(Topic ID: 247485)

1966 Chicago Coin "Grand" Flair Big Ball Bowler Issue

By Yerfdog66

4 years ago


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  • 11 posts
  • 2 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Yerfdog66
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    #1 4 years ago

    My revival of the 1966 bowler is almost complete. My last major issue is that I'm getting an extra frame at the end of all the games. Not sure if it is an issue with the frame unit, 10th frame unit or what. Manually clicking/stepping through the frames it seems like it needs and extra click (11th frame) to get the game over. Any ideas where to look. This is my first bowler with multiple games (not just regulation bowling) and I know there is a 11th frame game but I don't think any of the games I have go beyond the 10th frame (except for 10th frame shoot again). Everything else seems to work correctly and score correctly. I also believe (I will verify) that you get the extra frame no matter if you get the 10th frame shoot again or not.

    #2 4 years ago

    I think I understand what you're saying. Even with a 10th Frame open, you still shot one more
    time before it goes to game over, so it doesn't seem it's the Extra Shot Step Up Unit..
    The machine is on the 1st frame at start up, right?
    I have a C.C. ball bowler set up, but not at home. I forget. Does the Frame Unit have a double
    wiper board?
    After start up, when you manually step up the Frame Unit, it takes two step ups to go from the 10th
    Frame to Game Over, right? I'm pretty sure the Game Over Relay energizes through the wiper board,
    but does the Frame Unit have a set of switches when the Frame Unit is maxed out?

    #3 4 years ago

    Thanks for helping!!!!!
    1. Actually the 10th frame light goes out and you bowl two more balls like a normal frame (excluding a strike) and the points actually count.
    2. The machine does start at frame one (it fires once at start up to move to frame one).
    3. I'm over thinking your question on double wiper board (double wiper or double board): It is a single board with nine wipers; one step per frame.
    4. Right it takes two steps on the frame unit to end the game after the 10th frame (hence I get the infamous 11th frame before game over)
    5. No just one switch when it resets.

    Also I don't think any of the games I have have the bonus/extra frame. My games are : Regulation, Red Pin, 200 or Under, Step Up, Flashomatic and Dual Flash.

    #4 4 years ago
    Quoted from Yerfdog66:

    I'm over thinking your question on double wiper board (double wiper or double board)

    Haha, actually the board is sometimes known as a wiper board..
    The Game Selection and Player Step Ups have double wiper and boards.
    I couldn't remember on the Frame Unit..

    Quoted from Yerfdog66:

    Actually the 10th frame light goes out and you bowl two more balls like a normal frame

    Okay, so you're saying that after the 9th frame, it steps up on frame 10 (and reads 10), and then play out frame 10,
    the Frame Unit steps up one step, the 10th frame light goes out, but yet you bowl as if it's in a normal frame,
    then the Game Over light come on..
    It may not seem likely, but is possible that the wiper board (board) is slightly off, but the wiper doesn't regonize it
    until it reaches the 11th step up.
    When in the 10th frame, I would check if the wiper is lined up squarely with the boards rivets.
    If not, the board can be loosened and slightly rotated the opposite direction that the wiper steps up..
    If the rivets are lined up, then we'll have to figure which of the rivets on the Frame Step Up wiper board
    energizes the Game Over Relay..

    #5 4 years ago
    Quoted from Mopar:Okay, so you're saying that after the 9th frame, it steps up on frame 10 (and reads 10), and then play out frame 10,
    the Frame Unit steps up one step, the 10th frame light goes out, but yet you bowl as if it's in a normal frame,
    then the Game Over light come on..

    Correct.

    Quoted from Mopar:

    When in the 10th frame, I would check if the wiper is lined up squarely with the boards rivets.
    If not, the board can be loosened and slightly rotated the opposite direction that the wiper steps up..
    If the rivets are lined up, then we'll have to figure which of the rivets on the Frame Step Up wiper board
    energizes the Game Over Relay..

    I checked the alignment and though it is barely off the center of the rivet they are all still making contact.

    However I may have found something from your last comment. I have a head from the same game from the next year that I am using for replacement parts ('66 was the Flair, '67 was the Vegas). The wiper (game over wiper) on the frame unit has three more rivet/contacts to go when the game gets to the 10th frame. Using an ohm meter all three contacts are electrically connected (on my parts head) however only the last two are connected on my working game (hence you have to go one more frame to get the game over). Can I assume one of the rats nest wires behind the frame unit wiper board may have come off? If I leave the game in the 11th frame and jump the two rivets the game ends as it should.

    #6 4 years ago
    Quoted from Yerfdog66:

    Can I assume one of the rats nest wires behind the frame unit wiper board may have come off?

    It's not very common, but a wire coming off the backside of a wiper board
    I had to repair before..
    Yes, I'd surely take the wiper and then board off and inspect the backside,
    but before doing that, I have marked (with a sharpie) the rivets the wiper
    blades are on when it's one step up past the 10th frame (where it should
    be when the game should end) so when inspecting the backside, the proper
    rivets for inspecting are easily found for loose or un-soldered wires..

    #7 4 years ago

    Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mopar.
    If you look closely at the picture you can see the connection between the three rivets/contacts and a wire jumper (center of picture). Though they look connected the rivet on the right was not making a connection with the other two. I re-soldered it and no more 11th frame; games ends as it should after the 10th frame. Must have been a bad solder joint that finally gave away.

    Thanks for helping,
    Yerfdog

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    #8 4 years ago

    Beautiful. Glad you found the issue..
    Grand Flair is a nice goose neck bowler.
    It has the more solid and lager score reels.
    Not till 1968 C.C. came out with the cheaper smaller ones..

    #9 4 years ago

    Mopar,

    I have what's known as a "Detroit" deck on my Flair (that's why it's a "Grand" Flair, the Grand is added with vinyl lettering on the outside of the back glass and not part of the silk screen). Story goes the dealer in Detroit had clout and they made a special one for him to sell. The ball roll over deck is actually a roll under. My pin switches are under the raised deck. The six inch ball with a thumb hole is very different than the standard big ball bowler ball and it is heavier. It is a blast to play. The rotating head also makes it so much easier to work on. Note: colors were changed from the original to match the back glass since it had been painted about six times (a few times by a blind person it seems).
    Thanks for your help and happy bowling.

    If anyone out there has a Grand Flair or even a Flair, I would be interested in seeing pictures of your bowler.

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    #10 4 years ago

    From all the multiple bowlers that I have/had, I never had a Grand Flair/Flair or a Bowling League.
    I'm not sure if they made other bowlers like Grand Fair in other years than 1966, but I'm pretty
    sure there's another title that uses the same under rollover system with the 6" balls..
    Is the Grand Flair a 20 footer? Looks like I see a 4' center section in the machine..

    #11 4 years ago

    The Flair is a seventeen footer. I have it pushed forward in that picture so I can get around the back to work on it so it might look longer. The Bowling Leagues are 15 (14'8") and 12 foot (they are small ball bowlers, skee ball size). Very different from big ball bowlers but still fun. The '67 version of the Flair was the Vegas (same game just different name and colors). I believe they only made two years with the six inch thumb hole ball. I think the bar patrons got a little to rowdy with the thumb hole ball. The front of my upper deck was destroyed from abuse. I actually like the Vegas colors better (Black, Red, Blue, and Gold). The head and lower ball return unit I'm using for parts are from a Vegas.

    Future light box project using the Vegas back glass.

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