?
I'm not sure if I adjusted something, or if I didn't realize at first. The ball index relay does not lock on until the ball trough switch is hit.

Here's part of it
http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=764&picno=57566&zoom=1

#23 6 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi Shredso
You do not talk about the Lock-Relay - You say that the Ball-Index-Relay pulls-in right away. See the first JPG - "encircled green" is allowed to be "as drawn in the schematics". The fault must be in one of the "encircled red switches" ---
The easyest to check is the "Switch on Ball-Index-Relay" - the so-called "Self-Hold-Switch on the Relay". Toggle-off, unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons) - from the Coil on the Ball-Index-Relay runs a short wire to "Switch mounted on the Relay" - THIS switch please inspect - truely open when the relay is not pulling ? A drop of solder or a doghair crap of wire fallen there making faulty connection on the solder-lugs on the switch ?
The next switch to check --- actually THREE switches - on the 1-Point-Relay, on the 10-Point-Relay and on the 100-Point-Relay is a switch (so three switches to check). Truely open when the relay(s) not pulling ? Drop of solder ? Doghair crap of wire ?
Here http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=764&picno=57560 --- I show in the second JPG "encircled red" the Ball-Trough-Switch --- Truely open when no ball rolls over ? Drop of solder ? Doghair crap of wire ? Greetings Rolf

I'm still not fully understanding the schematic. The way I read that section is, either the ball trough switch or points scored should energize the Ball Index Relay. Both of these things happen, but it stays energized and no action in the back box.

#24 6 years ago
Quoted from Shredso:

I'm still not fully understanding the schematic. The way I read that section is, either the ball trough switch or points scored should energize the Ball Index Relay. Both of these things happen, but it stays energized and no action in the back box.

A switch on the Outhole relay should de-energize the Ball Index relay when the motor gets to position 4D.

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