(Topic ID: 190342)

1965 United Corral shuffle bowler

By Willillist

6 years ago


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  • 15 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Mopar
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    #1 6 years ago

    Hi All,

    I'm having an odd issue with a 1965 united Corral shuffle bowler I recently purchased. It resets and starts a game just fine but when you hit some pins up and move onto the next frame the strike zone lights disappear and when you look in the back of the machine a few of the pin relays didn't reset in the bank. Now if I goto the back of the machine and manually trip the relays for the pins to simulate them getting hit and then tap the rollover relay to start another frame the bank will reset just fine but not when you actually knock the pins up. I think it has to do with the game scorning the pins knocked up and resetting the relay bank at the same time almost seems like there is not enough voltage to handle it all. I did check voltage and everything seems fine(115volts). I have been scratching my head on how to fix this issue. I am on high voltage on the adjustment in the back of the machine.

    #2 6 years ago

    That has only one Bank Reset Coil, right? Had you already cleaned and adjusted the
    Bank Relay contact that runs off the score motor's cam? Also, I found out it to
    be a good idea to clean the bank reset bar and the relay plates where they both contact
    each other. I clean by putting a solvent (I use carb choke cleaner) on a small piece
    of scotch brite and cleaning both the bar and the relay plates, then after wiping
    off cleanly, I apply a lite grease so there's no friction (or grabbing) when the bar
    makes contact with the relay plates. Also, I clean the coil's plunger with Lemon
    Pledge which safely takes any stickiness away.. (T)

    #3 6 years ago

    I have done all of that already cleaned and lived the plates also cleaned the score motor switches pulling my hair out in this one relay bank won't reset only when the pins are up if you manually trip the relays they reset fine.

    #4 6 years ago

    Perhaps taking the plunger out of the coil and cleaning it along with
    its sleeve will help. The bar has a return spring right? Possibly it's been
    replaced with too strong of a spring. I'm sure you checked the pivot
    joints for excess sloppiness..
    And you said that you cleaned the bar and relay plates and applied
    a thin film of light weight grease to the bar..

    #5 6 years ago

    Yes I did all this already plunger is working smoothly and it does reset all relays if tripped manually it had something to do with the pins being up.

    #7 6 years ago

    Watch the reset bank while someone else pushes the start button.Test the hold coil on that relay to make sure it's getting electricity (it should NOT be 115v at that coil!). If the coil passes the check, move on...

    If you have some that aren't locking, look at the lock spring for that relay.

    If you can push the locking relay in manually and you know it works, it's probably a mechanical issue not an electrical one.

    1 month later
    #8 6 years ago

    Ok from what i can tell when the pins are knocked up and the reset coil goes to reset the bank because it does this before the pins are reset back down there is an electric pulse stopping the relays from resetting. It seems like the score motor should be resetting the pins before tripping the 115volt coil i have tried adjusting the score motor slightly and it completely messes up the rest of the play of the machine. This thing has been eating away at me for the last month i really need some assistance with this thing so i can finally have my garage back.

    #9 6 years ago
    Quoted from Willillist:

    It seems like the score motor should be resetting the pins before tripping the 115volt coil

    No, actually the Bank Relay Coil needs to reset the Bank Relays before the pins are in
    the totally reset position. The score motor fires the Pin Reset Relay before the Relay Bank
    Coil, but the Bank Relays reset before the pins get to its total reset position. If the pins
    totally reset before the Bank Relays did, then the Bank Relays would tell the pins to go up
    again.
    So if I remember correctly, the Bank Relay Coil energizes, but doesn't seem strong enough to
    reset all the relays, right? Not sure why it wouldn't, but did you check to make sure 115V are
    getting to the Coil? If so, and you lubed all of the banks pivot joints, maybe a weak coil..
    The reset bar has a return spring, correct? If the spring is taken off, does the coil reset the
    bank relays then?

    #10 6 years ago

    Thanks for the response the 115volt coil strong enough to reset everything if I trip the pin bank manually. It won't reset them only if the pins are up which I find very strange as for the bar it has been cleaned and greased and the return spring has no effect if it's on or off.

    #11 6 years ago

    When I knock a pin down there is a switch above the pin that tells the relay in the bank to trip if I put a something in between that switch(piece of paper) and then try and reset that pin it will do it no problem.

    #12 6 years ago

    Oh, on your machine the pins trip the relays. Yes, I forgot. On the earlier Uniteds, the relay tripped
    the pins. So with the machine reset, and you trip one of the pins manually, that corresponding relay
    in the bank will energize. Sorry, I knew of that set up, but forgot. For United, I've restore mostly
    the 50s Ball Bowlers..
    So now your figuring was right. As soon as a pin energizes its bank relay, a set of contacts in that bank relay
    opens which cuts the circuit to the relay so that it doesn't remain energized. So now, the pins do need to
    reset before the Bank Relay resets so that the pins contacts open before the Bank Relays closes.
    It must be that the Pin Reset motor is running slow. I believe that it's a 42 RPM motor. It may need to
    be taken apart, cleaned and regreased. But before you do that, you can try this. On the pin reset motor,
    the armature pulls in when energized, and back out when not energized. There's a small tail on the back of
    the armature that when looking carefully you can see pulling in when you manually push in the pin reset
    relay. When not energized, you can put a couple drops of light weight oil on that tail, then energize the motor.
    This may help give the motor its proper RPMs and help with the problem. I'd give that a quick shot first..

    #13 6 years ago

    Ok I will try that and report back.

    1 week later
    #14 6 years ago

    So from what I can tell the pin reset motor is moving just fine it has been greased and seems perfectly fin this damn bowler problem is eluding me for sure I'm out of ideas.

    #15 6 years ago

    Your Bowler requires for the pins to totally reset before
    the Relay Bank Resets. Is the pin reset motor 42 RPM?
    It should state on the pin reset motor label, (and schematic).
    If so, you can detach the push rod from the reset cam
    and run it for 30 seconds by holding in the pin reset relay
    and count the RPMs to see if its around 21 (or 42 for 60
    seconds). Maybe you can try that next..

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